Greg Lawrence on Psychedelics: A Guide to Safe and Transformative Experiences 2

Welcome to another enlightening episode of the Transforming Lives panel podcast, hosted by Sharmin Prince and Mitzi Dadoun. Today, we delve into the transformative world of psychedelics with our special guest, Greg Lawrence. Greg is a Certified Psychedelic Integration and Life Coach, NLP Master Practitioner, and HNLP Master Coach, who guides individuals through profound experiences to foster lasting change. In this episode, Greg shares invaluable insights on the potential and precautions of using psychedelics for personal growth, especially for those who have found traditional therapies like CBT and DBT ineffective. He discusses the emotional journey psychedelics can trigger, the importance of integration, and the role of neuroplasticity in creating new pathways for change. Whether you're curious about microdosing or seeking a deeper understanding of psychedelic experiences, this episode offers a wealth of knowledge and practical advice. Join us as we explore the possibilities and responsibilities that come with these powerful substances.

Speaker 3
Welcome to another episode of the Transforming Lives panel podcast. I'm one of your hosts, Sharmin Prince.

Speaker 2
And I'm your other host, Mitzi Dadoun.

Speaker 3
And before we continue, just join us in a deep breathing exercise so that we can be centered and grounded together for the next 45 minutes by taking a deep breath in and out. Deep breath in and out. Take a deep breath in. And as you exhale, let go of everything that didn't serve you today.

Another deep breath in and out. and breathe normally. Thank you for joining us in that brief breathing exercise. Today, our guest is Greg Lawrence, who is a Certified Psychedelic Integration and Life Coach, NLP Master Practitioner, and HNLP Master Coach.

He guides individuals through transformative experiences, helping them integrate insights and create lasting change. Greg, welcome. Is there anything you would like to add to your bio?

Speaker 1
No, I think you covered it pretty well. Thank you.

Speaker 3
Thank

Speaker 1
you.

Speaker 3
Let's say there is a listener who is considering psychedelics because of childhood traumas that CBT, DBT, none of those have been able to help. What would be your encouragement to them?

Speaker 1
Well, I wouldn't necessarily encourage, because the first thing I'll tell anyone who asks me is that psychedelics are not for everyone. So I'll tell you a question that's asked in a lot of the government-sanctioned studies around psychedelics. You know, there are many, many studies going on where colleges and universities and laboratories and what have you are studying the effect of psychedelics for various reasons. And in those studies, when you apply, they'll often ask you a question to the effect of, I would like you to remember your least favorite psychological state from the past few months, and I would like you to ask yourself if you're willing to have that amplified five to

ten times, because that's a distinct possibility. So people should remember, there's a lot of rhetoric around psychedelics about there's no such thing as a bad trip or methods and techniques and things, but in our lives, we can have some very strong negative feelings sometimes, things that are very painful for us. Those things can be replicated during psychedelics. In fact, one of the things that I believe psychedelics do is they are largely feeling and emotion generators.

And when someone comes to me and they say, I don't know what's wrong. I just don't feel very well. Something doesn't feel good inside of me. They're often a little bit numb.

They don't have many ups and downs because there are a lot of emotions stuck inside them. And human beings are, you want an analogy, it's like having a closet where you think you can just throw all of your junk. Eventually you're gonna end up holding the door shut because if you let it go, things are gonna come flying out. This is what's happening inside of us.

We have incomplete experiences within us. So emotions are like everything else in this universe. They have a life cycle. They are born, they are felt and experienced, and then you can say they transform, die, however you'd like to put it.

The difference between most things and emotions is that they can go halfway and we can say, I don't like that. I don't want to feel it. And when we do that, it goes inside of us. And then it spends a lot of time trying to be felt because that's its life cycle.

So it wants to come out. Well, we have programmed ourselves not to feel those emotions and we keep them down. And even if we try, sometimes we can't feel them. Psychedelic substances have a way of tapping into us, once they're taken, and saying, you know, this person has a lot of X emotion, whatever that might be.

They need to feel it. And they will push a button to have you feel that emotion so that it comes out of you. In order for it to come out of you, you have to feel it, and that can be unpleasant. This is something very important that people should know before they engage with a psychedelic substance.

They should also know that anyone with a history of bipolar disorder or psychosis of any kind in their family could make that an undesirable experience. In fact, if you have a psychosis diagnosis or you have an immediate family member who's been diagnosed with psychosis, this can bring up that if it's latent in you. So it should probably be avoided or it should somewhat proceed with extreme caution. The same thing for people with bipolar disorder because it can facilitate manic periods, periods of mania.

So there's always a caution around psychedelics. And I'd also tell them that they're probably reading all of the rave reviews about psychedelics and the things that they do and don't do. And all of those studies you read about, as I mentioned earlier, have a significant therapeutic component before or afterwards. And you mentioned people who come to psychedelics when therapy hasn't worked.

There's a saying people say, psychedelics are like five years or 10 years of therapy in one night. Well, I will tell you that it's not uncommon for people who've been in therapy to take a psychedelic substance and suddenly understand what their therapist has been trying to tell them for years that just wasn't getting in. I think having therapy in your past is a very helpful thing to have if you're going to engage with a psychedelic substance. But yeah, I don't especially encourage, I'm a harm reduction advocate and I think people should be armed with as much information as possible.

And if someone's never taken a substance, I would tell them that you should probably have someone with you the first time just in case you need help. And it wouldn't hurt to dip your toe in the water first with something like breath work or possibly with a low dose of cannabis to see how you react to these things.

Speaker 3
I appreciate what you just said and I love the disclaimer that you shared. I was reading there's micro dosing. Is that an option? If someone might have used cannabis in the past and it didn't work, so would micro dosing of the magic mushrooms be a good start?

Speaker 1
for some. Microdosing, again, is not for everyone. I will say, and a lot of people won't like this, I will say there is so far no scientific proof that the effect that we get from microdosing is not due to placebo effect. A lot of people don't like that.

That doesn't mean that it doesn't work. That just means that so far in scientific studies, people who thought they were microdosing by taking a placebo also reported very good effects that they thought were favorable. So there's just no proof scientifically, objectively. Those two experiences are quite different.

Microdosing is, for the most part, a sub-perceptual experience. So I take generally 1 10th to 1 20th of what's considered a psychoactive dose. And a psychoactive dose is just the dose at which I start to have an altered experience. And when I take 110th to 120th, I might or might not notice anything happening.

I might just feel good, better, or not as bad, or I might completely forget that I have microdose. So it doesn't give you a feel or a preview of a psychedelic experience. And if you didn't know that the two substances were the same, you might think they were something completely different.

Speaker 3
Wow.

Speaker 2
When you do a psychedelic, like how long does the psychedelic experience occur for it? Like if somebody takes it, is it like typically like a 15 minute effect, a six hour effect or like?

Speaker 1
Well, there are very short acting psychedelics like DMT, dimethyltryptamine. And that is a psychedelic that works immediately once it's inhaled and it will last somewhere between 15 to 90 minutes, but usually 15, 30 minutes or so. And then you're pretty much back to baseline. Something like psilocybin or magic mushrooms last from typically the fireworks are four hours or so, about six hours or so.

It's about the length of the experience. The same thing with some, excuse me, something like ayahuasca. LSD on the other hand, because of the way it interacts with the receptor in our brain can last 10 to 14 hours. But for most psychedelics, you're talking about somewhere between four to eight hours.

Speaker 2
It's quite a long experience.

Speaker 1
Yeah, it's not a short experience.

Speaker 2
And in preparing somebody for it, so when you're meeting with somebody before who's thinking about doing it, obviously you've talked now about some of the cautions and things. Is there discussion or whatever as far as like I don't know how to phrase it, like sort of like what it feels like to be on a psychedelic or like, and is that wildly different for every person or are there certain aspects of it that are fairly common?

Speaker 1
It is wildly different for people, but it is not uncommon to have a lot of reactions in your body. So where Charmin was talking about the way that she treats her thoughts when they come up, we try to realize that things are going to happen, but we don't have to especially be in them. that we're going to have thoughts in our brain and feelings in our body to remember that we've taken a substance to actually feel what's going on. And one of the most important things is not to resist something that's unpleasant because one of the lessons of the psychedelic experience is this thing is happening right now and you're uncomfortable.

If you think that not wanting it to happen is going to stop it, it's going to show you that that's something you do in your life all day long that is helping your level of unhappiness to increase. Because I don't like what's happening or what's about to happen, and somehow I have this idea that if I telepathically broadcast that I don't like it, maybe it won't happen or it will happen less. The only thing that's going to happen is that I'm going to engage in the process of not liking it. So, there are discussions about, to answer your question Mitzi, yes, there are discussions about harm reduction, about how there might be discomfort, and what you might do about that.

We talk about intention, because people usually come to this looking for something, and there's a way of sharpening that down to an intention. That's for you. That's what goes in your unconscious mind. That has something to do with what's going to happen with you later.

It's not always clear at the time. There's also a discussion of what the person is trying to get from this and what they can do if things come up for them.

Speaker 3
And so that's the pre. Now after for the post and the integration, is it Is there a timeframe after the experience that you meet with them? Or are you present during the experience to help them integrate?

Speaker 1
Well, I'm not present during the experience. Integration will happen afterwards. And sometimes people find me online and they come to me. Sometimes people had some experience months ago and they're still unsure about it or something, and they want to talk to someone.

But if someone were to ask me what were an ideal time, I would say within two, three days of the experience. Because one of the after effects of psychedelics is there is a high level of neuroplasticity with most psychedelics. That is a chemical environment that makes it easier to forge new neural pathways. you know, to create new habits and patterns and ways of being and thinking and to strengthen those.

So there is fertile ground for that after a psychedelic experience. And that can last anywhere from, you know, a couple of weeks to maybe 40 days in some cases. And that is the ideal time to try to make any changes you might be trying to make. And I want to stress that people don't have to make any changes if they don't want to, but if they do, that makes it an ideal time to engage as soon as possible after the experience.

Speaker 3
Okay. Okay.

Speaker 2
So can you give an example of like somebody who came to you, wanted to work out something and like sort of walk us through, like you gave us, you know, an example of yourself, but maybe another, you know, client obviously with no names or anything like that, but just to kind of guide us through what an experience was like for someone like that they were trying to deal with or something.

Speaker 1
Okay, I can tell you about a young man from the Midwest. And this young man, had grown up in the same small town all his life. And he was attractive, he was smart, he was very athletic, he did well in school. And if you moved to that town, he's probably one of the people that you wanted to meet.

He was a mover and shaker in that area. And when he decided to go to college, he wanted to study kinesthesiology. Now, first of all, only about half of the people he graduated high school with went to college because the others went to work on farms or family businesses. And his state college, where all of his friends went, didn't have the classes he wanted.

So he went out of state and he went to another college in a much larger town. And it only took him a couple of days until he realized, oh my God, I don't have any friends. Nobody knows me. I'm kind of a small fish in a big pond now.

And I have no idea how to make friends or what to do or say because I'm kind of out of place in this city. This is not the kind of environment I grew up in. And within a few days of that realization, he befriended someone who he started hanging around with. And this guy told him, Hey, I want you to meet my group of friends.

I'll introduce you. He said, those guys were great. They would introduce me at all their friends and they joke around with me. And, you know, we hung out and after a couple of weeks they said, Hey, we're going to the field to do, going to the forest to do magic mushrooms this weekend.

You want to go? And he said, and I'd done mushrooms a couple of times. So I went with them. And I took mushrooms.

And within about an hour, I realized these are terrible people. They are borderline racist. They are misogynist. And they're not introducing me to their friends.

They're making fun of me. They're joking around with me, is actually talking about me like I'm some kind of hick from the sticks. And I had to get out of there. And he had been freaked out since then.

And he said, I need to have that experience again. I found someone who's going to guide me through it. Can you help me with it? And when he had the experience, he saw that although he had been popular all of his life, he really didn't think he was that good of a person.

He thought that people liked him for who he was in the town and not his actual real personality. So he had to do a lot of inner reflection, a lot of looking himself. And he had to do a lot of shadow work. He had to look at the parts of himself that he didn't like.

And I'll say here that shadow work is often misunderstood. It's not all the dark parts of you. Shadow work is also the parts of you that you don't think that you are. You don't think you're a good person.

You don't think that you're talented. You don't think that you're nice. That's also shadow work. So that young man had to do a lot of work of looking at himself as a person for the first time in his life.

and realizing that he had sort of taken for granted the fact that he was popular and never really learned to like himself. He was listening to other people's opinions.

Speaker 2
That was great. That helped really understand sort of the process.

Speaker 1
It was sort of an unusual experience, but it's one of my favorites. I mean, it shows us I mean, had he not been, had he not taken that substance, first of all, he might be hanging around with people who really weren't good for him because he so badly wanted to have friends. And that was where he was really beating himself. Am I, you know, he came to me the first thing, am I so pathetic that I'm just hanging around with anybody and let them treat me like shit?

Pardon my French.

Speaker 3
So Greg, thank you so much. Before we end, I love to do some rapid fire questions. Sure. And my first question is psychedelics, NLP, meditation.

If you could only keep one, which one would it be and why?

Speaker 1
Oh goodness, it would probably be NLP because NLP helped me solve the puzzle of why a behavior comes out of me when something happens outside of me. And that was a question that dogged me for many years. So I now understand what happens inside of me that makes a particular reaction or behavior come out. And that's been very valuable.

Speaker 3
Great. What's a red flag someone isn't actually ready to change?

Speaker 1
For me, it's when someone comes to me and they say that I'm at the end of my rope and this is my last chance. That's a person I would probably tell this might not be a good idea for you because there's no guarantee that there will be any change as a result of this.

Speaker 3
What's one word you delete from people's vocabulary to unlock transformation?

Speaker 1
I quite often tell people to cut down on using the word you and to use the word I more.

Speaker 3
Ooh, that's powerful. What's the most overrated self-help advice you hear?

Speaker 1
You have to love yourself before you can love someone else. I don't believe that at all. I believe that being in a relationship provides you with mirrors and an opportunity to see where you are triggered and where things are coming from and sort of a safe healing environment. So don't fall for the, you have to love yourself first trap.

Speaker 3
So Greg, what's a weird daily habit you swear by?

Speaker 1
I don't know if it's weird, but something that's very important to me is noticing things. And I got this from Ellen Langer, a professor of psychology at Harvard, who is highly underrated. She's been writing about mindfulness since the 70s. And Ellen Langer says the process of mindfulness is simply the process of noticing things.

and I'll tell you sort of a mind-boggling study she did. She took people who said they didn't like certain things, like impressionistic art and rap music, and exposed them to those things and said, I want you to tell me two or three things that you notice about that that you hadn't before. And most of the people in the study disliked the thing less or liked it more. So if I can notice things in my environment that will cut down on the amount of dislike I have for things, because I think that's probably the one weird habit.

I try to figure out what it is I don't like about something if I don't like it. But noticing things, I mean, there is art on my wall in front of me, and at any time, there's two or three of those things I can stop and see new details I haven't before. When you are noticing things, you are not on automatic pilot. You can't be.

Think about it. If you're driving the same way to work every day when you drive, there's a good chance that you're thinking about what you're gonna have for lunch. If you are driving on an unfamiliar dark road in the rain at night, you are probably paying attention, in which case you don't have time to think about what you're having for lunch tomorrow. So noticing things is very important to me.

Speaker 3
And that

Speaker 1
takes a lot of work to be present. You know, being present isn't as much work as you might think, but remembering to be present is very difficult.

Speaker 3
My final question.

Speaker 1
Sure.

Speaker 3
What's one thing our audience should do immediately after this episode?

Speaker 1
Well, I'm gonna give you what's called a recovery strategy, okay? If you are ever tipped into a state that you don't like, here's something that you can do to send multiple signals to your nervous system that there's nothing wrong outside of you. So it's important to note that this should be done when you feel that you're safe. What you do is first to relax the back of your tongue, so it's not against the roof of your mouth.

The back of my tongue is against the roof of my mouth in preparation to speak. It's almost defensive. And if I can't speak out loud, I start talking inside my head. So relaxing the back of your tongue cuts down on internal dialogue.

I'll then let my jaw relax if it's tense. Relaxing the jaw sends a signal to my vagus nerve, telling me everything is OK. I am going to make sure that my breath, my exhalation, is twice as long as my inhalation. That, once again, deepens my breath and tells my body there's nothing wrong.

Otherwise, I'd be breathing very rapidly in a shallow way. Then I'm going to let the muscles around my eyes relax until I realize that I can see things out to the side of me. And I might hold my hands up and realize that even though I'm looking forward, I can see things in the periphery of my vision. I'm now in peripheral vision.

So when there is a threat in front of me, I go into foveal vision and focus on the threat. So when my tongue is relaxed, my jaw is relaxed, my breathing is slowed down with a longer exhalation than inhalation, and I'm in peripheral vision, I'm sending four different signals to my nervous system that everything's okay right now. And if anyone who's done this probably feels a difference than before they did it. That's what we can use in a recovery strategy.

I don't like the state I'm in right now. At any time I can say, okay, I'm thinking about my thoughts. I'm going crazy and wanting the world to be different. I'm just going to stop right now and slow down.

get on my recovery strategy and see if I can slow down a bit.

Speaker 2
That's awesome, because I think for so many people, they get wrapped up in some anxiety or something like that. And just having something simple like this that they can use to calm themselves and, you know, take a breath, so to speak.

Speaker 1
Absolutely.

Speaker 2
Thank you so much, Greg. Can you please let everybody know how they can get in touch with you?

Speaker 1
Yeah, you can go to my website, which is at greglawrencecoach.com. And my email is greg at greglawrencecoach.com. Excellent. You can always find me on Facebook and Instagram.

Facebook, I'm Greg Lawrence. And on Instagram, I'm psychedelic underscore integration.

Speaker 2
Thank you so much, Greg.

Speaker 1
Thanks to both of you. It was a lot of fun.