Reverse Engineering: Overcoming Task Paralysis with Robin Fountain

Robin Fountain talks about the concept of using reverse engineering to overcome task paralysis. Robin explains this approach through analogies and examples, focusing on breaking down tasks by starting from the desired outcome and working backward to identify the necessary steps. The conversation also explores the importance of understanding personal motivation and the role of consulting and coaching in helping individuals and small businesses achieve their goals. Additionally, they discuss the challenges of mental health in relation to task paralysis, emphasizing the need for finding personal motivation and the importance of helping others.

[00:00:00] Hi Nikki, I'm glad to be here. My name is Robin Fountain. The Fountain Effect, I just have kind of spent most of my life trying to help people get to be the best versions of themselves and, reach what they see as their vision for themselves and that has come in a lot of different roles and, ways of supporting them.

I was introduced to you through AtoZ Client, agreed that , we love A to Z. So I welcome you to my podcast and, what are you going to be talking about today?

What I wanted to bring to your audience today is a concept, called using reverse engineering to overcome task paralysis. Thank you And it's not a new idea. I actually read about something similar many years ago in a book called, What Color is Your Parachute? But I really like it and I found a lot of uses for it with my particular, with the people in particular that I work with.[00:01:00]

Okay. So how does it work? How do you start using your idea? So first, I'd like to start out with an analogy of driving, driving in a car, riding on a bus, a train, something going fast, right? And you're going forward at full speed on the highway, 60, 65 miles an hour. You know where you're going, but there might be a couple of options to get there.

And on the way, you're seeing these sites fly by you. You're seeing some exit signs. You're seeing signs of what should I do? Should I pull off and see this roadside attraction? Should I stop and eat something? I don't know. I don't know what to do. And so just go full barrow ahead and then you get a little bit overwhelmed, by making choices.

And the difference to that Is that when you have when you go in a reverse in a car, first of all, you can't go very fast. Secondly, you can really only see one thing at a time because you're looking in your rear view mirror [00:02:00] or looking over your shoulder and you notice every little rock. You see every bump coming and it really slows the brain down.

To literally focus on one thing at a time as some, advice is given looking through a paper towel tube to just see one thing in a room at a time. And through that, you can focus on what came immediately before this, what came immediately before that, what came immediately before that. You're not getting stuck in a rabbit hole.

You're not looking at three or four options to make a decision on. You're just writing the steps to break down backwards and very often, we are mentored or taught to break down large projects into smaller bits and chunks. And that doesn't make sense to everybody because what size is a chunk? Am I doing everything red?

[00:03:00] Or am I doing everything purple and green? Or am I, what's the chunk and how long should it take and how small should it be? So, this also takes away some of that questioning because when you go backwards, it's very obvious. Also, what I like about it is that it allows The person, especially if it's a personal goal, as opposed to a work project, for instance, that maybe they're not as invested in to see that goal that envision the final project in their mind at the start, and it can create some excitement and maintain some of the energy and the excitement around that, like being able to see the.

With the full beautiful picture instead of dumping out the pieces and not really knowing what it's going to look like in the end. So I like to use a lot of metaphors and analogies that [00:04:00] kind of create the feeling or the vision that I have. And so let's take, for instance.

Well, let's go with somebody wants to start a podcast as we both know, and there's a lot of learning along the way. Sometimes we have resources that we trust a friend, a colleague that says, well, I use this product. I use this product. I use this platform.

They're really great. Just go for it. You look, it fits in your budget. Fine. Awesome. Excellent. If you just go plain from the beginning, you're in a vacuum, sitting in a closet, on the internet looking for different equipment, you have no idea. Is there a big difference between the 300 mic and the 100 mic and the 25 mic?

Obviously, there's a difference, but then you start researching. What? Which one? What's the difference? And now you've gone six hours in a rabbit hole about microphones on the Internet, and now you've completely lost your [00:05:00] enthusiasm for the day. It's exhausting. Forget it. The learning curve is too big. So let's go to the other end of it.

Your first episode is released. You're listening to it. The sound is great. If you're doing visuals, the visuals are great. The show notes are complete. Your transitions are great from music to commercials to banter conversation. It's all great. So what is the thing that happens right before that?

Immediately before that, you have to release it. You have to release it to where you want it to go. And so you need to know a little bit about that. And you look up very quickly. There's only one choice, usually an RSS feed. Okay, an RSS feed. I don't know what it is. I don't have to know what it is. I just need a product that does the RSS feed.

And keeping within my budget, maybe I want a [00:06:00] product. That only does RSS feed instead of it being a component of a much more complicated platform that does a lot of things that I don't understand and maybe I'll never need. And maybe I'll ask somebody or I can just go in RSS feed only. There are those platforms, but there's also integrations you could put into your website.

We don't want to do that. We're not technology experts. Let's assume we don't want to bring somebody else in. Pay somebody 500 to install a plugin that's free. So let's just go plain RSS feed software. So that is actually, so that's your next to last step. Very clear. And maybe you'll have some notes alongside of it.

 The name of a couple of options and the pricing. So now you have two options. You don't have seven, you don't have 12. You're not doing everything, you know, [00:07:00] from the beginning and not knowing what you need when you first buy your first platform, when you pay for the initial software, because you have, generally what the process is to get your first podcast uploaded.

So right before you. Identify what your RSS feed is going to be. You need to, research the steps to that. What do you need to have it? So, what format do you need your audio in? Is it a WAV format? I forget, MP3 I think is audio, MP4 is video. So, however you record and edit, it's going to have to be in that format that this RSS feed suggests, strongly suggests.

They'll say, well, you could do this or this, but this is going to have a better quality and it's going to go out to more locations and more remote locations and smaller platforms to be able to [00:08:00] hear. Great, so now I know when I record, I'm either going to record in MP3 or I'm going to have to convert it very quickly, easily.

In my editing software, and then I go to this step right before that. Is this RSS feed what other technical components are required for it? Um, is the size of the video? The colors, the whatever that requirement is again. So you don't start from the beginning and get to the end and realize you've done about five things wrong and you need to start over.

 And so you just go back, back, back. Now you could get a list from, how to produce a podcast and you get this very generalized list. Think of a theme, think of a name, Determine your equipment. That's your, like, general list, but there's so many branches to go off from there. You can very quickly become in the weeds if you start [00:09:00] from, do a theme, because then your theme could be anything, and there's 500 billion choices, and now you're in the weeds.

Exactly. And so you go with this, beginning to end list, but you use it to make your end to beginning list. And I believe, and I've seen this happen, that it really, it just slows the brain down and allows, The individual or a small team to focus on one thing at a time, just like you would want to do when you're driving backwards.

A lot easier to avoid a pothole going backwards than going forwards at 60 miles an hour. And so that's the general approach, and it can be used for a lot of things. It could be used, somebody decides a little bit later in life. I want to go to medical school. Okay. Well, there's no guidance counselor from high school.

Nobody's telling you from the beginning, you're been out of [00:10:00] college. And now you're trying to figure out who to go to, who to get help from. Courses, admissions, counselors, but before you decide on the schools to apply to, you don't want people selling to you. You don't want to have to default to some of the higher priced career schools as opposed to an established medical school.

But what is the last thing you have to do before you apply to medical school? Probably to find out what the requirements are for the different schools, or what the top rated schools are for a later in life. So you start at the end. I'm a doctor. I just finished my internship. Now I'm a full resident.

What got me here? What were my internships in? What was my major interest? What was my school environment like? Was it small and focused? Was it large and I was just one of a million people? That might be hard for my personality.

 So you're imagining yourself as a doctor, you know, what [00:11:00] happened right before that? What was that? And go backwards from there? Okay. These are the prerequisites. This school allows me to do a bachelor's to medical school entry with only taking organic science.

 Organic chemistry and anatomy, even though I took it 20 years ago, body probably hasn't changed that much, but I still need to have a recent anatomy class. So what are my options? I have two community colleges, or I could do something online. What's my budget? What are the classes? What school is going to let me take only these classes without declaring a major?

So that's the step before that. Actually in the middle there was actually applying to medical school. So I have to apply. What do I need to apply? I need some recommendations. I need these prerequisites. Who am I going to get recommendations from? I don't know very many people. I'll probably have to count on getting a good relationship with some of my teachers.

And so [00:12:00] maybe taking an online class is not in my best interest. It may be in my best interest to actually go over to the community college or the university and take these prerequisites so I have the opportunity to make some relationships.

And then you go before that. Well, I need to know what I even took in school and how that compares to what I need. Let me order my transcripts.

Wouldn't one of the steps have to be to make sure your transcripts still matter? Because I know some credits won't transfer with age. Exactly. So, but you need to see what's on there so that you pair it to what they require. Maybe for some weird reason I have to take math again. Because I haven't taken math in 20 years, so to know what it is that's expected and what you already have, what will transfer, what won't transfer, because that's going to tell you the classes that you need to take.

So are you a coach? Do you help people through [00:13:00] this? My business now is a small business. Entrepreneur and small business consulting and coaching and the reason why I differentiate that is they're not the same coaching as I've been taught. I don't want to take away from anybody else's experience or training for me.

Coaching is 1st of all, evoking the client's own knowledge and expertise in themselves. To know what to do next, what works best for them and what they're likely to stick to. It also focuses on the future and not the past. The past is therapy, the future is coaching. Consulting typically involves a little bit of expertise and a little bit more of direct guidance and direct action and advice.

Coaching, you don't really want to give advice. First of all, people don't usually take your advice. If they do and it doesn't work out, then you're wrong. If they [00:14:00] take your advice and it works out. Well, that's the best, the most ideal scenario. So I do consulting because I do have a lot of background, a lot of different areas.

I've worked with entrepreneurs, solopreneurs and small businesses for over 20 years. As much as I love working with individuals on their personal goals. It's one of those things that people Kind of move in and out of it are less likely to invest in themselves. I also have a special place in my heart for people with a lower level of resources.

So, well, I don't want it to hurt people, but, I won't always get the people that I'd love to work with who have the resources to afford that kind of service. And it's one of the first things that gets dropped in an economic downturn, just like a gym membership or getting nails done or, something like that.

 And so what I like about consulting is typically with a small business. I like the niche [00:15:00] of the family owned the small business where they don't have resources to pay a consultant 15, 000 to help them prepare to scale, but they also don't have all of the holistic knowledge and expertise to get there on their own, because they're usually just spinning wheels.

And so, as I mentioned, kind of in my. Introduction. I've just held many roles over the years where I've helped people through a process, and sometimes it does involve handholding. Sometimes they need that extra guidance, that reminder. I've worked with people who I literally had to fill out forms for them, because it was just overwhelming for them to do it.

Filing initial disability claim for their child because otherwise she would have had to go through 40, 50, 100 pieces of paper to dig out this [00:16:00] doctor for this diagnosis, this doctor for this diagnosis, this speech therapist. And it wouldn't have gotten done, and she would have just felt worse and worse about herself.

The shame and the guilt of not being able to follow through To help her child. So I did the initial application. She didn't even have to be there. She just handed over the big pile of paper documents, sent that in, and then I gave her the three pieces of paper that she needed to actually go into the disability office to continue the application.

But she got to experience the pride of checking something off that list. And that's what I love to see is the light in somebody's eyes. No matter what their barriers are, because for anybody, a small success is a success. You bring that up to a business level where your family is counting on things. Your client is counting on things.

Your employees are counting on you. [00:17:00] And if it's somebody who started everything themselves from the very beginning. They don't know how to delegate often, they're afraid to delegate, they're afraid to let anybody babysit their baby, and sometimes it seems easier for them to do everything themselves than to show somebody how they want it to be done.

So there's a lot of education in it. And one of the things I do, and it can be used for, you know, personal gains or business, is Identify how much of your time and energy you're spending on a low impact activity versus a high impact activity. So you have, I call them, well, it's the way it was taught to me, 10 an hour task, 100 an hour task, 1, 000 an hour task.

Now it has to be 20 an hour because nobody could. Pay anybody 10. That is very true. [00:18:00] And if you have a business owner who was spending 50, 60 percent of their time on 10 an hour tasks, but they're losing out networking, communicating with their clients, creating relationships with vendors, getting proposals and estimates in on time and accurately so they don't lose money.

It is well worth the 1, 000 a month that they might pay a part time remote assistant to do those 10 an hour tasks or paying somebody 15, 20 an hour to run around town and deliver items and pick them up and pick up supplies. so that the owner or manager can focus on 100 an hour tasks and 1, 000 an hour tasks as very similar in your personal life.

Although we don't always have the resources, for me, grocery delivery, best thing ever invented. I hate grocery shopping. [00:19:00] It takes two to three hours. I usually spend more money because of those. I, Oh, that looks fun. Oh, let me make that. Oh, let me do that. I just go on my list. I buy almost the same things every week.

I have a year long membership for free delivery and that's it. I don't have to think about it. So to me, that's a 10 an hour task. And it's well worth the a hundred dollars a year to pay for the free delivery. And then that allows me to focus on other things that would bring in revenue or just a more value to me.

Yeah. In the past, when, I have my money fluctuates because of what I do, being an office assistant. Some people like, well, I'm not doing very much right now. So I'm going to let you go. But at one point my roofer was doing really well. And so I was doing really well. And, I actually hired somebody to work with me to do some of the stuff that was monotonous [00:20:00] and like boring.

That I hated doing and was ready to throw my laptop out the window when I did have to do it because I hated it so bad. And like, she did it fine, very quickly, and she was great. I'm going to hire her back someday. And like she did wonderful at those tasks and she got them done whenever and I was just yay.

That is not on my plate no more because I don't want to do it. And I think that leads into sort of the task paralysis, at the personal or business level, you know, task paralysis. If I had to go to the grocery store, I would probably wait until my cupboard was there. Before I went, because I don't feel like leaving the house sometimes, or I just know I'm going to spend more money, or it's really hot and I don't want to drive over there, or I don't feel like seeing people today.

Yeah, there's always an excuse. There's always a reason [00:21:00] when, like. When you don't want to do it, when you can't decide what needs to be done first, there's always that,

 I can't, you know, I have 2 choices. I'm not going to do either. I'm done. I don't know what to do anymore. You know, and some of it, like some tasks that you try to do, you don't know how to do at all. And learning becomes. astronomical. Like, why do I have to learn this?

 I don't know how to use the computer. Why do I have to learn how to do the most complicated things on it in order to do my business? And so that becomes a barrier. Exactly. And that's why task paralysis is so closely related to procrastination. Task paralysis is one of the reasons for procrastination.

And we just, you know, right away, we have to get away from equating procrastination with laziness. [00:22:00] Because 99. 9 percent of the time, it has nothing to do with being lazy. It might have to do with not wanting to do it. Because it's boring, because it's monotonous, because you don't know how to do it, because you don't know where to start.

Which part do you start with? Do I have to go to a class to use computers? Can I do something self guided? And am I going to stick with it? Is it affordable? Can I afford to throw this money away if I start it and don't finish it? Or am I going to feel guilty about it for the rest of my life? But the task paralysis, it covers a lot of things, as does procrastination, as does perfectionism.

A lot of it is covering up fear. I'd rather not do it at all than do it and fail or do it wrong. Sometimes procrastination is a little bit of rebelliousness. I'm a grown up and you can't make me. Yeah. Sometimes procrastination is [00:23:00] self care. And that is something that most people would not connect. And I had a client recently who said she decided that If you are doing something that feeds you, that lifts you up, it's not procrastination.

She might take a break, she thinks that she should be creating some content, but she gets up and plays the piano instead. What energizes her to have played the piano for 20 minutes or 30 minutes? She wasn't procrastinating, she was filling herself up for the rest of the day for something that took away energy.

And now she's a better person for it. She's a better mom, she's a better business owner, she's a better manager, because she took 30 minutes to play the piano. That's not procrastination, that's reallocating, that's refilling. For some people it might be taking a walk, for some people it might be stopping to prepare lasagna from scratch and get those [00:24:00] noodles boiled, for the next step.

And often, detaching from that more task oriented work allows the creativity to flow. We get really stuck. What am I going to write next? What did I want to write here? So you sit down and you take a walk, or you start cutting vegetables, or you play the piano, and the thoughts start coming. They just start coming to you.

And you get up and you're refreshed and you just have that energy. For me, I know that when I'm working, I can make all the decisions. I will tell people what they need to do. I am very sure about what I'm doing when it comes to work. But then I turn around and walk out of my room to go get something to eat, or I've got to make a choice as to whether or not I'm going to get certain medical care.

I have just as much wrong with my brain as I do my body. And so it kind of is one of [00:25:00] those things where I got a call just before this started that they wanted to schedule an appointment. And I'm like, yeah, can we do that in like November? Cause it has to be done this year, but I don't want to do it. I've never done it before.

It's completely terrifying. And then that makes, my anxiety goes, Nope, we're not doing this. Not at all. And so, but I know that I have to, and this is, me being me, I know I have to, can't handle it today, but by November, I'm sure as heck gonna have to, but I pushed it off for as long as I felt I could because I don't want to do it.

Yeah, and then how do you get your brain back on track? Because even though you have actively put off the task of scheduling it, your anxiety is up now. You have to go back in and get creative. Think about your next episodes or, write, create writing something, maybe taking care of [00:26:00] something for a different client.

How do you get your brain back to where it needs to be? Because now, the next half hour is probably a complete waste of time, so what can you do about that? And I kind of wonder if there is, A reverse engineering approach to scheduling that appointment. Like, imagining that you're in it and everything is going smoothly.

It's going, you've gotten all the information you need about it, everything's going fine, the results are fine, it's all good, nothing you didn't expect. So what happened right before that? Well, maybe you talked to other people that have had that test done or that type of medical appointment.

Maybe you talked to one of the nurses in the office. or the scheduling coordinator. Can you tell me more about this? Like, what does it really do? Because this is what I've heard, and this is what I'm assuming. And it really freaks me out. You know, is education and information going to help you? Or is it going to [00:27:00] scare you?

I remember looking into, you know, the laser eye surgery years and years ago. It was actually called RK at the time. I still want to do it. But I read the part where you have to read what they're going to do to your eyeball and like sign off on it and I'm like, I don't want to know, I don't know what, I want to know what you're going to do to my eyeball.

I don't want to know what's touching my eyeball. And so sometimes too much education can scare us, but sometimes knowledge really is power. So going backwards from that, do you just need to know more about the procedure? Yeah. Do you need to know people who did it that it turned out?

Well, so just like kind of applying this reverse engineering approach to I have to make the appointment, but I'm afraid to make the appointment. I don't want to make the appointment. I don't know what's going to happen. And now it's going to be on your mind for the next 2 months. Yeah. How can you start doing it now to mitigate that anxiety and the delay of doing it?

The biggest thing for me in this [00:28:00] problem that I'm, in this appointment is that somebody I don't know. At all. I'm like, there's no way you can go meet them ahead of time. Hi, how are you? I have to meet you ahead of time because I'm stupid weird. Because I don't like to be touched. And if I'm going to be touched, the person has to be a person who is in my, I'm okay with this person bubble, right?

There's not too many people in that bubble. There's like three or four people in that bubble. And so I have to get over the anxiety of, first of all, in my head, I know what is going to happen, but because I've heard about the process for a long time, everybody has right? But they're going to be touching me without my clothes on type thing, freaks me out.

And now I'm going to be anxious for a while and [00:29:00] really, there's like nothing that can help with that.

But I'll let it go. It'll go out of my mind with work and stuff as you know, and then once that day comes, I'll be like, oh, I have to do that today. And, the panic will come back, but. I'll be fine. It's just the way my brain works is awesomely weird. Well, you can either try to dissociate from it in the moment.

 Or you never know if you call the medical office and say, I know I need to schedule this. And I'm having a lot of anxiety about somebody I don't know being so close to my body and touching it. Is there any way to set up a video call? With the doctor, technician, nurse, whoever, who is going to be doing this.

Do you think it's possible for them to give me 10 or 15 minutes before I go there? I know this is unusual. I know everybody is [00:30:00] scrambling for time But I'm really afraid this is going to keep me from taking care of my health. That's a good idea. All they can say is no, because you already have it in your mind that you're not going to be able to meet them.

So what's the worst that can happen?

At least you know you're a weirdo, right? At least you realize you're a weirdo. I fully embrace my weird. But, none of it's malicious. And it's not because I'm a germaphobe or anything. I just have decided that it is my choice who gets to touch me nowadays. And that leads to interesting situations.

 Back to like reverse engineering, so I am gonna try that i'm gonna try to call and see if maybe I can at least You know have a quick video call with the person You know once they have that person scheduled Or at least can maybe get a couple minutes because that is a good idea.

Yeah there's no [00:31:00] reason all his tests are from x rays and There's no reason for him to start going, I need to grope you today. And he's really good at people come from far away to be his patient. So I got lucky to get into his, on his phone and to see him.

 I don't see any reason why they can't accommodate you in some way, or at least give you some time to answer questions, any concerns and, see what you can mitigate between now and November. And like you said, probably once you make the appointment, you'll put it out of your head until it pops up on your calendar and it won't suck away important mental energy.

No, once it's in my calendar, I'm usually done with it. So I forget about it.

And also, a really important point is when you look at the end result, when you go. From the end backwards, you need to envision [00:32:00] best case scenario, not worst case scenario, which is, that's a hard switch all in its own. Yeah. But I think getting to the end and saying it's fine. Everything is fine. I came out of it.

Fine. Everything was normal. I didn't freak out. I was, relaxed and or at least disassociated so it won't traumatize me further. It's all good. And then, what did I do before that to make it good? And then what did I do before that to make it good? And I'm not Miss, flowers and sunshine, positive thinker.

That's not me. I'm not positive affirmations and, definitely have some, but

I can see things coming out for the worst. That's also not natural. And we want to be, aware of the pitfalls that could come up. That's a responsible thing to do. But sometimes it can just help to say, oh, that went fine. Yep. I'm just imagining. [00:33:00] I'm imagining that it went well. Admit to yourself you're imagining it.

I'm just going to imagine that it went well and what that would look like. You're not saying it's going to go well. I'm praying that it's going to go well. I'm sending up flower birds into the sky, hoping that it goes well. I'm just imagining that if it went well, this is what it would look like. And this is how I would feel.

So, a couple of the people that I talked to are those hearts and flowery, everything will be fine people. But when they do their affirmations, it's not I'm going to be fine or I'm gonna do this. Oh, I'm done with this test. Everything went fine. And I'm on to the next thing.

So it would just be. Like a normal, it happened, but I'm good, whatever, instead of saying, I'm going to be fine or it's, I'm going to pray that it'll be fine because that's kind [00:34:00] of putting in your head that it probably won't go well. So, then when they do their positive affirmations, it's more, I went to my appointment.

Or, I have, left my appointment and I'm going out to lunch with a friend. Just like, completely glossing over it because it was probably, you know, in their mind it was fine. So like, why would you stress over it and not go out to eat with somebody? You know what I mean? Yeah.

Absolutely. Absolutely. And that's 1 of the things, we kind of circle back to tax paralysis is that often once we start something, the paralysis immediately goes away and I like to use the example of. You really need to clean your kitchen. Like, it is a disaster. It is a hot mess. What happened this week?

What gremlins were in there cooking overnight and tossing tomato sauce around the room? Like, it's next level, [00:35:00] right? And it is like, I don't even know where to start. I do not even know where to start right now. One thing, pick up the sponge and just start rubbing the counter in one, it doesn't matter if it's a dirty sponge Dirty place or not, right?

Pick up the sponge, start wiping the counter. And then you're gonna go, oh, my microwave's pretty dusty. While I'm here, let me do that. Well, I may as well pick up the microwave and go underneath in case anything has spilled lately. Well, now I may as well just wipe the whole counter down and oh, yeah, the sink.

Well, I can't see the bottom of the sink right now, but all right, let me just finally put stuff in the dishwasher. If you don't have a dishwasher, maybe you have a tub in your sink. So at least you can put one pile instead of a pile. And the next thing you know, you've scrubbed every counter, you've picked up every small appliance, the stove is clean, the dishes are done, and you're ready to wash the floor if you feel like it.

Maybe by [00:36:00] now you do. Everything else looks good, you may as well wash the floor, even if it's just a quick mop with a little, Swiffer, or whatever generic form of that somebody might have, you don't have to take out the mop bucket and the big heavy mop and, or you could go, I'm happy with everything at eye level, I'm not going to worry about the floor today, I'm all done with it.

But most likely, you'll wash the floor because now the rest of the kitchen looks great. And may as well just do that one last thing and finish it up. And you go, after this, I'm just sitting on the couch the rest of the day. But just that one thing, one square inch of cleaning the counter, it is going to build on itself, and you're like, I'm here already, I may as well.

And immediately you're not paralyzed anymore. It's a very simplistic example. There are other things that, speaking of, a medical appointment or some other big activity that has to be done, you have to call. Some make a call about something, for me, my big red [00:37:00] flag, or is anything having to do with money.

I go ballistic. So if I have to call the bank or if I have to call a medical provider and why are you charging me this and can I get a discount or however it works? Can I have a payment plan? I will flip that off and flip that off and flip that off because I might hear something I don't want to hear.

Or, there are definitely harder things than cleaning your kitchen is what I'm trying to say, but sometimes just taking one little action, is enough to unblock yourself for a little while.

And if it doesn't, if it's just you picked up all the trash out of your kitchen. That's a good start. Maybe tomorrow you can do the dishes. Don't hang up on the one thing. I don't feel like doing anything else. Or I don't have the energy now. I'm sore. Whatever. Then, okay, stop. You did the trash.

You did one step. So maybe tomorrow [00:38:00] you do another step. Whatever that may be. So be happy with where you are. Well, not happy. Be okay with where you are with the knowledge that you have more to do. But, it can wait. So, maybe you rest for an hour or two, and you go back in there and go, I really need to get these dishes done.

They're starting to smell. And so you wash the dishes. Okay, well now you've gotten that done, why not wipe down the counters? Because the smell might be coming from them too. You know? Oh, you're wiping the counters down now? Wait, what about the stove? Are you really going to let it look like that? You know?

Or, you can, I've heard this thing from somewhere, I'm not sure where, tell a friend, because you know you're going to clean before this friend comes over the house, tell them that they have to come over On Friday [00:39:00] at 7 p. m. And you'll make sure your house is clean for them or if it's a really really tell them to do it weekly so that yeah You have your house done weekly and like you're not re upping that invitation You're just telling them flat out come this time every week and if it's not done Maybe they help you finish with whatever needs to be done.

Well, that's what I was gonna say is the whole body double Concept and maybe they don't even have to help you. All they have to do is sit here and witness that you're doing it. You chitchat, you listen to music, you're back and forth. They're doing whatever they could be on their phone. They could be reading.

They could be doing nothing to help you, but they're there to witness you. And keep you company while you do it. And that is a concept from being a professional organizer. There was an example from a book I read about, I don't know, 20 years ago, a woman, an older woman who she just, [00:40:00] she didn't like paying her bills.

She had plenty of money. And this is like the old days. You didn't automate pay me. I mean, you have to sit with your checkbook and write things out, right? She had the money. It wasn't that. She knew how. This wasn't something new to her, but she had hired a professional organizer who, amongst other things, would just come and sit with her while she sat down and wrote out her monthly bills.

For some reason, it was just a thing, that she couldn't get through without having a witness to that. I have someone who sometimes needs to make phone calls that I work with and he will call me and I'll mute myself and he'll call who he needs to call. I am just there because he needs that extra little push that.

Allows him to make those calls that he needs to make. One thing I absolutely would not recommend because it will be a disaster is When we get that burst of energy and go I [00:41:00] think i'm going to reorganize my closet today I'm gonna get rid of i'm gonna get rid of the old stuff I'm gonna hang everything on color coordinate and you empty out your entire closet onto your bed And then you are very tired and you have lost your energy and now you don't care and now you're either going to sleep on your clothes or they're going to end up on the floor and now you're going to have seven loads of laundry to do the next time you get around to it.

Do not go with your gut feeling that you should empty out every closet in the house, every drawer, all at the same time. Because that energy and excitement won't last. You need to do sections of your closet. Ten hangers at a time. Pull that out. Put them back. One drawer. T shirts only. Leggings only. Shoes only.

Because there are certain ones of us, we do get super excited. You know? I [00:42:00] have, I'm going to organize some stuff and I'm on online ordering thing that brings you things to your door and order all the stuff and then it sits there for three weeks because by the time I got there three days later, you didn't feel like putting together the shelf.

You put together shelves like that 10 times or all of a sudden you can't remember how to put the shelves together. It's very confusing. So absolutely do not do that in any way whatsoever. Yeah, I've seen that video. Don't do that. There are plenty of people in those shorts online who have figured out that's a horrible idea because for the first little bit you're excited you're finding stuff you ain't never seen in your closet before because like where did this, tiara come from?

When did I get a, Elmo, pajamas? And all of a sudden you're wearing tickle me Elmo pajamas with a tiara walking around with a bazooka [00:43:00] and a curious George doll on your back. And you haven't done anything at all. And for me, usually I can't get something done in one day. I'm not going to, I'm not going to take it on.

I have to be able to do it that day and then be done with it. If it's not done, it's going to be three quarters done for the next three months. Yeah, it's gonna. Yeah, my closet right now is a mess and I probably need to organize it, but I ain't pulling everything out at once. Because that's not how you do it.

With this mindfulness stuff, are you doing your part? I think the only thing I would add on, which might lead into what you're going to say is that, we've talked a lot about personal situations, but your podcast is balancing, business and, some of these things, some of these brain operations and, how does that carry over?

Because we're not always giving grace in the workplace. We might give ourselves grace. [00:44:00] But how do we push through the things that are really hard in the workplace, While having to mask what is happening with us and not having the right support and accommodations. And that's a whole other discussion is, accommodations and being vulnerable in the workplace.

Yeah, I work for my own business because I am weird and I am just quite sure. That no corporation wants to deal with my weird. I have people that I enjoy working with though So I don't have a problem with that.

So what I want to say is, a PSA about Some of the stuff that we talk about, like stuff we talked about today, stuff I've talked about in the future, stuff I've said in the past and stuff I'm going to say in the future. The main thing for me, Is no matter what you're doing, no matter if you have mental health issues or not, you have to [00:45:00] find your why.

You can not give a fig about the business you work for, but there's a reason you're there. And if you hold on to that, why, then you're just going to do what you need to do to get to that. Right? You're going to keep working and things instead of losing focus and going, everything sucks. I don't want to work here anymore.

I'm never going to do this again. I have to quit and I'm never going to have another job in my life. Yeah, how that kind of thing blows up in your brain. On the other hand, if you do have mental health problems. You have to figure why why are you here? Why are you staying here?

There are reasons My most unselfish reason I don't want my body to be found by somebody else And that means in that case they now have mental health problems because they found my body [00:46:00] Because I deliberately put my body in a place and now they have to find me And that's not fair. That's not fair to anybody.

So not doing nothing The sun could do its thing and I still wouldn't do anything because I know that I'm not gonna hurt the people around me by Doing that to myself, right? So that's a big one for me. I have kim She is my person. She is my safety net. She's my calm. She is my Best friend right? I am not Because I live with her and her husband.

I am not going to be The reason that finally gives her something to be actually sad, that would piss me off. So, I'm not gonna do anything to myself. I have that solid core. I'm not. Now, are there days that are hard?

[00:47:00] Oh, heck yeah. There are extremely hard days. There are days where I'm sitting on my bed going I don't know how I'm gonna survive this day. Because this has been harder for me, but I will never do anything. There is never any thought that goes through my head that I believe in my core enough to actually make me go against my whys.

Okay, so if you have a why that is strong enough, it is basically a 500 foot thick brick wall that is not coming down, and if that's a block, you're never going with that option. It's not gonna happen and now because you don't have that option that means you have to live right now Why what are you gonna do?

You have to do something. You cannot always just be in bed crying Yes, it's hard. I [00:48:00] understand what I have had my time or that's what I did But I got my brain back You know the fog kind of lifted and I started doing more and more I couldn't have done this podcast a year ago, right?

Because there was just No way I wasn't prepared for I was too self conscious about it i'm still Not wholly behind the part where people see my face like seriously that part gets me but Once you have your why again You step forward, and it is frickin baby steps to start with. Okay, I'm gonna get out of bed for an hour today.

I'm gonna go sit on the couch and look at the sun through the front windows. Then I'm gonna go back to bed because screw this, it's too bright. Right? And then you take, baby steps until [00:49:00] you're up for a good portion of the day. Now, what are you going to do for work? You can't go work at Walmart If you're struggling to get out of bed every day, but you need something that you're passionate about Can you draw get into doing that people need drawings even with AI being out there because AI Can't put words on anything because it can't spell for nothing.

It can't do hands We got fingers that are missing or 17 fingers on a hand, right? so There's always that. There's always something you can do. There is almost never someone, I'm saying almost just to cover my butt here, that can't do anything to help somebody else. And that's what you do at first.

You're not doing it for money at first, because you're not ready to do that, right? You're doing it to help someone. [00:50:00] Oh, my graphic design friend needs help with this thing. I'll help her. And then, that way, I keep getting stuff coming to me, and eventually, you start to charge, because hey, I'm doing more work, I'm on top of it, I can meet deadlines, I'm doing good.

Everything that is in my podcast is for after you have found your why. And decided to move if you're still laying in bed I feel for you, but you're not like you're not going to get anything because then task paralysis going to be a problem for you? Or it is the biggest problem probably because you just don't know where to start, right? So start with the basic tasks get a hold of a friend and say You I need something to do to help somebody.

Do you know of anything you know I can do that I can help somebody with? And then work from there. [00:51:00] I started doing office manager y type stuff way back when I didn't have my brain, when I was fully in the fog because a friend kept saying, Here, I have this thing, you're good with computers, I need you to do this thing.

He needed me to do an Excel file. He didn't know how to do it. It was a thing. Right. Right? And, he just kept giving me tasks to do. It took years for me to come out of that hole. Like, there's no lie, there's no lie there. Took years for me to come out of that hole. This is not a same day magic cure all.

Oh, yes. She said, get up and do it. I'm going to go do that. It doesn't work that way. Right. But once I came back to myself, once I had my brain back, once that fog lifted for me, I told him, I was like, I am me, tell me what to do. And he gave me [00:52:00] more and more tasks and we worked well together and we made it.

Like I was able to do things I you know, I became this good from that Right. It was always a step like I was always working with therapy people so that I could get better If you're not in therapy, you need to get therapy. There are ways to do therapy Even if you have no money I mean you have to figure it out You have to go to your social services or whatever and say I need therapy help and they have to find you help Go to the hospital tell them you need therapy That you're thinking thoughts that you shouldn't be thinking.

You might get a three day stay, but that will put you on some kind of medication. And then when you get out, you get told where to go to find a therapist. Usually, some places do this better than others.

But, I could sit here and say, don't do this, do this, don't do that, do this, [00:53:00] but it's not going to be helpful. And I'm not saying any of this to be offensive. Nobody should be like, well, I don't feel like I can get up today. That's fine. You have to decide. Right? You have to find your why. Why are you here on this planet?

Who are you going to help? You know, do the who, what, where, when, and how. Yep. Make those choices. Once you have those five, you can move forward. You can start doing. Find a friend who is doing big things and see if you can help them in any way.

Ask them can I help you with your emails so that I can keep you on track so you don't miss anything. Can I do whatever? I don't, obviously, I don't know people's skills right now because I'm sitting here. I don't know people. It doesn't go outside. It's fine. It's scary out there and I'm allergic.

I [00:54:00] understand. But, there's also volunteer opportunities. I get people need to make money. But if looking for a job or getting some revenue started is not possible. Look into what you can do, and it doesn't have to be a lot of interaction with people if that doesn't work. If you love animals, look at the shelter.

You might not be cuddling animals all day, you might be cleaning, kennels, but You're around or packing lunches to distribute, doing something in the back, packing up school supplies to distribute to schools just to get out practice getting out in a low pressure situation and also. Making a commitment that you would feel really badly not keeping.

Yeah. If you're going to stay in bed, can you at least watch cute puppy videos to spark some dopamine in the brain? If you're not at the [00:55:00] point where you feel like you can get out of bed, there are things, you have your device, right? They have different things you can do with a phone to make money.

And no, I'm not talking about those game scam things. Please don't do those. Like, that's totally a scam and ain't nobody giving you money from them. Yeah. No, taking quizzes, I have a colleague who has a number of disabilities. A number, and for a long time her ability to work and gain revenue on a regular basis is Scotty.

But she started out making $2 to take a quiz, $3 to review a piece of software. That's just what she did as she could when she could. For those little bits, coming in. And then sometimes she does get bigger jobs, and then sometimes she cannot. With the mental health, when you are trying to move forward, after you've found your why, it's going to be [00:56:00] very important for you to help people.

Because the more you're helping someone, no matter what it is right with helping somebody You get that good feel good feeling right? I'm helping this person do XYZ So that makes me feel better because I'm helping And it also gives you that push because there are days, look, there are days when I don't want to get out of bed.

I had that this morning. I laid in that bed for a good 45 minutes because I was like, I am not getting up today. Oh, crap. I have that podcast. Okay. Yeah, I have to get up today. But, there's just, you have those days, they happen. But if you have something where you're supposed to be helping somebody, or you've made a commitment to meet with somebody, Then you have to

 Your word is your bond.

It is my [00:57:00] full belief that if you tell somebody you're going to do something, you do it. Doesn't matter to me. What? Like, if you are absolutely down because of COVID or whatever bid, Whatever new disease comes out, right? Okay, that's probably a good reason not to do the thing, right? Because we don't need to be making people sick by doing the thing when we're sick.

But at the same time, that can't be your excuse every time. Nobody's had COVID 300 times, okay? If you say you're going to go to a networking meeting, go. It's hard. I my second podcast was on networking. And the mental health side was on gamifying how to actually do something if you're like, Oh, no, I can't do it, I'm frozen, can't do it, you [00:58:00] know?

So, you gamify it.

If I get out of bed for three hours today, then I can do something special. I don't know what you'd have to decide that. Yeah, you just kind of okay. Well that's getting easy for me. I can stay out of bed for four hours now Okay, well now do it for eight hours And you know keep going keep building on it your last goal should be built upon never backtrack from a goal because that will make you start that will Defeat the purpose you'll slide backwards instead of full moving forward You

The whole point that I was trying to make with all of this is if you're not ready or you can't push, can't do, you don't know your why or whatever, do that. Do the groundwork. Lay it good because your groundwork is what's going to [00:59:00] keep you moving. Talk with a therapist. Do the things you need to do to get there.

My advice comes from how many years have I been in therapy now? A lot. Let's just say a lot. And I've had bad therapists. I had a therapist who decided that because I said I didn't want to wake up in the morning, when you go to bed type thing, I didn't want to wake up in the morning. He decided that was a three day offense.

I did not like that that was a three day offense and I was very upset with him. Who wants to wake up? It's weird. Right. Anyway. And I've had another, I had a therapist say a lot to me that I've just been through so much trauma. I know I've been through trauma. I would like you to stop saying that.

Right. That's just annoying me. You know, so I've had that kind of bad therapist. [01:00:00] The therapist I have now, both of them, Because I'm seeing two different people. They both know about each other. But they are really good at, helping me see where I'm going. And stuff I have great relationships with them.

But you have to have a support system, whether it's a therapist or just a regular person who you have bonded with and, can be there for you. The other thing you can't always blame your illness. I have never once in my life said I did this thing because I have bipolar, or I did that thing because I'm probably autistic, or I did this thing because of, that, right?

That does come into effect when it's physical, because like, my knees, I'm not climbing Mount Everest stairs, okay? It's not happening. I don't know why stairs are so hard. I can walk up a hill, a decent sized hill, pretty [01:01:00] good. But stairs my knees complain. So there are things I have to physically remove myself from just because it's painful But mentally you can't do that The more you back away and push yourself into a corner no matter what it is ptsd bpd Bipolar, autism

 But like anything you can't always blame that now can I blame The need for having to have sensory, making sure I have headphones on something Probably do I need to? No I just put them on and people either understand or they don't. I don't need to be shouting, I have autism, I have a right to be here.

Nobody cares. Everybody wants to walk with their life and let you walk with your life just however you need it. The one thing you can't do is start screaming [01:02:00] in public, that kind of thing. Nobody wants to hear that, right? But, the limits that you're putting on yourself because you're saying, Oh, I have this, or Oh, I have that.

This is why I do this. This is why I do that. Okay. No, they're excuses and I have them too. So like, I'm pointing to myself too, but they're excuses instead of saying, Oh, I have autism. I'm sorry. That's why I messed that up. Admit default without it. Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't plan correctly.

I will fix that moving forward. I think there's a big difference between using it as an excuse to other people, but identifying the awareness to yourself, you can say I did, I have sensory issues because I'm probably autistic, but what can I do about it? Because I don't need to tell everybody this.

I [01:03:00] can just do this or my bipolar or my emotional swings don't seem right to me. I probably should see somebody about that, but not put it out, scream it from the rooftops. I have this and so you need to excuse everything that I do from here on out. So it's super important that one is an awareness and one is using it as an excuse or an obstacle.

 For me. The sensory issues. I wear my headphones because I wear them at church. So I have been asked by, our bishop, what are you, why are you wearing those? And I tell him, it's because people like to let their kids scream in church. I don't know why people need to be reminded to shush their kids in church, but that's a thing too.

But I have sensory issues. It's very painful for me when kids scream because of the pitch of their voice. I can't handle it [01:04:00] So I have to wear headphones that block the sound so that I can survive this hour And he oh, okay. That's fine. They're fine I never once said oh, I might be autistic like they had nothing to do with the conversation because it was just Why are you using the headphones?

Because the sounds that the kids are screaming at You And it's too loud. I can't handle it. Oh, okay. Well, then you do what you have to do. Right? And you would have to say that anyway, because to simply say, I might be autistic doesn't mean anything to a person that doesn't know. Autism has on our mental, emotional and physical environments.

So with my podcast, my mental health stuff are my podcast in general is to teach people. I want to teach people different things that they can do with their business.

Okay, [01:05:00] so, you know, as we talked about today, we have the task paralysis. I've talked before about networking and gamifying things. I've talked before about how to prioritize your work. So you have your big things that you put in 1st, and then you put some smaller things in. And then you do smaller things and then you put water, you know, the whole jar thing from the college days.

Right? Right. I made that connection like halfway through that talk but all of that can only happen when you're ready to do. Right? None of those things are helpful to somebody who's staying. Who has not yet moved forward. So I'm not in meaning any offense to anybody in those situations.

You are in that spot because of things that should not have happened to you. [01:06:00] You are there because of things that should not happen to anyone. No matter what age it happened at, like it shouldn't happen to anyone. And I completely empathize, sympathize, empathize, because not only have I had those things happen, not only have I been in that spot where I could not move.

Because of the depression that was covering me like a heavy heavy like worse than you know I love my weighted blanket, but like five of them I wouldn't be able to move and that is kind of what some people feel when they're stuck and I totally get it But the process of moving those, shifting those blankets off of you so that you can move again, you have to acknowledge that yes, this thing was horrible.

Here's another thing I want to tell you that's different from what a lot of people will say. You don't have to forgive anybody. You don't have to forget [01:07:00] anything to move forward. You don't. I have people in my life, not in my life anymore because they're dead. Thank God, but I didn't do anything to them you want to be clear?

Let's be clear. I didn't do that. But I still haven't forgiven them Okay, I may not like I'll probably go into the afterlife and kick tail and take names because of what happened to me Right. Yeah I have that right to say I'm not forgiving you until I can talk to you face to face, and I can't do that with either of them because they're dead, and so I don't forgive them, I don't, I have not forgotten, but I have moved forward, I'm not stuck.

At 11 anymore. Do I want old people around me? Not exactly. But I'm moving forward. [01:08:00] Right? I am putting one foot in front of the other. And I am helping people. I am helping people with this podcast. I am helping people with the work I do. Because, let me tell you, some of the people I work with are not computer experts.

So I'm glad that I get to take on that work for them. And get things done in a way that they didn't think they would be able to do it. It's fine, I love that. But that's how I help people with knowledge that I've just kind of picked up because I can learn programs easy. So, that helped me cut out of the brain fog of depression.

I still have a hundred problems with me. I still have a thousand medical, I have a thousand medical things after my name. I got the alphabet soup. But it ain't even a good one like doctor of or all them other ones, right? I got a [01:09:00] cheapo alphabet soup that everything looks like a no, okay?

But and that's for his physical and mental I am NOT okay But I work at it every single day to be able to go and do and be And until you're ready to let go of those labels, to let go of everything, and just say that is something that I can deal with after I'm dead, maybe, because I can't handle it right now.

That's fine. I know a lot of therapists are big on the, you have to forgive everybody who's hurt you. No? You don't have to take that advice. You don't have to forgive anybody. You don't have to hug anybody. You don't have to let people touch you. You don't have to let people do anything to you.

Right? Unless you go to a chiropractor and you're paying him to touch you. The biggest [01:10:00] message that I want to come from me is You can move forward from the worst things. I have had some horrible crap happen to me. I have some horrible things where my body hates me.

But, I can move forward. I can still do things. And, so can anyone else. If they follow the steps. Find your why, and go help someone. Until the fog lifts. It's gonna be hard. This is not Rainbows and Sunshine time. That will come later. Right now it's time to get to work. Yeah, like I, I kind of like to say, but maybe it never will be rainbows and sunshine.

 I like to say, you don't have to love yourself. But you can just be neutral. Like, I hate [01:11:00] myself. Well, tell yourself, look in the mirror and say, I love you. And I'm like, that's ridiculous. But I can be neutral. I don't have to be body positive. But I can be neutral. I don't have to hate it. There's a big space between where people think you should be and where you are.

And along the way, you can just be neutral.

So, I'm not saying you have to fix yourself for anybody else. You're not. Doing the work. You can't do the work for anybody else. It has to be for you. It has to be for you. Because if you're, oh, well, I'm going to do better because my best friend is doing better than me. And I want to do better than her.

What if she gets a big raise all of a sudden and starts making millions, and you never get [01:12:00] there? How are you ever going to be happy with your life? Or even content with your life? Because you're so far behind her, and you thought you could be better than her. Do not compare yourself to others. Comparison is the thief of all joy.

Yes, I was just going to say that. I was going to say, Brene Brown says I don't even know who said it. I didn't know. Brene Brown is the person I remember. She might have Gotten it from somebody else. But yes, comparison is the joy. Because and I've said this, I've said this at church. I've said this probably in another one of these podcasts again.

I don't know. I say it a lot. But if you go outside and decide that you're going to think that you are better than that homeless person that's sitting there going through a hard time, right? You have a house, you have an apartment, you have whatever, you're doing so much better than them. I'm great. I'm doing good.

I'm better than them. What [01:13:00] happens in a week or two, because it has happened, when that homeless person is standing on that corner with a new sign, this is I don't need your money. Thank you for all your help. I now have a job and an apartment. Thank you so much. Now what are you going to do?

You are going to cannonball to the deep and beyond Because, all of a sudden, you're not better than him anymore. So you can't be thinking you're better than anyone. We're all on a different path in our journey. And I hate saying that word now because of stupid chat GPD. And everything's a journey to AI.

But, it really is a journey when you're talking about mental health. Because it's not, like, day one is not the end. Day one is definitely the beginning no matter where you are in your part of it. And so you just I just want everybody [01:14:00] to be better I want to not have to think about the things that have happened to me I want to be able to go to doctor's appointments and be completely normal, right?

But guess what? Normal doesn't exist. It doesn't. There's no such thing as normal. Because guess what? Even the person that you think is so called normal will be weird to somebody else. Yeah, I think So, normal doesn't exist. After a lot of more evolution, the words neurotypical and neurodivergent will not exist anymore because who decided what neurotypical was?

Like you say, somebody on the outside might be normal, they might be the biggest demon behind closed doors, they might, I mean, we don't know what's in their head. We have seen terrible, terrible, terrible people in history who, oh, but they were the nicest guy, belonged to the church, and he did this, and he volunteered, and yes, and he also, [01:15:00] you ate a lot of people along the way in secret, so we don't know what, that certainly isn't neurotypical.

Yeah, so like I said, whoever you're holding up is normal, somebody else will think they're completely odd and shoot, you know, whatever. And look, let's remember every single time that they interview somebody who lived near a serial library. It's always oh he was so quiet and he was so great to have as a neighbor and it's just he was doing We liked having him here Okay So those people thought he was normal.

Do you want to be considered normal now? I don't think so. I don't want to be a Serial unaliver i'm not saying the other word because hold on would you do that with it?

Life is hard. Don't make it harder by comparing yourself to others. [01:16:00] Don't com Don't Life is hard. Don't compare yourself to whatever alphabet soup somebody else puts behind your name. If you go and you become a doctor, congratulations, you have the good alphabet soup. If you become somebody with mental health problems, I am so sorry.

You now have no's and oh's, soup, after your name. Okay? You get to choose what your boundaries are. Whether you're normal or not, you get to live your life by doing things that matter to you. So you don't like going outside, you don't want to do that, that's okay. I work from home every single day.

I leave the house once a week for doctor's appointments and on Sunday for church. I am a creature of a habit And you can do you [01:17:00] right if you have doctor's appointments, then there's that you have them Maybe you have a tablet you could bring with you and you can still be working on that piece of art that you're doing for somebody or you know what if you are having problems figuring out what you can do to help others You Contact me, come join my, discord channel, that I am starting, and I will help you.

We can have a discussion, and we can figure out what you want. Can do to help others. What is your strong suit? I will do hour long consult with anybody to help them figure out You know what? They should what they could be doing and it could be Because it's totally up to you Even if you come talk to me and you don't like what I have to say i'm gonna do something else.

Okay [01:18:00] So

I am going to be starting to do some, recordings of some of the apps and, different programs that I use, not only for my podcast, but for when I'm working. And that will be on a playlist on YouTube once I start doing those. I'm not sure, when that will come out. I'm also putting together a, Welcome to Alignable type course, so that people can connect on Alignable.

 A lot of my business has come from Alignable, and so, would love to help other people be able to do that. And it's just all starting to roll.