Authentic Leadership Secrets: How Vulnerability Beats Ego and Drives Real Change t - Jennifer Jensen

In this power‑packed episode, hosts Sharmin Prince and Mitzy Dadoun sit down with Jennifer Jensen, leadership advisor, author of Developing Authentic Leaders, and certified Lumina Spark practitioner. Jennifer walks us through her “uncommon‑common‑sense” framework, shares real‑world tactics for de‑escalating conflict, and explains how vulnerability, empathy, and self‑awareness can transform teams—without burning out, inflating ego, or getting tangled in office politics.

Sharmin Prince
Welcome to another episode of the Transforming Lives panel podcast. I'm one of your hosts, Sharmin Prince.

Mitzy Dadoun
And I'm your other host, Mitzy Dadoun.

Sharmin Prince
And today, we have a guest. Jennifer Jensen. But before I introduce Jennifer, let's just take a few moments and become centered and grounded by taking a few deep breaths in and out. Another breath in and out.

Again, in and out. And on this inhale, think of the things that you wanna let go of that didn't serve you today. And on the exhale, just let it go. Again, in and let go of the to-do list and the things you have to do and just be present.

for the next 30 to 45 minutes with us. And breathe normally and join us again. And we wanna thank you for taking the moment just to take a few deep breaths. And please help me welcome our guest, Jennifer Jensen.

She's a leadership advisor dedicated to helping emerging leaders grow into their most authentic and effective selves. Through her coaching programs and tools like Lumina Spark, she empowers managers and directors to close leadership gaps and drive real change. Drawing from years of experience leading without formal authority, Jennifer is known for her practical, insightful approach. She's the author of Developing Authentic Leaders, where she shares her uncommon, common sense framework for leadership.

Today she's here to help us discover how to lead with authenticity, influence, and resilience without burnout, ego, or politics. Jennifer, welcome.

Jennifer Jensen
Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Sharmin Prince
OK, Jennifer. I love that phrase. on common common sense framework, because it's like the first time I've ever heard of it. So that's where I want to start.

Because when I heard it, I'm like, Oh, I love it. Can you just walk us through like one specific counter intuitive tactic from your book that myself, Mitzi, and our listeners can apply tomorrow.

Jennifer Jensen
So there's so much that I could go through, but I think one of the biggest things is our ability to understand who we are and why we respond the way we do. That's going to help us in any aspect of our lives and just being able to do small things, especially when you are reacting to a situation and it could be negatively or positively. But after the fact, take a step back and look at why did you react the way you do and how could you change that behavior going forward? And I've had to do this in my own life when dealing with a situation where the individual started to really get agitated and in my face.

And for me, I'm a little bit of a fighter. And so I had to take a step back, even when they started doing the name calling and go, no, calm yourself down, breathe, and let's change how we react. And that meant we're going to walk away from the situation until we are prepared to go and have that conversation face to face again. in a much more calm environment.

Sharmin Prince
Thank you. Is that the uncommon common sense framework?

Jennifer Jensen
Definitely. Because common sense and the approaches we would normally use aren't being used nowadays, and they haven't been taught or shown to a lot of individuals how to deal with situations.

Sharmin Prince
So can I say the, the, cause I, I just love the, the, the, the, the phrase our, or the title on common, common sense. It also helps us to deescalate emotionally charged situation and places in the right mindset to not allow our egos to take control, but to step back, put ourselves down, and then choose to revisit that situation later. Yes.

Mitzy Dadoun
You know, when you were talking about the situation and I was thinking of it, first sort of what popped into my mind, the approach that you were taking was in a sort of a more outside of work situation, a personal situation where there was some kind of a conflict. but also within a work environment, often maybe that conflict or that heated conversation is between a manager and a staff member or two staff members. And in a situation where it may be a manager and a staff person, and let's say the staff person is feeling attacked or whatever, how does somebody who's the junior to the other person initiate that, whoa, I need to stop and take a step back when they're, so

to speak, dealing with their boss or something like that. It's easy to see when it's the boss who needs to step back and saying that they need it, but how does the junior do that without it being disrespectful or getting off onto a different bad tangent?

Jennifer Jensen
The easiest way is to say, you know what, can we have a timeout right now? Cause I need to go and regain control and take a step back from this situation. Can we come back at a, in half hour or an hour to then come back and discuss. Cause you can, you have the right as an employee to do that and say, but you gotta be mature about it.

You can't be screaming at them. Just very calmly say, I really need a timeout right now.

Sharmin Prince
Thank you, Jennifer. Many experts talk about authentic leadership. And what I want to just oppose that, what is the most common, popular, well-mentioned piece of advice that we hear under that topic, authentic leadership? that you completely disagree with?

Jennifer Jensen
That's a really good question. I think the big thing that I hear is because being vulnerable is considered a weakness and that it shows that you don't have a backbone, but it actually does the exact opposite. And so when you are vulnerable, you are actually showing humility and that you can make mistakes. There is a line between being vulnerable and manipulative.

And so if you are going to be manipulative, you're going to cry and try and get your way. And it's your way instead of showing that you actually can make mistakes and you want your team to hold you accountable. Those are two very different things.

Sharmin Prince
I love that you mentioned that. You'd kind of differentiate the two, but can you go into that a little deeper? The difference between vulnerability and manipulation, because that is so key and important in authentic leadership.

Jennifer Jensen
Definitely. So manipulation, it could be starting to cry or trying to get people to do what you want and the way that you want to, and putting on guilt trips or just that whole manipulation piece that we're also used to. we don't actually name it. And then there's the vulnerability is actually asking for accountability to say, hey, I make mistakes and this is an area I'm weak in.

Can you help me to be better at what I'm doing? And it also allows your team to get to know you and start to have that comfort level to provide feedback. And so that creates a whole different dynamic on your team, because now they feel like they can be honest and truthful. And if they make mistakes, you're not going to berate them for it or make them feel guilty for it.

But you're actually going to support them and say, hey, how can I help you be better as well?

Sharmin Prince
Very

Mitzy Dadoun
I think that that's really such a great point, which is, you know, the leader within an organization or within teams or, you know, the management levels admitting that they too are human and that they too make mistakes and encouraging their team to come to them if they notice something and come to them with ideas and brainstorming. I mean, I've worked at, I've been self-employed for a long, long time, but way back when I was working in other organizations, you know, you'd really see that kind of difference between those leaders who would encourage people to Bring new ideas or if they saw a problem offer up solutions versus those ones that were.

very much it was my way or the highway

Sharmin Prince
or

Mitzy Dadoun
they weren't open to that. And it creates a very different working environment. So when you start working with a leader and they lean more towards the closed door policy versus the open door policy or the my way or the highway, how do you help guide them or what type of exercises do you do with them to help them adjust?

Jennifer Jensen
So a lot of it, I do self-awareness assessments through Lumina Learning so that they can truly understand who they are and why they respond the way they do. And I like them to do it with their team as well so that they can then start to understand their team dynamics and how by encouraging them to look at how their Each team member likes to be communicated with how they are, when they're comfortable or at work or when they're stressed so that they can better respond to that. And that starts to actually open their eyes to see that there's more to the door closed.

You need to open it up and start to build those relationships because that's what's gonna change and impact your, actually your bottom line. You're gonna actually become much more profitable in your department because of the fact that you're now opening up the innovation and creativity within your individuals because you now understand them. And by understanding ourselves, we can then understand our teams far more than we could before.

Sharmin Prince
Beautiful. What's the most difficult or difficult thing most challenging personal hurdle you've had to cross or overcome in coaching your clients?

Jennifer Jensen
For me as an individual, it's knowing what the answer is, but having to sit there and let that client figure it out. And I can tell them and share till I'm blue in the face until they actually have that light bulb moment and figure it out. They don't listen. And that's really where I've had to take a step back and go, okay, you gave them what they needed.

You've shown them you lead the horse to water, but you can't make it drink. And that's the biggest hurdle I've had to overcome.

Sharmin Prince
Great. A question popped into my head and I'm reminded when Mitzi asked the question about leaders and subordinates. What's the easiest leadership style to work with or to coach?

Jennifer Jensen
One that is actually open to coaching and wants to grow and develop their leadership. If you're talking with somebody who is egotistical and they know it all, that's almost next to impossible until they're willing to open up and be true to who they actually are.

Sharmin Prince
Okay. Cause I had, I love the servant leader perspective and have been following that for years. And we had a guest on, um, the show and I asked him, what's the most overrated leadership style? And he said, the servant leader.

And that was surprising because it's the one that I embrace. I preempted that. Jennifer is going to say that the servant leader is the easiest to coach.

Jennifer Jensen
It all depends on the individual, but I think it's the authoritative one that is the most difficult.

Sharmin Prince
Yeah. Okay. Tell us about a specific client maybe who was on the verge of burnout or being sidelined. What is the first non-negotiable action you took with them?

And what was the measurable outcome?

Jennifer Jensen
So this wasn't quite the outcome I had hoped for, but with this client, it was a consulting firm that was dealing with their client who had a micromanager and that micromanager was beyond what I could have ever imagined having as a manager. And so through that situation, coaching them is, we had to sit down and have the hard conversation about, do you stay or do you go? Because everything you do is being questioned. Every aspect of any document you created is gonna be put through AI, and then they're going to go and talk to their spouse about it to see if you're on the right track.

And it was totally impacting the project, the project team that were actually employees of that organization. And they were struggling, but I could only deal with the consultants that brought me in. And their biggest thing, the non-negotiable was you got to take care of yourself, number one. And what does that look like?

Cause you're all burning out, you're overextended and you're working insane hours. So you've got to start looking at what is in the best interest for each of you consultants. And that may mean that you're not staying within the organization anymore and you're leaving that client because this isn't working and you have to have psychological safety and that's number one in any company, you have to have psychological safety in order to do your job. And if you don't have that, that's when you've got to decide, do you stay and learn how to survive it, or do you walk away?

Sharmin Prince
And in that

Jennifer Jensen
outcome, they all walked away.

Mitzy Dadoun
Yeah, that's such a good point because I think we've all had, I remember when I was doing a lot of group benefits for a company, I had a client who they had made a major mistake and they had called and they, the manager was like abusive. Like I could hear him yelling at my team member and it was just like, what the, nobody talks to my people like that. And you know, so I just. told her, hang up the phone, call the client back.

And I said, I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to ask you to take your business somewhere else because that just does not fly here in our organization. We don't treat people like that. And but it's hard when you have a client who's providing a lot of revenue to you, even if they are abusive. Sometimes it's hard, especially for a small business.

But like you say, your emotional well-being and the well-being of your staff and when you stand up for your staff, then they know And that helps them be much more tied to and loyal to you because they know you have their

Jennifer Jensen
back. Absolutely. And that's the same thing that's happening with this consulting firm because now their team knows the firm has their back.

Mitzy Dadoun
Really a good point. What type of exercises do you do? Like, do you tend to work with people one-on-one or in a group, in a team? Can you sort of elaborate a little bit about what working with you looks like and kind of guide

Jennifer Jensen
us through that a bit? So I do both. I do one-on-one advisory and coach, and that's where we spend time. And I truly want to understand who you are as an individual and what issues are you facing so that we can work through those together.

And I gear my material around what issues you are currently dealing with to help you. And if you're not, well then I'll help you overall. And then group advisory, I do go in and help teams deal with specific situations or just help them to change the culture within their organization.

Mitzy Dadoun
Talk a little bit more about changing

Jennifer Jensen
the culture within

Mitzy Dadoun
an

Jennifer Jensen
organization. So that's where these assessments also really support that, because now we're understanding each other, and where our strengths and weaknesses are, and how to better work with each other. And you start to see a total change in that team within days, because they're starting to talk to each other differently. They're starting to form a norm differently.

And it actually impacts other business units within the organization, because they're seeing change where this team is suddenly becoming much more innovative, much more collaborative. And you still may have the odd ones that go, I don't believe in this. This isn't going to work. But eventually you get them in as well.

And it really helps that organization grow and become much more profitable.

Sharmin Prince
Let's say there is a team that has low morale and you are brought in to help that team. What's your approach?

Jennifer Jensen
So my approach with those teams is to go in and first off understand where the leader, what their thought process is with their teams, and then speak to each of the individuals as well on the team to get their perspective, because sometimes talking to an outside source really helps. And then bringing in some of my assessments in there as well, and starting to work with the team to start to collaborate with each other more and more, and finding effective ways to see how we can get the leader in there to create that loyalty, because it really starts with the leader.

they're the ones that are going to transform their team. And if you can get them behind you and leading by example, then you can start to get the team to do that. And you can just take baby steps to get the team moving forward. And that could be changing how they do meetings, how they communicate with each other, and just basic little things that will help support that team and how they're going to grow.

And potentially you may find out that there's some individuals that really shouldn't be on your team, period. And you may have to let them go or move them to another area that would be a better fit for them.

Sharmin Prince
What if it's the leader? I remember John, John Maxwell, the love, the lead. What if it's the leader? How do you handle after?

I'm just going to use the word diagnosing, getting into the organization, identifying the problem. And while you're making your assessment, everything points to the leader. The problem is the leader. How do you remove the lid?

Jennifer Jensen
That it depends on who brought me in. If it's the leader who brought me in, well, then he, that individual, he and I, or she and I are going to have that calm heart, tough conversation about, Hey, this is what I found. And I am the type of individual who's going to tell you the truth, no matter if you like it or not. I am going to be open and honest with you and say, Hey, actually you might be the problem, but.

Here are some solutions that we can do to help change that around for you. And if they're not willing to do it, well, then that, then I'm a waste of time and energy and money for you.

Sharmin Prince
And go ahead. I'm excited by what you said. And my question is, have you ever had a case like that? And how did that go?

Jennifer Jensen
So I actually did. And I actually went to the director or the chief information officer at the time. And it was actually with me where he said, Jen, I want to renew your contract. And I said no.

And he looked at me and he goes, why not? And I said, because I can't work with you. I can't. You are constantly changing the foundation.

And I don't know what your vision, mission, or values are or where we're going. And I can't keep working with you because it's just not effective for me. Well, he went and told my boss that I had said this to him. And my boss looked at him and said, well, what's the problem?

Was she unprofessional about it? And he said, no. Well, was she rude about it? And he's like, no.

Well, then what's your problem? And he looked at him and said, nobody's ever told me that to my face. Do you think she'll come back? And he had actually sat down with me and said, I will give you a blank check, Jen.

You can have whatever rate you want. I will give you an office. I will give you an unlimited candy dish. I will have a driver to and from the office for you.

And I will give you lattes every day on your desk." And I looked at him and I said, yeah, but you will resent me in six weeks. So no.

Sharmin Prince
Wow.

Mitzy Dadoun
Another question that comes to mind is with businesses having shifted so much where a lot of staff is working from home, some companies are trying to get their staff coming back into the office more regularly because there is a certain dynamic when everybody is actually physically together that's very different when everybody's in different places. So how is that affecting helping people through this process? And what are your thoughts on companies that have everybody remote or forcing people to be coming in more often?

Talk

Jennifer Jensen
about some of those issues. So I actually like the hybrid model because some people are more effective at home, but you still need to come into the office to build those relationships. You can do it fully remote and you can do it where you're all in the office, but the mix seems to work better. for productivity and that helps your profitability as well and creates loyalty.

But it is key for them to be in the office at some point because that's when hallway conversations happen. That's when you're connecting and that really helps. If you want it fully remote, you can put processes in place to support the remote aspect and create those social environments with teams. And I had to do this even when I was managing a group of individuals during COVID, where we started to have after work drinks on Thursday afternoons or Friday afternoons.

And then we would send little gifts to all the employees so that that day that we have it, they had a little treat. to go with that to build those connections. And there are things that you can do to help build that dynamic, but you have to put a lot more effort into it and also create the environment of cameras on all the time. Because it's really hard to ensure that people are paying attention and engaged without the cameras.

And that goes for both hybrid and fully remote.

Mitzy Dadoun
That's I think that's a really, really good tip is when you're having people and you're doing those team meetings that you have everybody have the camera on because when the camera's on, you can see if somebody is looking down at their phone or reading their emails or their mind, they're wandering versus. they're in the conversation. Then there's people like me, when I'm in a meeting, I would say to people, you're going to see me look to the side occasionally because I have three screens and I take notes from a meeting on the screen.

Now with Otter and with some of the AI and stuff, usually I'll have it taking notes now more, but prior to that, that was my method. But like you say, the cameras on makes a huge difference as to the attention span.

Jennifer Jensen
Well, and it also allows, cause I'm big into watching body language. So that really helps me to see what's going on and read. If I say something, is it hitting with people or am I totally missing the, missing the game? Who knows?

So I need to see that in order to really help be more effective as an individual and as a coach too.

Mitzy Dadoun
What's been something that's really surprised you when you've been working with an organization or going through this process with companies?

Jennifer Jensen
One of the biggest surprises, and this goes back to the uncommon common sense approach, is the little things that I take for granted that people would normally do. And they would go, Oh, Jen, I'm having issues with this individual. They're not getting their work done. And I'm like, did you actually sit down and talk to them and find out why they can't get the work done?

And they're like, no. Well, what are you gonna do then? And so maybe sit down and go and ask them, is there an issue? Like, what can I help you with?

And just understand where they're coming from in order to support them so that they can get the work done. And then another question I've often asked them too is, did you dictate the work or did you allow them to tell you what it's gonna take? And they're like, I dictated. That's part of the problem.

You need to go and talk to them because they're the subject matter expert and understand what it's gonna take and what they need to do in order to finish the task that you dictated to them.

Sharmin Prince
Oftentimes we hear that resilience is easy to claim, but hard to prove. And in your experience as a coach, managing conflict in teams and between leaders and subordinates. How do you guide them to use your framework that you've created and proven to help them to maybe recover or to strengthen their credibility as leaders?

Jennifer Jensen
It depends on the individual and what they're going through, because resilience is a tough one. Because there is oftentimes, and even in my own entrepreneurial journey, where you sometimes feel like you're sitting in a mud puddle and you don't know how to get out. And then There's days where you go, oh, let me grab that stick over there and pull myself out and let's keep moving. And it's the continuation of that moving.

And when you're working with subordinates and leaders, sometimes it's just baby steps. You've slowly changed the behaviors that you're making and your responses and your subordinate or leader will slowly change theirs too as they start to see and experience the change that you're making. And it's tough. It's not an easy road.

And it's, if you're trying to go for big bang, it's not going to work.

Sharmin Prince
It's

Jennifer Jensen
the baby steps that are going to get you there. Cause like building a habit that takes 21 days. Well, so does everything else because doing it in baby steps.

Sharmin Prince
Okay.

Mitzy Dadoun
I got one more question, which is how is AI affecting what you do or what you're seeing within organizations and teams?

Jennifer Jensen
So AI is slowly coming into it. It's impacting leaners in a big way because of the fact that technology is moving so quickly. And even for myself, I'm watching it as AI tools that I've used. I'm like, I'm kind of outgrowing it or it's not quite as effective as I once saw.

And so you're having to change it maybe six months to a year later. And as leaders, we all are having to adapt at a higher rate because there's so much with technology, with gender differences, neurodiversity, generational differences. when you've got five generations working in the business world now. So that all impacts us as leaders and how fast we have to move and adapt to these.

Sharmin Prince
Thank you for asking that question, Mitzi, because I wanted to ask her how her experience in seeing the impact of AI and if it's positive or negative, but I love how you identify the intergenerational difference. And would you say it has a more positive effect or there are some negatives?

Jennifer Jensen
It's both. It's a mix. And what I'm loving and what I'm seeing more and more is with the generational differences, organizations who actually are doing reverse mentorship. And that's where they take the younger generation and get them to mentor the older generation on using the different technology, which really is doing, creating loyalty and it's helping each other understand the differences and how actually they're really beautiful and work well together if we understand it.

Sharmin Prince
I love that you raised that because research has shown that certain senior centers where they added college students, the lives of the seniors improved tremendously, right? Because of the intergenerational relationships and they're both teaching each other. So that was great that you've identified that and you call it reverse mentorship. Yes.

I like that. I don't think I read that in research. Maybe that's what it's called, but a very, very new model and it's extremely effective.

Jennifer Jensen
Yes. And a lot of 500 fortune companies are starting to use it too.

Mitzy Dadoun
When you mentioned it, the first thing I thought about was that movie, The Intern, where, you know, that sort of the older is mentoring the younger and vice versa. And, you know, just how beneficial it is and how eye-opening it is. It's much in the same way as when you travel and you go to completely different countries and you see the way that different people live in different places. It expands your mind so much because there's so many more different ways to do things and to look at things.

And often we just, you don't know what you don't know. No.

Jennifer Jensen
And with that whole travel piece, it's you have to adapt to the culture you're now in versus the culture adapting to you.

Mitzy Dadoun
Excellent point. OK, Sherman, I think we're ready for rapid fire.

Sharmin Prince
So Jennifer, at the end of the podcast, I'll ask some rapid fire questions and you just answer one word. So maybe I'll start with the leadership myth you wish would disappear.

Jennifer Jensen
I would say that, uh, The vulnerability piece.

Sharmin Prince
One word you hope your clients use to describe you. Passionate. Most underrated leadership skill.

Jennifer Jensen
Empathy.

Sharmin Prince
Go-to tool for a leader having a bad day.

Jennifer Jensen
Every day you can find joy moments, so go and look for them. And it could be just as simple as a thank you.

Sharmin Prince
Introvert or extrovert? Introvert. Which makes a better leader? Introvert.

Book you often give to your clients? Right now it's my book. And what's the name of your book?

Jennifer Jensen
Developing Authentic Leaders.

Sharmin Prince
A morning routine non-negotiable.

Jennifer Jensen
First thing I get up and go for a walk to clear my brain and prepare for the day.

Sharmin Prince
Three ways to build trust fast.

Jennifer Jensen
Self-awareness, empathy, and compassion.

Sharmin Prince
Coffee or tea? Coffee. Final piece of advice for an aspiring leader who is feeling stuck?

Jennifer Jensen
The most powerful thing an authentic leader offers is not flawless guidance, but the genuine courage to show up as themselves.

Sharmin Prince
Is there anything as a perfect leader? No.

Jennifer Jensen
And if you don't believe that you made mistakes, you just made the biggest one by saying you don't make mistakes.

Sharmin Prince
Thank you, Jen. Let's

Mitzy Dadoun
see. Jen, so how can our listeners and viewers get in touch with you?

Jennifer Jensen
So you can reach me at www.authenticleader.ca or you can email me at info at authenticleader.ca. And where can they get your book? You can get it on Amazon and there are links on my website to also get it at Indigo and Barnes and Noble.

Mitzy Dadoun
Wonderful. Well, thank you so much, Jennifer. This has been really enlightening. I know that there is some future leaders out there and some people who have been maybe having a few issues at work that are going to be very happy that they listened to this podcast.

Thank you for having me. It was an honor and a privilege.

Sharmin Prince
Thank you.