Strong Principles Episode 5: Tactical Training

In this episode of Strong Principles, we dive deep into the world of first responders and the physical and mental demands of police work. Host Rob sits down with Pete, a training sergeant with 20 years of experience at the Sebastian Police Department, to discuss the realities of law enforcement training, the stereotypes they face, and the unique challenges that make it so difficult to stay healthy and fit.

Pete, a seasoned officer, shares his journey and explains why the "donut-eating cop" stereotype is a gross oversimplification. He breaks down the physiological toll of a 12-hour shift spent in a constant state of "fight or flight," the impact of night shifts on sleep and hormones, and the nutritional pitfalls that often come with the job.

The conversation then shifts to the evolution of police training. Pete and Rob explore how training has changed from simple bodybuilding and long-distance running to more functional, tactical methods. They discuss the common mistakes people make in their training—too much volume and a constant state of high-stress—and introduce the concept of "chaotic capacity" training as a more effective way to build resilience without burning out.

Finally, we touch on the value of specific training modalities, including Jiu-Jitsu, odd object strength, and conditioning tools, explaining why these are crucial for an officer's ability to operate under fatigue and stress. This episode offers a fascinating and honest look at the lives of first responders, providing valuable insights into the unique challenges they face and the smart, strategic approaches to training that are helping them perform at their best.

Rob (00:00)
All right, we're getting into another strong principles, another episode. This one is going to be more Pete talking to us because Pete works in basically what they call tactical and first responders. You said it was a training.

Pete (00:13)
I'm the training sergeant for Sebastian Police Department. I've been with Sebastian Police Department for 20 years, going on 20 years. During the course of my career, I've done everything from row patrol to row patrol corporal to row patrol sergeant. I was on our SRT team, which is our SWAT team, so I've been through SWAT school. I was a detective for seven years, and I'm currently an in-house instructor, which I'm trained in defensive tactics, Gracie Jujutsu, active shooter response, and then just general instructors.

Rob (00:38)
We're going to get in all things of training of the first responders.

Larry (00:42)
Yeah, I'm definitely interested in all of it because Obviously, cops get a bad rap.

Pete (00:48)
Yes, we do.

Larry (00:49)
That you eat donuts. We do.

Rob (00:52)
Basically, they do. Some of them do.

Pete (00:55)
I love a good dinner. I have one coming in. All right. Powder, especially.

Larry (00:59)
All right. Yeah. Yeah, but a lot of times in the movies, you'll be like, The heavyset cop.

Pete (01:04)
I'll explain to you why we're heavyset and how the odds are stacked against us. It's hard to actually train to be fit because we're in a culture and a world that's setting us up for failure.

Larry (01:14)
Let's talk about that?

Pete (01:16)
Excellent. When you become a police officer, the minute you put on your vest and a badge and you strap a gun to your hip, you are expecting to fight for your life. You know that you're going out and possibly seeing your family for the last day. You're kissing your daughter goodbye, and you may not see her again. You are automatically They're going into fight or flight. We are in the parasympathetic, sympathetic nervous system right then. You're then going for a 12-hour job where you're in that system all day long. You're driving around by yourself hunting the fight for your life. You're just waiting for that tone to go off, knowing that you're now going to have to barrel to a gun battle or something that could kill you. So you're already stressed out, you're already heightened. Then we go into a shift rotation where we rotate through night shift, which means six months out of the year, you're working from 6: 00 PM to 6: 00 AM, which now throws off your sleep schedule. We also, in our last Our podcast talked about nutrition. Unless you prep and get ready, there's not a lot of food options.

Pete (02:04)
We're eating a lot of fast food, a lot of processed food, a lot of convenient food out of snack machines, which is also detrimental to us. Over the course of this time, we're crushing our hormones. We're not sleeping properly. We're not eating properly. We're sitting too much, which ends up hurting our backs. The next thing you know, we're out of shape.

Rob (02:23)
It feeds all into that.

Pete (02:25)
People don't know that.

Rob (02:26)
You laid that out. No, they don't understand that at all.

Pete (02:28)
I think we drive around and eat donuts all day, and we If we don't, we're just prepared for the fight of our life, and we're in stress all day long. Then we have to try to figure out how to train on our days off. We'll get into that later about how that just puts you right back into fight or flight, and you never get out of it.

Larry (02:41)
If you think about the 6: 00 PM to 6: 00 AM person, the only thing that's really open is 7-Eleven.

Pete (02:49)
7-eleven, McDonald's.

Rob (02:50)
That's just going to completely trash them. Trash them? Yeah. I'm not even sure.

Larry (02:55)
The roller hot dog.

Pete (02:56)
I've eaten many of those roller hot dogs.

Rob (02:58)
I'm not even sure, no matter what you do, if you can really be healthy getting up. You can't. Like that and being up all night like that.

Pete (03:08)
Even if you're up all night, your body doesn't want to sleep during the day. You may get sleep, but it's not good sleep. It's not quality sleep. It's not recoverable sleep.

Larry (03:16)
When I was younger, I worked overnight at Wendixi. No longer a thing. Kind of funny. But I used to work overnight at Wendixi, and I would get two hours of sleep, and I'd be up the rest of the day.

Pete (03:28)
Rest of the day. And then you've got to go back to So now you're going to live on caffeine. You're going to live on sugar because your body's crashing, and you're just burying yourself.

Rob (03:36)
When you're younger, I have this because sometimes we got to get up at three o'clock in the morning to open up the gym. Thank God, it's only a couple of days a week. But I'll notice a huge difference just in myself, hormonally, just physically. If I get up at 3: 00 or I get up at 5: 00 or 6: 00, those couple of hours make a huge difference.

Larry (03:54)
Okay, so in this scenario, the police officer gets the The bad wrap of being heavyset this, that, the other, what can they do immediately to try and make themselves be better?

Pete (04:07)
The first thing is obviously food. We can't out train a bad diet. You just can't do it. I would obviously get some blood work done. Make sure your hormones, make sure your blood works fine because There's other underlying problems that may be adding to that. We try to stress, especially if you're on night shift, blackout shades, some eye cover, try to get the best sleep you can. It's not going to happen. First and foremost, you have to start prepping your food. We have to get into a habit where we're preparing our night shift with enough food to sustain us that's healthy.

Larry (04:35)
Okay. I think that makes sense. It's really just planning. Planning, right? Yeah, but planning and making sure that everything is good because I feel like planning with everything is Is key, no matter what you're doing, even if you're trying to make good food that tastes good, you got to plan that stuff out and you got to really start prepping the day before. It's the same scenario with eating healthy, doing the healthy things. If I don't know if you can, but could you talk about or maybe what did training look like, say, 10 years ago versus today?

Pete (05:12)
When I first got in the law enforcement, it was you bodybuilded, and then you ran long distance. That's all you did. Bodybuild, run, and you felt like that was enough, and it was never enough. Crossfit came along. A lot of us started doing crossfit.

Rob (05:23)
It was like a functional-We got into a functional style training.

Pete (05:27)
But as we all know, functional training is also hard on your CNS. You're having to go to work with a high CNS. You're burning yourself out. Then on your days off, you're trying to train yourself to be prepared for the fight for your life in a manner that is almost mimicking it, which is, again, burning your central nervous system. You end up just beating yourself down over and over again. Training originally was a bodybuilding/ running, which we found was not conducive. It did not help for the fight for your life. We started to fold into more CrossFit. Now we're finding that that's too hard on your body. We're starting to fold into more of what Rob does here at VeroString, Which is a segmented training of all of the modalities that will be required in the fight for your life.

Larry (06:06)
Okay.

Rob (06:06)
That's covering a lot because I was going to ask you, what is the mistakes that you see people make in their training in your line of work?

Pete (06:13)
Too much volume. Way too much volume.

Rob (06:17)
Because it's like that. It's like that thing that I always say is the difference between what's optimal and tolerable is too different. And they're not the same. So then you see people, they're always going to most tolerable because they think they need... But that's not not going to get them the best results, which is optimal. It's usually less than they realize. Yes.

Pete (06:35)
The way it was best described in one time, and it made sense is you have to understand that the body doesn't know the difference between being chased by a saber of two tiger or some high stressor, like a hard cardio workout where you're crushing yourself to the ground or a fight for your life. If you just produce that every day, and every day you're on duty, fight for your life, and then you're trying to get chased by a sabre-tooth tiger, you're living in that fight or flight all the time, and you're not going to recover. Then if that training encompasses a ton of volume, you're bearing yourself faster and faster and faster.

Larry (07:06)
Yeah, that makes sense.

Rob (07:07)
Because there's all stressors on the body.

Pete (07:08)
It's all stressors on your body.

Rob (07:09)
Yeah, so now you're adding a big stressor. They need to be able to operate under fatigue and stress. Yes. But you don't want to do that all the time. No. You have to change the way you're training. Because a lot of people would think, just mimic that stress and do it under fatigue all the time. All you do is end up burning yourself out. I'm not saying never, ever do it, but...

Pete (07:32)
If you go and look at most of the tactical training programs that are out now because it's a hot topic, it's way too much volume. You'll watch them, and it's just a ton of volume. It's a ton of met cons. It's a ton of CNS stressors. Do you want to test your CNS in those? Yes. Like you do here on a Saturday, do you come in? But it's not a full fight for your life. You're not being chased by a saber-tooth tiger. It's like a baby saber-tooth tiger. It's something small. It's something easy. But it's still hard enough to know that I need to mentally prepare myself and be prepared for fatigue and produce power after. So I'm testing my skills over the course of time.

Larry (08:04)
Yeah, and that makes sense, too, right? Because fatigue in the fight up for your life would be the worst thing to happen to you if you're in the fight of your life because fatigue would just... You're done, right? My old football coach, when we would do the... If we had a bad practice, we would have to go up and down. So we'd go down the side of the football field, up five yards, back across the football field. As we're going, he would blow the whistle, and you do a down-up, right? Oh, your burpees. Which is essentially a burpee. It was the worst thing ever for us. But he would yell out, Fatigue will make a coward of us all, right?

Rob (08:44)
Yeah. And understand Knowing how to operate under fatigue is really, really important, and keeping your composure under those stressful situations. Crossfit did a pretty good job of showing us that a little bit, but then it was too much because there's a difference between understanding and training, how to operate in those conditions and testing those conditions. What happens is people end up testing them too much, right?

Pete (09:05)
Yeah. I could tell you for me, when I first started CrossFit, we were doing defensive tactics, and in defensive tactics, we are fighting. In a scenario, the scenario was I was on my back, I had to fight from a bad position, then gain control of the person, then take them down and then cuff them. So it's a fight for about five minutes. During that fight, I hit that exhaustion. If you are a combat sport, you know this. You get that sick feeling in your stomach and your brain starts going, oh, no, no, no, no, we're done. We're at the But I knew from my workouts, because I felt like this before, that I still have 10 more minutes. I know I have more energy in me, and my brain just switched, and I was able to win that fight. But if you don't put yourself in that situation and feel that exhaustion, that, oh, no, I'm going to die moment, you're not going to know you have that extra gear.

Larry (09:47)
It's that drowning scenario. It's the drain. Where essentially, you're drowning. If you freak out, you're going to drown. If you relax and start thinking about, Okay, what do I have to do? What's your checklist? Going through your checklist mentally, you can come back up. But if you freak out, you're going to drown.

Rob (10:05)
It's keeping that composure, being able to operate under those stressful scenarios.

Pete (10:11)
That's huge. And your brain will create more stress for you because your brain lying to you. Your brain's telling you, Oh, no, no, no, we're done, we're done. But you really have more energy. So you have to almost convince yourself that, No, I'm not done.

Rob (10:22)
Because operating out of breath is scary for people. It's awful. You see it with them. But if you can get them to tolerate and understand it and keep their composure, then you'll see a change. But a lot of people, that aerobic, it's like aerobic pain. You see it in people's faces. I see it right away.

Larry (10:37)
Oh, 100%.

Pete (10:38)
When you're fighting for your life and that happens, more panic sets in, and then you start making mistakes and you start doing things out of character. One of the things we tell our guys is when it hits the fan, you're not going to just rise above. You're not going to become a superhero. You're going to rise to your highest level of training. If your highest level of training is poor, your highest level of conditioning is poor, that's where you're going to. You need to push that higher. But we have to do it smartly. We We can't just run and bang our heads into a wall and expect it to get better.

Larry (11:04)
Yeah. Along with the training that we do here with Rob or Rob-like material that you would do at the PD, you also do jiu-jitsu?

Pete (11:15)
We do. Our defensive tactics is Gracie-style tactics. It's Gracie Survival Tactics, which is Jujutsu.

Larry (11:21)
When was that introduced?

Pete (11:23)
Been doing it for two years.

Larry (11:24)
Okay, that's fantastic. Yes. Why Jujutsu?

Pete (11:28)
Jujutsu is fantastic for us. As we know, we've all grown up, we've all been in fights. Majority of fights end up on the ground. If you have no ground fighting skills, you're going to lose. We're giving officers not only ground fighting skills, but the basis of jiu-jitsu is that I'm going to be in a position where I can reserve my energy while you're trying to fight. As your energy is going down, mine's either staying or going up. I'm recovering while you're working, and I'm putting you in a position of advantage.

Rob (11:53)
Yeah, that's what I was going to say, because the thing with jiu-jitsu is you're calm a lot. Because I came from a background of wrestling, and whenever I go up against a practitioner that was jiu-jitsu, they were very calm, and they would wait for you to make the mistake. Even though you're much more aggressive and you can control them a little bit, they're just waiting and waiting, and eventually you wear down. That's what I really like to do with jiu-jitsu, and then started incorporating some of those skills. That's a really good skill for them.

Pete (12:17)
That's one thing that when we do the training with officers, because we'll do a ground fighting, and we have to walk up and be like, breathe, relax, because they're all tense and they're no, chill. Get into that position. If you have them in guard or you're in their guard, hold them where they're at, you relax, let them struggle, let them deplete their energy. When they do, they'll make the mistake because now they're freaking out, and you can submit them and finish.

Rob (12:37)
And Pete, wouldn't you say that's the same scenario as them doing a training or some workout where weights, instead of being all tense the whole time, they're doing something, you got to learn when to have the tension and when to release it, and how to relax.

Pete (12:48)
Yes. And continue moving and move when tired and be able to produce power when tired and how to finish a 10-minute Am wrap or finish so many rounds for time.

Rob (12:56)
Well, you know how we always talk, and it's like, not only the ability to be able to right underneath those stressful scenarios. But it's the ability to recover through movement and learning how to recover when you're still doing and moving. That's really important. That's what me and Peter has worked with together a lot.

Pete (13:11)
Yes. And that's where the chaotic capacity, I think, comes in fantastic. But it's the ability to recover while working and then be able to produce power when tired.

Larry (13:18)
What's the chaotic?

Pete (13:19)
Strong Bull, Rob, carried what's called chaotic capacity. There are these fantastic aerobic and anaerobic workouts. Rob will be able to describe it better, but it's perfect for us because it's not a super hard driver of CNS. More bang for your buck.

Rob (13:31)
Yeah. So a while ago, when I was still in the CrossFit realm and I was coaching, I was working with some high-level athletes, and I wanted them to be able to build volume and work-High-level CrossFit athletes?

Larry (13:43)
Yeah. Okay.

Rob (13:43)
Yeah, it was games athletes. I was trying to come up with a way for them to get in the feeling of being in the middle of a really bad workout, but without making them go through all the stress on their body of the workout. I started really working with different type of high-level, really high output intervals, and then having that fatigue them, making it feel like they're in a long workout in the middle of it, and then having them go into movements so that they would know and be able to keep their composure in there. Then I I thought it to Pete about how I did that, and that works perfectly. What it does is it simulates the stress of being really fatigued, but not actually the wear and tear of the fatigue.

Pete (14:26)
You get the mental part, too. When you're on that echo bike and you're at the third or fourth round and you're dying. Yeah, it's awful. It's awful. Now I've got to get off and I've got to do like 2 minutes or 20 calories or something at like a 154 pace on a skier or a rower. I now know that after feeling awful, I can do that. It's that mental aspect.

Rob (14:44)
Yeah, because a lot of the workout and a lot of it, just with everything, boxing, whatever you're doing, jiu-jitsu, is knowing what it feels like to be there under that fatigue. If you've already been there, you know you stay calmer. Then all of a sudden, if you were taking it the first time, for instance, the first time you ever did Fran or something in a cross or workout, that first time you ever do it, you're like, what's going on? What's wrong? Now, then once you understand it a little bit-I'm going to throw up. Correct. But then after that, you're like, okay, I know this is coming. You might not be doing any better, but you're aware of the feeling, so you're more comfortable getting in there. So that's my thought pattern behind that.

Pete (15:21)
And that's a perfect explanation of what I was trying to say when I was saying you're fighting for your life and you're hitting that moment. It's like when you're hitting that 15 round of Fran, and you feel like you're going to throw up, and you feel like you're going die, and you don't think you can finish, but you've done Fran before, so you know you can, so you do. That's what I was trying to explain in the fight for your life. When you're in it and you get that feeling, you want to quit, these workouts, these style of workouts tell you you can, and that's what pushes you through. Yeah.

Larry (15:43)
Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. And Honestly, I've done jiu-jitsu. I'm not a high-level jiu-jitsu guy at all, but I've done it for a couple of years. Collectively, throughout my life. So Yeah. I don't want to make it sound like I'm some practitioner. It's a badass. But I've done it enough to know that when you are, typically in a jiu-jitsu, you learn something in a class for 30 to 45 minutes. You practice it, practice it very casually, very nicely. Then at the end, it's like it's go time. Depending on the day that your instructor is, how he's feeling, it could be one five-minute round, or it could be three, eight-minute rounds. It's brutal. It's brutal, yeah. You're going to roll, and you're going to be exhausted. It's the worst.

Rob (16:38)
Well, you guys, think about what jiu-jitsu, too, is go and roll with someone newer and how much tension in their movement are, and then roll with someone with a lot of experience and how calm they are. Even though you can't get anything done on them, they seem like they're twice as strong, but they're so calm the entire time.

Larry (16:55)
Yeah. I've had the drowning feeling even in jiu-jitsu. I had this guy, big guy. I could never get the guy off me. And he was a judo guy. So his takedowns were fantastic. I never could get the upper hand. And so basically, just took me down and would just smother me. I remember one time, I was just so exhausted. I was just so tired already, and he was just on top of me. I tapped out.

Rob (17:26)
It was like the claustrophobic.

Larry (17:27)
I tapped out just on not being able to breathe because he was on top of me.

Rob (17:32)
Yeah, that happens all the time in different scenarios of wrestling, that would happen.

Pete (17:36)
That's actually a technique we teach is if you have the top position to just lay like a noodle because the pressure of your weight on their chest, it's almost like an anaconda. Every time they breathe, it gets more restricted.

Rob (17:45)
Compressive. Compressive or diaphragm to where they can open up.

Pete (17:48)
You're just flattening out on top of them chest to chest, and your dead weight is way heavy on them, and they freak out or they give up.

Larry (17:55)
Yeah, it's insane.

Rob (17:56)
I wanted to dive in a little more. The implements that guys use? So free weights, kettlebells, dumbbells, sandbags, like what? Ropes? What are the implements or what do you think is best?

Pete (18:08)
I'm a big proponent of Strongman. I think your structure program that you had. If I were to put a barbell out here with 100 pounds on it right now, and I told you to go deadlift it, you do it 100 times. It's your warmup. If I put a 100 pound sandbag out here and I told you to pick up, you're going to struggle with it. It's going to be harder to pick up. It's 100 pounds, but it's not. It's an entirely different movement. Very rarely do we ever go out and pick up a barbell. We pick up sandbag, we pick up people that are hurt, we pick up people that maybe an officer have to drag out, or if I'm fighting somebody, I have to have that strength. So we're big into the odd object strength as opposed to relative strength. We still do relative strength because you do need to squat, you need to deadlift, you need to bench, you need to be able to do the compound movements. But we supplement that a lot with sandbags, farmer carries, odd object strength.

Rob (18:53)
You know my feeling on odd objects.

Pete (18:56)
Very much.

Rob (18:56)
That's where I learned it all. I love them. I really like the barbell It's like my thing. But odd objects have more real-world application. They're closer to objects you're going to do. Yes. If you like a Snatch, super tactical Olympic lift. If you get Snatch heavy, you're pretty strong, but you got a really high skill level because it's so technical. You can pick up a 300-pound sandbag and just pick it up and move it and then set it down. You're just strong. You just do whatever. You're strong. Yeah.

Larry (19:25)
No, that makes sense. It's like the Bo Jackson. I want to say that I heard that he never He was really lifted.

Rob (19:30)
No, he was just strong.

Larry (19:31)
He was just strong because he would go out and do hunting and carry deer and that thing in real main strength.

Rob (19:36)
Yeah, he was just super athletic.

Larry (19:37)
Yeah, but that's the thing, right? Like you said, you're just strong. You don't have to worry about-The funny thing you meant to Bo Jackson.

Rob (19:45)
He was like, that's the first implement that we really saw of understanding cross-training. Even though he didn't do it, he claimed a lot. And that was the first eye into cross-fit and this. And you do different things.

Larry (20:00)
No, that's interesting.

Pete (20:01)
That's interesting. Yeah, we do a lot of odd object, and we have to be power. We have to have power. We need to be able to produce power. So although a technical lift, like an only lift is too technical, we still do a lot of box jumps. We still do a lot of bounding, a lot of sled work. Sleds are fantastic for us.

Rob (20:14)
I was I was going to say that. What about your condition tools? What do you use and what you got?

Pete (20:17)
Air bike, sled, farmers' carries.

Rob (20:20)
Now, do you guys use rowers or skiers?

Pete (20:22)
We have rowers. We don't have a ski. We have a rower. We have an air bike. We have a butcher's sled. Okay. And then we just live on those. Yeah. And a treadmill, so we can run. We do have to run, but it's not as important.

Larry (20:33)
Would you say if you don't have a sled, but you want to do some a push, what about a car? Moving a car?

Rob (20:40)
Yeah. That was the old-school sled. That was the old-school sled. Yeah. Like, Louis Simmons and them in West Side, before, sleds were real big. They pushed the cars.

Pete (20:50)
You could push cars. You can have a tire. You can push a tire, drag a tire.

Rob (20:53)
The only problem with the car, it's so heavy that it's a heavy slide push. But sometimes you want to do light slide push to make more aerobic or more sprints, more anaerobic. So you can do intervals with sleds. So that's the only thing. But the car is great.

Pete (21:08)
So we use this a lot because you can get a lot of work done and a lot of exhaustion without building up a lot of fatigue. I can really beat myself up for 30 minutes on a sled, want to throw up, be fine in an hour, and I can still train the next day.

Rob (21:20)
Yeah, and so, Larry, when we were-CNAS up. When people was talking about the cata capacity, that's why I used a lot of air bike, a lot of rower, a lot of sleds to mimic fatigue. But it doesn't break the body down as much. That's why I like to use conditioning with mostly machines, because once you start throwing weights and different body movements, now you're using up a lot of movement patterns that you might want to use that you're better suited to see more effective strength training. Yes.

Larry (21:49)
Interesting. Okay. So you would use air bikes? Yeah.

Rob (21:53)
I like air bikes a lot.

Pete (21:55)
Yeah. Producing power at a high volume. Yeah. Almost like a sprint, not as wear and tear. You don't have to worry about your knees, your back.

Rob (22:01)
Yeah, and it's minimal skills. I would say there's probably one other tool that might be a little bit better than an air bike, and Pete's standing right in front of it.

Larry (22:11)
The climber?

Pete (22:12)
They're so expensive, though.

Rob (22:14)
Yeah, I know. That's the only problem. But yes, that's probably even a better conditioning tool. But besides that, I would say the air bike.

Larry (22:20)
What about a Stairmaster? They're great.

Pete (22:22)
They're good. Firefighter.

Rob (22:24)
Yeah.

Pete (22:24)
You got to walk up and down story.

Rob (22:25)
Yeah, they're good. They're good. But they're good. Not as easy as the And also the air bike, you can do a sprint, and you're done.

Larry (22:35)
Oh, yeah. No, I've used-The technicality of it is so low.

Rob (22:40)
Just about everybody can do a sprint on it.

Larry (22:42)
That's a good point. Yeah, because I've done the Tabatas on the road, and I'm just like, Oh, yeah. You can crush yourself. Round six, I'm like, Oh, yeah. You can F off. Yeah.

Pete (22:53)
Some of the chaotic capacity that Rob has, it's 15 seconds sprint, and then you get the minute rest, and it's only five or six rounds increasing in Watts. By the end, I feel like I'm going to die. Then I've got to get off of it in Ski-Ark for 500 meters. Yeah. And it's like, I'm not going to be able to do this. I'm probably going to faint or die. But you do, and then you get better. Yeah.

Larry (23:10)
That's interesting. All right. Yeah. Appreciate it.

Rob (23:12)
Yeah. Good one. Thank you. All right.

Larry (23:15)
Thanks, ladies, gentlemen.

Pete (23:16)
Thank you for having me.