The X Factor: Unleashing the Power of Deal Drive in the Sales Process

Celeste Berke [00:00:01]:

Welcome to the sales edge. This is Celeste. We're here here with Carl.

Carl Ferreira [00:00:05]:

I missed it. You missed it. Pereira. Yes. nailed it.

Celeste Berke [00:00:11]:

Ferrera. So that's the case in point. If you do not have your voice pronunciation, which I think you do on your LinkedIn profile, put it there. Those names are tough. Names are tough, but I'm so excited to to to chat with you today. We were just chatting behind the scenes. Imagine getting a DM from Chris Walker, Mister LinkedIn himself, who basically blew LinkedIn up post COVID, with his podcast and his way of sharing content, getting a DM car all saying, come join my team. So as we talk about on this podcast, awesome sales leaders who are in the space doing amazing things with teams, and we wanna know, how did you get there? What is your sales edge? So we'd love to hear from you. What is your unique factor?

Carl Ferreira [00:00:57]:

That's a big question there, Celeste. Thanks for having me. what is my edge? What is my x factor? I think there's so many things you have to do well in a deal. Right? Deals are, super complex, managing lots of folks, lots of personality, lots of motivations, your own inter your own internal pressures and shortcomings, right? Am I a quota? Am I not? What is the business need? Is this a good fit customer, how good of a fit. So, you know, sales is really about being able to manage all of these things super well. Keep a calm head. And The X factor that is mine, and I believe is the X factor for companies that I consult, etcetera, is what I call deal drive. Let me define that. think my x factor is deal drive, and I would define deal drive as it's like a I don't wanna say, like, it's it's like gravity. It's like, you know that Soles, there's a force inside of a deal that moves it forward. Right? And it's not like booking the next meeting because you could book a lot of meetings and actually go nowhere in a sale. you could do a lot of demos, but you're still early stage in a deal. Right? So there's like this invisible force that actually drives towards a decision, whether it's a yes or no. Both of those are are are are positive outcomes. Okay. And I think that's my x factor. is being able to stay on course with does every sales activity actually drive the deal materially forward or closer to a decision. Because if you don't manage or leveraged deal drive trademarked. just kidding. Then you just, like, you were on sales cycles. You'll lose them. You're not sure why. They'll take too long. You'll do a whole bunch of extra activity and shit, meet new people inside the organization, and add complexity to the deal that doesn't need to exist for the sake of making a decision and getting to a decision, which is the end goal.

Celeste Berke [00:03:03]:

Yeah. So I I I love that term that you have Deal Drive. I think in from a a a gap selling perspective, we call it that next yes. and and most people think it's sales activity. Right? I'm gonna do this one thing. I'm gonna send this. And for you, it comes from that internal what is happening in this deal to keep moving it forward? What is that next micro, right, agreement something you have to send. They have to get it information share to keep this deal alive, so it doesn't flicker out. So where do you think you came up with the name Deal Drive?

Carl Ferreira [00:03:38]:

I don't know. I made it up for this podcast.

Celeste Berke [00:03:42]:

The trademark is coming. He's he's buying the domain. He's buying the domain right after this.

Carl Ferreira [00:03:47]:

paperwork's been filed. I don't know where it is. I don't even know if I wanna name it that. I've played with a lot of names related to, like, physics, you know, because again, it is this invisible force. that I think pulls or pushes a deal towards, again, a decision. But, that's I don't know where I got the name, but you're absolutely right. Like, a next activity, a next step doesn't actually mean that we got closer, materially closer to a decision. And I think a lot of frameworks and gurus out there, it they imply that even if they don't say Right? I'll I'll give you an example. A lot of sellers after discovering will just, like, say, like, cool. Well, the next step is a demo. And I always like, especially with my consulting customers. I'm always like, is that the next step, though? Like, is is that the right decision? It may be. And most of the times, it, like, is, especially in maybe, you know, a mid market, try to transactional sale. Right? You go from a discovery to demo to proposal to close. It's kind of like a 2 to 3 call sale. But I always wanna, like, who said that a demo is the right next step. It's an assumption, you know, and, like, how are we defining what is best. And I think the best sellers are thinking outside of the box saying, hey. No. Maybe like a discovery part 2 is actually a better fit for call too because that will better advance the deal. I can bring in more stakeholders to have a deeper business conversation because a lot of times I found that the buyer doesn't suggest a demo in the next step. You you get some aggressive buyers, especially the ones on LinkedIn who are like, I'm gonna see a demo on the first call. But I found that in true consultative sales where there is a considered purchase, buyers actually, they don't. They're like, Carl, you, like, what do I do next? Like, you're you've been a very compelling first call. I'm interested. I need to bring in my VP, Celeste. I need to bring in my CRO, Jim, And we need to figure out, like, and go deeper here. The answer is not a demo. It's to go deeper. And maybe we will show some of the product. During the services business, maybe we'll take a deeper dive in the second part of that call into the services a little bit more, right, of what it looks like to solve for the business challenges that we've uncovered and the gaps that we've identified, which are much wider than the buyer initially thought. And so, again, deal drive takes all those things into account and makes the best decision on the fly in the context of this opportunity. for the buyer so that they can make a decision and not just get the next piece of information, which is typically worthless.

Celeste Berke [00:06:21]:

Right. So it's it's all that undefined information that you uncover during that discovery that, you know, we we can't move forward. It's not in our best interest or the buyer's best interest to move forward without this information. It may come from a third party. It may come from the stats. You need an NDA. I mean, whatever it is, And I think what's really interesting, and I love to know before we move to our final or second question that we do on this podcast, I see so many people, companies, sales leaders who are still in this place of, I heard someone straight out of college, they we give them a script. You know, this is the disco, and then they're onto onto the demo, and then it goes to proposal, and then the pipeline is just all f's up because It's like nobody has eyes on any of it because they're not following this, like, intuitive process of wait a sec. I don't have this information. That person wasn't on the call. This might be needed. What about this new piece of information? How do you work with your team at Refined Labs for this, like, consultative approach to, like, a a gut instinct

Carl Ferreira [00:07:27]:

Yep.

Celeste Berke [00:07:28]:

In their sales conversations.

Carl Ferreira [00:07:31]:

As well, I mean, it's it's destroying assumptions. The assumptions that have to do every sale like this. And this is like the misconception. This comes from like, oh, we have a sales playbook. Yeah. I'm fine with a playbook, but, like, every sales a little bit different. You can't assume that they're all gonna be the exact same, right, even like in HubSpot. Right? It's an assumption that the deal stages are so nice and neat and linear. Oh, that's what I must the next step is the next stage in my pipeline. No. It's not. Right? That's just how your CRM is structured. That's not how a deal is structured at all. Deal's ebb and flow. They're like a dance. Right? They advance and they come back and new people are introduced and new business challenges are uncovered and priorities change because There was an off-site halfway between your deal and now where there's new information on the direction of the business. So to what I train my team is to, like, stop making dumb assumptions and ask in real time what is the right step based on the information that I have to take next. And if I don't have all the information to take that next step, then I gather it. I don't feel pressure to move to a next step because it's the thing I need to do without getting the information I need. And I always tell my team, like, what's under the table with this buyer. Get it above the table. Ask the hard questions. What happens now if we do this? What reservations what concerns. I wanna get all that stuff so I can resolve concerns and advance their actual conversation towards a decision. So I just train my team again. to answer your question in a in an extremely long winded way. Like, stop with the assumptions. And that takes a while to beat that out of your head because we've been trained for forever. Right? It's their whole careers. We carry these assumptions with us. And so it's like a really an unlearning process. that says, no. That doesn't have to be the next step. And it'll and allowing your team the liberty to screw up and make a decision on the fly in a deal that maybe isn't the right one. That's okay. I'd rather you you, like, eradicate the assumptions than make a chess move that wasn't the right one. Cool. We can revisit that coach to it. I'd rather create a flexible mindset than a rigid mindset that says, boom boom boom boom. These are the deals. This is the stage. This is has to be nothing in sales has to be anything. So

Celeste Berke [00:09:55]:

-- And that usually that usually stems from this, like, cloud that's hanging over all of our heads of, like, this is a sale. And if I this is my quota, and this is what the deal size is and kind of pushing that out of the way, and, like, we're in a conversation. Right? I'm gonna, I'm gonna take all the outcomes off the table. It's about, you know, establishing yourself as an expert and providing value to your buyer and asking questions that really set you apart from everybody else.

Carl Ferreira [00:10:23]:

Your consultants. Yeah. Exactly. Like, I want more buyers to walk away from my calls and be like, I would have paid money for that. I would have paid Carl's consulting fee. for that time. When you have that frame, your that your sales conversations totally change when you're like, what it was I worth on a discovery call? early in your career, you're worthless. Right? But as you you're just like a qualifier. Right? You're just going through your questions, right, your banter, your music, or whatever your framework is, right, your spice, your spicy, whatever your your your

Celeste Berke [00:10:55]:

SPIN, your who who knows what'll come next Right.

Carl Ferreira [00:10:58]:

But one from HubSpot is wild. You'll have to Google it. It's like 40 letters long. But as you mature and you're like, okay, now more $50. an hour. Okay. I'm worth a $100 an hour. Oh, now my the experience and the the breath of knowledge that I bring and insight I bring to calls is worth 5, $600 an hour. It doesn't matter where you are. You shouldn't feel shame, but are you moving towards being like, a a lot of people, like, throw it out there. Like, who would want comp to be a consultative seller? I'm a consultative seller. This is like, but your proxy for measuring that should be would somebody pet paid you for that time. And that really elevates, like, your frame of quality for that. And so I, again, encouraged my sellers to think in that way. Move your consulting fee in your sales process up quarter over quarter and eventually get to a point where I mean, it's masterful. People are like, dang. I wanna talk to you more and deals advance faster And there's a lot of great outcomes that that, you know

Celeste Berke [00:12:00]:

-- Damn. I'm sure a lot of people who will listen to this are like, oh, I need Carl. It's my leader. Right?

Carl Ferreira [00:12:07]:

Let's go. Hey. I'm available to fractionally tell your leaders, come hire me and select. So

Celeste Berke [00:12:13]:

-- Alright. So deal drive, that's where we're going.

Carl Ferreira [00:12:17]:

k.

Celeste Berke [00:12:17]:

We need to be listening to more from you on that as as you educate us all on just like consultative selling approach, but also so many myths. I mean, you log on to LinkedIn, and it's, even I, I get flooded with all these people. Like, scaling and doing well and AEs and SDRs need to do this and teams and the sales cycle and conversion. I mean, it's it's a lot of noise coming at you. and there's a lot of either misinformation or we are just changing so rapidly that things need to be challenged because we can't continue to do the way that we've done business. Insert. Whatever AI. I don't even know what the next thing is.

Carl Ferreira [00:12:59]:

Yep.

Celeste Berke [00:12:59]:

So we talk about sales myth. So I want to hear from you this concept around sales mess. What's something that you either believe to be true or don't that you implement? day to day in your world.

Carl Ferreira [00:13:11]:

Jeez. So many myths, Celeste. What a question. Yeah. I mean, I'll I'm gonna give you 2 myths. 1 of them is gonna be insanely brief, and then I'm gonna dive into my second myth. The first

Celeste Berke [00:13:21]:

myth -- And the myth isn't that Carl can't wear that shirt, because let me tell you. That's a bold that's a bold move. So all the mists out there that you can't wear bold shirts, that's out the window.

Carl Ferreira [00:13:32]:

watercolor, flowery polo. It's this is this is the real deal. Right? With a hat, long hair, is he homeless? We're not sure. So, yes, thank you. But first myth is that that will be brief, but then I'll go to the more important myth. So I gotta get 2 out of the way because you mentioned it. You mentioned LinkedIn and how many there are. And I think the myth related to LinkedIn is that there is one way to do stuff. And that's what is implied in a lot of these posts. right? Don't do this. Do this. It's like everything has worked at least once. Right? And so I think the myth is just like, that I have to do it this way or not. And I again, with my sales team, I try to eradicate that. Sales is chess. sales is a dance between 2 partners. Right? It's it's it's dynamic. It's collaborative. It and it can change depending on the movement or the chess moves of the other party. Right? Okay. So I'll shut up about that one. Wanted to get that one out. The the myth that I see harms at least my customers and a lot of salespeople that I chat with is the myth that staying on the theme of deal drive is that gathering information advances a deal. So an example is Vance. medic, med pick, spice, blah blah blah. Right? A lot of these are information gathering frameworks. And the assumption is that, well, if I gather these things, I'll get me closer to closing a deal. It's totally false, especially in a cons in a consultative sales, you know, motion or environment. Right? I can get here's an example, Celeste. I have budget for a lot of things. I am not committed to buying -- Yeah.

Celeste Berke [00:15:14]:

--

Carl Ferreira [00:15:14]:

any income. Right? I have budget for a nicer car. I drive a Dodge Ram. Right? I have budget for new clothes. I wear this shirt every day. Right? And so, like, to gather that bit of information, Celeste, hey. Do you have budget for this is, like, they could very easily say, yes, or say, my budget is $50 or, yeah, we can find the budget That doesn't answer the most important. That doesn't advance the opportunity. So the myth is that gathering, are you the authority? Do you have a timeline? every buyer has these things. Every human has these things to a to a degree that has nothing so less to do with a commitment. So changing your mind away from gathering information that I plug into the CRM because my RevOps team needs me to do this for forecasting purposes. And I I got the economic buyer and I got the pricing and I got how the deal gets done and everything that you need at for medic. it doesn't advance a deal. It's information. And a sale doesn't happen with the passing of information. It happens with the exchange of commitments, mutual commitment, So, again, I push my team to think less about gathering information and more about gaining and gathering commitments budget. I have a budget. But am I committed to solving my pest control problem? Yeah. Or my revenue leakage problem or my discovery problem or my top of funnel SDRs can't book book meetings for shit problem. I have budgets for all those things. but am I committed to solving them? That's very, very different. Am I committed to investing the money that I have and my time and energy to implementing this xyznew thing to solve for this. Those are 2 very different lines of questioning and conversations. And so I wanted to debunk that myth. Your information gathering is worthless. Commitment gathering is where big deals are done and accomplished.

Celeste Berke [00:17:10]:

Yeah. Definitely. And I and we harp on that as well. Right? It's the budget goes out the window. Right? If if you're solving a big enough problem, if there's a big enough gap, if there's a huge impact to an organization, even for ourselves personally. I mean, you talk about the Jodge Ram. I drive 2011. 2011. Do the math here, people. Nissan Rogue. This past February. it's fully, you know, was fully paid off within the first couple of years. This past February slid down a hill into a delivery truck, like, bang the crap out of the side of my car.

Carl Ferreira [00:17:41]:

Dang.

Celeste Berke [00:17:42]:

Have I got it fixed? No. I live in a dry climate. Like --

Carl Ferreira [00:17:46]:

Yep.

Celeste Berke [00:17:46]:

-- we're not getting any, like, rest issues here. I literally drive five miles a week or a day, five miles a day. Take my kids to school. Sometimes I pick her up. Like, I don't drive the car. I work from home. We have another car. So it is not a big enough problem for me to solve, especially in this economy, to go out and buy a new vehicle. Do I have the budget for it? Sure. Do you wanna spend it? No. So they think, you know, case and point there is as buyers ourselves when it comes to anything personal we do. We go through this whole process. because it's a change management process. Right? Do I have a problem? Am I committed to solving that problem? Do I actually want to do it? And am I willing to do it with you? But then when we get in this seller's seat, we totally forget that the buyer is going through that same thing, and we have to show them, like, this change management process. So I love that you're taking this approach with your team. I think there's so much opportunity out there for others to take a step back and, like, let's have a human side of selling. So any parting words here as we go, we like to keep this short and sweet.

Carl Ferreira [00:18:51]:

I know. And I've taken it, like, super long and sour. No. I appreciate you for having me. Celestus has been awesome. And, if anyone has questions or anything, like, reach out, talk about been selling, consultative selling. I think I've taken you long enough here. I super appreciate you.

Celeste Berke [00:19:07]:

Yeah. And I would also say, you know, definitely follow Carl, I was so impressed, but we connected. I sent you a t shirt. It's actually this one.

Carl Ferreira [00:19:16]:

It is that one. I've got my

Celeste Berke [00:19:17]:

own name. You're selling when you're selling, you're not selling. the same thing about this, like, commitment culture and this consultative selling, but I also love seeing what you're doing on LinkedIn because you're not just throwing out, like, statistics and things that can be done better. You're, like, challenging the status quo and sharing insights and challenging other people and it's always fun to see. I know you call it, like, some trolling, but from really a genuine place. So we'll have your information linked here. I hope you this sparks a few more conversations and, you know, as Refined Labs continues to grow, sounds like you're a leader. Many people will be hitting up. So I truly appreciate your time. Thanks so much for being here. We will see you in 1 year from now on a next step so.

Carl Ferreira [00:20:03]:

Put it on the calendar.