Simplifying Funnels and Mental Health Stigmas with Holly Homer

Join Nikki as she chats with the inspiring Holly Homer about her journey from starting one of the first mom blogs to creating Pagewheel, a user-friendly funnel builder empowering small business owners. Holly opens up about the struggles of simplifying tech for non-techies and the community-driven evolution of her software. Later, the conversation shifts to a candid discussion on breaking the stigma around mental health, personal growth, and finding resilience in adversity. Whether you're here for entrepreneurial tips or heartfelt insights on mental well-being, this episode is packed with value and inspiration.

[00:00:00] Hi, I'm Holly Homer from page wheel is where I met Nikki. Yes. I love page feel now.

So where do you want me to get started? Nikki? I know there's so many things that we can talk about today. So where, where do we want to get started? That makes sense to where you want to get this conversation going. Where did page will come from, you know, give some history and then how it evolved into what it is.

And what are some of the hopes for future? That sounds great. I want the sneak peeks that nobody else has yet. So they have to watch my podcast to get them. I love it. So, a little background on me. So it makes sense. sense of where page will came from is, about a little over 20 years ago, I accidentally started one of the first mom blogs.

But we didn't know what that was at the time or why that was a thing, or even if it was a thing. And I just started writing about my kids. I'd been, Between [00:01:00] two and three little boys at that time that I was raising as a stay at home mom. And we like, I didn't know anything about tech. I'm not tech savvy or anything.

I just was one of those people that was just, you know, found it. Kind of fun to share things online and it was cheaper than scrapbooking. So that's how I got started. And so fast forward through the years is that, that property, which started out as June Cleaver Nirvana moved into bigger and bigger and people started buying it.

And I started getting opportunities because I, of what I was writing. And I ran into Rachel Miller I'm in Dallas. And so I ran at that time DFW bloggers. Cause back then everybody was anonymous, you know, it was pre Facebook, pre Twitter, pre social media at all. And so we were writing anonymously, so we didn't even know.

It's why I like. Send out a call like, Hey, is there anyone in the, you know, in this area that is actually here that would be willing to meet at a public [00:02:00] location, you know, because of course, everybody thought there were X murderers on the internet.

So I started this this thing, DFW bloggers, and we just would get together generally at a mall or a play place of some place because we all had, a lot of us had kids. And so I met Rachel at, at the mall. So we hit it off. She invited me over to her house. And so I went over with my kids and she at that time had four kids.

I had three and we were sitting at our kitchen table and just like, you know, If you've ever met Rachel, this makes sense to you. Like we were just like sat down and you know, this is like our second meeting. And she looked at me and she goes, I think I need to sell my blog. And I was like, and I looked at her, I said, I think I need to buy your blog.

And this was like 15 years ago. And she had a blog called quirky mama, which was all about kind of like the actual activity [00:03:00] she was doing with her kids. And I was doing. a mom blog about my children, which like they were just getting into kindergarten. And I realized that I can't just write about my children.

Like this is going to mark them for life. Like they're not my stories to tell anymore. And so I bought Rachel's blog and turned it into kids at what is now kidsactivities. com. And and it was for me, it was the ability to keep Doing something in the blogging space without ruining my children's lives forever and ever and for her The amount I offered her because I had just bought another blog Was exactly what she needed to to finish an adoption of two more children that she did and so it was like one of those things that was meant to be And then off and on through many many years since then we've been partners And so we have some sites together and stuff like that It's so about Three years ago, I was just lamenting, because here again, I'm a low tech, [00:04:00] even though I make my living on the internet.

I was just like, why is it so hard to put a simple funnel up? Like we were creating all these like digital products, like planners and guides and, Like tips and tricks that we were using for opt ins and low ticket products, like under 20 products. And we were putting those on our blog just to increase like income and give our readers resources that they were asking for workbooks, that kind of stuff.

And it was taking us six, seven hours to put a funnel together. That, you know, that would connect everything and deliver it. And then the software that we were using was 300 a month. When I started and we w we had done about 10 of these funnels with 10 different products. And I was like, Oh my gosh, like I have to sell like 30 of these.

To just break even every single month, which is so stupid. And that doesn't even count all these hours that we [00:05:00] put into it. And then when something like Rachel was really the good, the one that could build the funnel, but then I was doing the customer service. And so if something went wrong or the zap didn't, you know, zap, I didn't know how to fix it and it was just this nightmare.

It's like, why is this so hard? hard. We're just trying to give something away. We're just trying to sell it for two dollars. Like, why is this so hard? And Rachel's like, I think I can automate this. So she went back and she comes back another week or two and she goes, okay, She goes, I think we can automate it.

But like, I think it's bigger than just you and me. I think we should make a software. And then I'm like, Oh, okay, Rachel.

Because that's what I do all the time. How do you go? How do you make that leap, especially as somebody who doesn't know tech to be like, okay, we're gonna make our own software. That to me is not [00:06:00] This was not the first time Rachel had a big idea that I like nodded and went along with.

And Rachel's fault. It's totally Rachel's fault. And, and I think, but that's one of the things that makes our partnership really good is like, she has these really big, crazy ideas that I think most people would be like, Oh, we can't do that. And I'm, but I've seen, I've been with her before doing these things.

And so I'm always like, okay, let's try. I mean, like. What's the harm in trying and then what's she's really good at like the big picture like running and and Creating and being super creative in places that nobody else could even think and then I kind of run behind her Trying to pick up the pieces Those are my roles that's my role And then at some point she gets bored and then I take over.

And so we had done this several times in the past. And so [00:07:00] I just assumed, I thought this will be like, like six months, a year out of my life,

three years later. Vastly underestimated that. We vastly did because. We, when we knew there was a problem, we knew that the traditional funnel software was meant for really tech savvy, committed people that just loved building these things. And it was not for me and it was not for the average, you know, your average person that's running a small business online doesn't want to stop their business, go learn You know, and I had been in, like, for instance, ClickFunnels high level coaching program for two years.

So, it's not like I hadn't ever built a funnel, or hadn't been aware of how to do it. Philosophically, I think it's a [00:08:00] beautiful thing. The hands on ability for me to sit down and build it, and, and not just, Like knock my head on the desk while doing so it's just it's just zero So I had paid people to build funnels I knew about all the steps I knew philosophically what we're doing Why was it so hard?

Why why why why why when? Generally your sales pages have the same elements

And then when we're talking about a digital product, and we were thinking digital product, digital product. So we, that's what we started with a digital product builder. Like, so you can make your workbook. And then, by the way, in the middle of this, and in fact, it was very early in it, AI came out. So we started using AI behind the scenes to create digital product templates and all this kind of stuff.

And so and what we found is what's so [00:09:00] cool is we knew we want a digital product. We want a sales page, we want a delivery page, we want a delivery email, we want social media. And so we had set this all up. And then what we realized is, oh my gosh, with AI. We already know what you just built so we can automatically make you a sales page, delivery page and all this other stuff because we know what you just felt.

You just built it here in page wheel. And so then what's really exciting is as that has grown and you've been a part of this Nikki and as we've seen how our users use it is that we've now been able to say, Oh, well you don't have to do the digital product. You just tell us what you build and you can make it.

So it turned into instead of just something simple that, you know, helps us just sell digital products online. It's actually become a really simple funnel builder in you know, in effect where you just feel like, cause we know how to build a funnel. Cause we do it all the time and it's automatic. And with [00:10:00] AI that can be really helpful.

And so now all you have to do is tell us, and instead of spending. Five, six hours building a funnel is you can literally do it in, I don't know, five minutes. I know that sounds crazy for those of you who built a funnel before it's literally five minutes. And you may want to go in and of course, edit what I said, because it's never perfect, but it's, oh, my gosh, it's built.

And I'm just making a few changes.

So, I came across page wheel, I believe at the beginning of last year, because of Tanya. And I started paying for it right away, but I did that thing where I had so much going on with other programs that I just kind of forgot it was there. Yes, when I did other things. And then Tanya reminded me, she's like, do you have page we on?

I'm like. Yeah, you remind you, you made me get that at the beginning of the year. I really should be using that

and [00:11:00] she's like, oh, that's great. There's a class. I want you to start coming to these classes. I want you to start, you know, getting involved and actually working with it. And I was like, okay, great. Yeah, I'll do that. And like, learning more about it at that point was like, oh, wait. Why did I push this aside for a minute?

Well, and I think I think not all of that is your fault either because I think early on We didn't really know what we were, you know What I mean like because we were solving our problems and then as our beautiful beautiful customers came in and told we're showing us how they were using it in different ways and how You know, I was like pretty much everything You At the beginning, almost every use case was a hack to our system.

And so when, when, and what's so been so lovely is Is our the people who code page wheel are directly part of our team. We don't have [00:12:00] someone managing them, Rachel and I manage them. And so when we see feedback come in from our customers that are like, Hey, you know, what would be cool, or this doesn't make sense.

And y'all are really good about giving us feedback, which is lovely. Or like, why is the button there? And then we're like, I don't know. Why is the button there? Or or why? Why didn't we build that in? And so this has been such an evolving thing, and it's gonna continue to evolve over the next few months.

I'm in really, really exciting ways because as we've gotten a bigger user base, as we see how people are actually using it on a day to day basis, we're making changes and improvements to serve them better. And it's just made our software a kajillion times better. And I can't I'm so proud of what we've done just because like all of like the nightmare of the last three years of like hitting our head against like, you know, [00:13:00] like, yes, a low tech girl creating software, but in the end, it had to be that way, or else we don't have something super user friendly because we see.

And I don't even think it's competition because we're in a different classification. I would say that our competitors, because by the way, even our most expensive subscription is under 50 a month, because we want you to be able to be profitable. With a 5 product or a 10 product or a 2 product. So that's, what's so fun about it is it's just a different product and it's so easy.

You don't need tech skills. In fact, you Nikki are funny because you have all these tech skills and then sometimes you're like, But why? And I'm like, because it's easy. And you're like, I don't need it that easy. I'm like, you know, but everybody else does. So I did end up having one problem that took some work to [00:14:00] fix because my, my VPN and page wheel did not want to play together.

I remember that. That took a while, but like, you guys got me in front of the, one of the coders, I think. And we talked through it, like I showed him what was happening and I think they fixed it because that problem, I'm thinking, like, let's knock on some wood. I think it's a fix because I haven't run into that problem in a while.

Well, if I remember correctly, it was a completely white screen. So if you've been using it. No, it was ends. It was ends everywhere. Remember, like, slash end everywhere. Oh my gosh. No, it was just like, what happened here? We get the weirdest things. Yeah, and the other thing it's taught me just as a business owner is like one of the things I think is really important is I do the customer service right now, like all of it.

And that's why I've got to know you and some other people really well. And I think that makes the software just so much better, especially here at first, is that. I'm, I [00:15:00] obviously use it every day in my own cause I still run another business. I use it every day. And then I hear from, I hear all the good, bad, and ugly, mostly bad and ugly from through customer service.

And it just makes us quicker and faster and better immediately. So I've never, when people are always like, I'm so sorry. I'm like, no, no, this is how we get better. This is how, this is how this isn't a problem for everybody else. So. So, but yeah, we appreciate the patience because obviously, anytime you try to do something new that we're not following up, you know, we're not pulling in code from some other source or something like that, where we're made it from the ground up has a drawback of, you know, the bleeps along the way, the end product is so much, so much easier because we, we're not, what I love about part of what we've done is we've A lot of these, these other softwares had a software and then they layered AI into it.[00:16:00] 

Mm-hmm . And so it just made something complicated, almost more complicated. Whereas with us, we had made something that we put AI into to assist us, and then we realized, oh my goodness, our users could use this too. And so we forward faced it and after what we had already done, and so now our users can actually use ai.

In a way that build something immediately. It's not like you go somewhere and then you get a list a to do list like from check TPT. You're like actually within page wheel you put you put in what you how you want it to go and I assist you along the way. And that will get better and better as we get better and better.

I'm looking forward to it because I'm not going anywhere now that I know what it can do. I love it. I appreciate it so much. And I like being able to help other people who are learning it. Because yes, I am the techie. I am the one that can figure out the stuff really quickly. And [00:17:00] Pagewheel is one of those things where because it's so easy to use, I walked in and went, Oh, okay.

Except for that one issue with Nord where my screen was doing the ends. Which was a weird one. And like, literally no one else in the world had that problem. You're special. He grabbed on to me. I was like, what is happening? And then we figured it out that it was the safety settings of my Nord were not playing nicely with yours.

I don't know. It was weird. And because I'm a techie, I do not have the, did you restart it problems? Yeah. I have the we have catastrophic problems. But I love what you said about like, like you love to help other people. And oftentimes what I'm sure you run into is the people that you're helping don't have your tech skills.

And so that, and I think that that's why, like, I was so tired of feeling stupid every time [00:18:00] I tried to do something when I was like, why, why is this payment not going in? Why is this email not going out? You know, with the just the traditional thing and then you start having to realize you have to be like this too.

Funnel surgeon to go in and diagnose problems and stuff. And so that's what I like about page wheel is we really made it super simple. So even if you've never built anything before, you basically follow the steps. It's kind of like a little bit like the early that, like the first time I set up a blog you know, 21 years ago my friend was like, Hey, I'm Go to blogspot.

com, you know, and basically you filled out a form and you, you know, what do you want to name your blog? What do you want to, you know, you filled out a form. And before I even knew it, I had a blog and I think that's what's so fun about page wheel is it kind of, it takes you back to those early days of fill this out, tell us what you want.

[00:19:00] And it will be made like you don't have to, you know, because you ever since those early days I had to hire, you know, somebody to do a WordPress site for me to do all my tech and stuff like that. And you don't have to do that with PageMill unless you want to. I'm the 1 people come to with help with their WordPress site.

And then if it's above my head, I go to, you know, somebody else who I know works with it, you know, and at a different level and say, okay, it's not working. Help me and. They'll usually, Oh, well, if you do this, it'll fix it. Oh, okay. Then I'm done. I love it. Yeah. No, that's not my strength, but it's, it's why we need people in the world.

Like, both of us,

you get them stuck. I get them out of it. I like it.

But yeah, I had a conversation this morning with Cynthia. Because she [00:20:00] scheduled time with me because she was a little stuck. Yeah, and just one of the things that I've noticed, not just with Cynthia, but with some of the other people in the group. Is while they might have their generic understanding of what page wheel can do when it comes time to start doing the posts in Canva.

Some of them are having problems. She didn't know that you could put more than 1 brand in. Yeah, yeah. And so I was like, no, I've got like 10 of them. What do you mean? You can only put 1 brand in. What are you talking about? I went in and I showed her yeah, put the brand in, which means you put the logos in their fonts in their colors in any photos that they regular, you know, like the.

The person's phone, whatever that you need to use, you put all that right there. So you'll have it every single time. And she was just, she was like,

but I thought that was generic knowledge. I [00:21:00] didn't know any better. But I like helping people With page wheel or with anything else because like seeing that frustration Pop into oh my god. That's how easy it is Today I feel good now That's what I'm yeah, and I think that's what's so fun is because

And this is one of the reasons why not everything should be hard because we all come with our like zone of genius and then we have these obstacles of often tech in the way. And so when and one of the things I love about the page bill community is and our customers are. Crazy smart in so many ways and they get together like you say And work together on some of these things because you guys are so smart in different ways and can share And just be a blessing to everybody because there's no like there's enough room in this world for [00:22:00] all of us like and The fact that we're teaching similar things sometimes is a blessing, you know, to be able to move forward with each other's knowledge.

And so we don't have to reinvent the wheel every single time we do anything. So I just love that about it. And it's, it's just so fun to hear people and see their success. Because like, it is so true that together we rise like so and it's more fun. There's a, so I work with some people who are direct sellers or multilevel marketers, however, you want to put that and they have that thing where it's rising rising tides lift all boats.

And while page wheel is nowhere near an mlm It it does kind of have the same philosophy because you know Once you're in the the group with everybody if you get stuck there's like I can help with tech there's other people who can help [00:23:00] probably with like the amazon books and There's people who can help with whatever else like there's people in the group that are willing to share of their knowledge and I have appreciated that a lot because I may know tech but that doesn't mean I don't look at something and go what am I doing?

Yeah and you know it's interesting that you mention network marketing because I have been involved in pretty much every single network marketing company known to known to man or woman. And and one of the things I like, I know it gets a bad rap sometimes, and I know there's crazy ones out there. So I get it.

In fact, I've been screwed by several, but what I love about that is you can start a business for a few dollars. with no risk. I mean, I'm not talking about the ones where they make you buy in for thousands of dollars. I'm talking about the one where you might spend a hundred dollars on something that you're going to use anyway, and you get to set up a business [00:24:00] and then you get to test it out.

And if you love it, you can literally make millions of dollars. And if you don't love it, you just go do something else. And so. And then, like you said, one of the really good parts is the community that has evolved. So I love that we've taken some of the good things from that is like low price, great community.

If it's for you, you can run with it. If it's not, you cancel and you're, you, you met a few nice people and you go on your way. Like it's, there's no risk that it's a win win situation.

I have met a lot of people. I'm the very first. Time that I went into a class and Rachel was teaching, she kept going. Nikki knows she's been here before and I'm sitting there going.

No, I haven't. It's the first time I'm in here. What are you talking about? And then [00:25:00] I noticed that there's another Nikki in the room. And she spelled her name exactly like me. Is that crazy? And I was so confused. Like, are you talking about me? Are you talking about her? And then I went into another class with her before, you know, I got there early.

Yeah. I usually do. Military brat. If you're not early, you're late. So I get in there and me and her are talking and she's talking to me like she's known me for years and I was like, do we know each other? Did like, I just grew up? What happened here? She's like, no, we've talked a bunch of times before and I'm going, when?

So, I'm still not sure if she got me mixed up with the other Nikki or what happened there, but like, yeah, and that class, she picked on me like six different times. I'm like, is the other Nikki in here? I love it. You know, she's never met a [00:26:00] stranger to begin with, and you never have that, like, Oh, I need to say the right thing to Rachel.

No, I was just confused. I was like, does she know if she's talking to somebody who's new to these meetings? Because I don't think she does. I love it. Love it. Love it. Love it. But I did get a lot of questions answered. So that was good. I kind of was able to get more up to speed because she kept going, right, Nikki, did you do this thing?

And I'm like, Yeah You help me with the image for my Facebook page, so I've done lots of cool things because of Rachel But it's been, it was a little weird at the beginning because I could have sworn she was talking to somebody else talking to me. It's like, I don't think you know who I am. That's hysterical [00:27:00] confusing for me for a long time because I just kind of kept going.

And actually, if you look back at the tapes, there's one of me going, Is the other Nikki in here or something? You can't be calling on me this much. She's like, no, no, no, I'm talking about you. And I'm like, What I love it. Love it. Love it. Love it I mean, she's a great person and I have learned a lot from her since I started Absolutely.

Absolutely appreciate her and you All this stuff yesterday, I think it was I messaged you going Am I being stupid or is this slow? I think it was slow because the team got on it right away and we were able to, because yeah, I was seeing kind of the same thing you were, but then by the time I went back and checked, it was good.

So I think, I think, [00:28:00] you know. I'm trying to move a page up, and it wouldn't let me move it up, and I'm like, is this me? I know, sometimes we just try to make you feel crazy. Everything does that. There are days where I swear I've done that thing a thousand times before, but now it's telling me I'm doing it wrong, and I've never done it like that before.

That's, that is crazy. 

Hey everyone, thanks for sticking with us. Before we dive into our next topic, I just want to take a quick moment to remind you to like this video, subscribe to our channel, and hit that notification bell. That way, you'll always be the first to know when a new episode drops. And we want to hear from you.

What topics are you most excited about? Drop your thoughts in the comments below. Your feedback helps us create content that you love. We've got some exciting stuff coming your way, so don't miss out. Now, let's [00:29:00] switch gears and jump into our next discussion.

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That's such a really good segue. Because I know one of the things that we wanted to talk about today is kind of, you know, and using the word crazy is probably not appropriate, although sometimes I think we all feel that way sometimes. But the stigma around, you know, like, when, When you don't feel like your brain is working on the same cylinders that other people are, or your strengths are perceived as weaknesses to other people, you know, when, and you know, I have three boys who are now my youngest is 19.

So I, I've been able to, you know, see them from go through, go through everything. And we have, all sorts of issues in our house from sensory processing disorder to, you know, I mean like just crazy, crazy stuff. And I just [00:30:00] remember like I belong to a, a pretty active kind of homeschooling group that was that was all different aged kids.

And we started when they were little. So it started out as kind of a play group and we'd go to the park and stuff like that. And there was probably, I don't know, maybe 10 or 12 kids that were, you know, And we were laughing one day they were all out on the playground and the moms were sitting on the picnic tables and we just looked out at them and we're like, Oh my gosh, every single one of them has issues.

You know, like one had a terrible peanut allergy. One was autistic. One was, you know, I mean like you just, you just go down there and like, and that is what makes. them amazing and look how they interact so differently together and if they were all cookie cutter how bored we would be. So I think one of the things that like we see that in children a lot but we don't necessarily allow adults to be that way [00:31:00] too and I think that's one of the beautiful things about having conversations like this.

So in my last podcast, I talked to a guy and I pointed out that, you know, that statement you get anytime something bad happens. Oh, God had a reason for that. There's always a reason, you know, there's always a reason it, you know, you shouldn't worry about it anymore. That is basically people trying to force you to be okay again.

They don't want to see you crying. They don't want you to be upset. They want it to go away and they want things to be normal again. And I say that because things are never normal with me. What is normal? We lost that ship a long time ago. So there are a couple, I think, okay. So, when we talk about having a stigma with mental health in adults, right?

Yeah, there are reasons for it. [00:32:00] Mostly. I think it's your parent was shut up. You're you're just talking stupid. It goes, you know, go calm down and you'll be fine. And then you can go be normal again. Because that's not a thing that used to happen in my day. Yeah. You know, that it didn't happen in my day statement is the stupidest one because it did happen, but you said that stupid statement then, too, so like It didn't happen because everybody was squashing it.

So there's that. But on the other side You have people, and this is probably going to cause offense, but whatever, you have people who are like, I have PTSD and like, that means I can't do this activity ever again. Yeah, yeah, you know, or they bring every time you want to go out to Russia, you know, I'm, I have PTSD, I [00:33:00] can't go there.

I say the valley girl boys just a little bit. I was born in the valley. So you're good.

To the point being, it becomes their like badge of honor, like, every single time they want to do something, or if somebody says something, the slightest bit. You know, it's why we can't say sewer slide or why I have to say sewer slide instead of the real word, because, you know, people are stupid.

Do you really think I want to sit here saying sewer slide? I sound like an idiot. I don't like it. Yeah, I would much rather just be able to talk like a normal human being right going, but you have people who get triggered over everything. And now you've pushed back. The acceptance of mental health, because you're being sorry for my language, a little baby.

Yeah, yeah. Right. Well, I personally have gone through a lot of stuff. Yeah, I'm not saying that you [00:34:00] haven't gone through whatever it is you've gone through. Right. But whatever you've gone through can't be everybody else's problem. Thing that I do because of my problems. Well, it's two things. I don't like to be touched.

So I do ask people not to touch me. That should be okay. Like, yeah, I also have a compromised immune system. So not touching me also helps me not get sick. So like, yeah. And then on the other hand, I am never going to be the person who walks up to somebody who looks like they're 80 years old and starts talking to them freely and comfortably.

It's not gonna happen. I'm not walking up to Santa Claus and talking to him. You can stay away from me, thank you very much, because that is my trigger. But I don't like, I don't shove that down everybody's throat usually. I only said it here as an example, right? Yeah. But there are [00:35:00] people who are like whatever happened happened after I had dinner out at a restaurant.

So now I'm going to make my friends feel guilty because they want to go to a restaurant. Right. Stop it. People are going to live their lives. You should be living your life. Yeah, well, do I make sure I'm safe around certain people because of things that have happened to me? Yes. Yes. Yes, I do. And I have every right to make sure that I am safe around those people or any people, right?

Like, I don't I shouldn't have to, like. Say anything at the same time. I don't, you know, like, when I go to church, I put headphones on because I have sensory issues. That organ is so loud. Yes. Okay. And while I could sit at home and comfortably listen to my, my music at a volume. That is probably uncomfortable for others.

I cannot go and listen to music. That is not my music [00:36:00] At a volume that is uncomfortable for me Right, right start to try to like claw my way out of places Not good, but I do what I need to do quietly the you know, my Bishop knows why I wear the headphones. He under, you know, we've had that discussion and he's fine with it, right?

Right. You have to do that to stay safe. Then you do that. Yeah well well And I think it's also like I love that because like when If you do sit down and ask somebody and they ask you about it. It allows you to have a Normal, since we're putting air quotes about that conversation about that. Like, Oh, you know what?

Like I just a little sensitive to the organ music and this just helps me cope that other person. Like then understands more about what's going on, has empathy is, and, and can look at [00:37:00] themselves and say, Oh my goodness, there's something I'm like that in something else. I hate the lights in a grocery store.

Like they are like, in fact, there's some grocery stores I can't even go into because they're great. I don't know what about it. They drive me like it's just drives me insane. And so like, so like when you say, Hey, I need to do this. I'm like, Oh, well, I get it. Cause I'm like that with a grocery store light.

And guess what? No big deal. It's over. Hello. We're now we're back. Listen. So. Yeah. So for the mental health stigma that we have at the moment, there are obviously those two camps that are bad, and then you have the ones that are like, Oh, you had 10 bad things happen to you, we totally understand that you have 10, 000 things you'll never do again, and we will happily listen to every single one and remember them.

I am so sorry about your walk Chica, I am not gonna do that. Yeah, yeah, I can respect. Certain [00:38:00] boundaries, because they are reasonable. Am I going to learn what 10, 000 triggers you have? So I don't step on your toes. No, because I shouldn't have to well, even if I'm your best friend, if I'm your best friend, I'm going to be real with you.

And I'm going to be like, okay. I understand that these bad things happen to you, but we need to get you to a point. So maybe therapy. I have two therapists and I've said it multiple times on this show. I have two therapists. We are always working on me. Like, I am not coming at this from a point of saying you are evil, stupid or whatever.

That's not it. I am coming at this from the point where if you want the people around you to understand what you're going through and to be able to help you when you're panicking for whatever reason, then you have to be reasonable. And 10, 000 dislikes and 10, 000 triggers is not reasonable. Well, nobody's going to [00:39:00] be able to remember all of that.

It's also not healthy for you because to, I mean, you know, one of the things that's a benefit of being 50, old. I'm driving. Is that I've been on this planet a really long time. And you know, in fact, I was talking to one of my kids about this the other day is, and he was like, well, when you're old and I'm like, yeah, when you're old, you still You still have the brain of a teenager.

You like, you, you don't, you, like, you're still growing. Like it, it, it, but when you think back, no matter what your age today about how, how at every stage, you misperceived the stage ahead. And so one of the things I would just say to anyone of any age thing is that one of the beautiful things about lives is that we're growing.

And becoming better people, better lives, and one of [00:40:00] the most beneficial things to that is obstacles. And so, and everybody's obstacles are different. If yours happens to be, you know, some mental issues, some, some mental obstacles, some triggers, Those are things that when you overcome or when you get them, and by overcome that makes you sound like, oh, I'll never have to deal with that again.

And that's not necessarily what it is. It's like you've gotten to a place of coping and calmness with that. You've solved the You know, you may not have solved the big problem, but you've solved the obstacle in a way that you can move forward. And that becomes part of the path that teaches you the next step.

And, but like you say, if you are enabled to be wallowing in that at all times and building on that, I'm putting more obstacles in front of yourself that is a disservice [00:41:00] to your soul and and it makes my heart hurt because when people enable that and are like, no, like, there's third, we're going to, you know, we're going to work on those 32 avoiding those 32 things that's really saying.

Nikki, you're not strong enough to overcome any of those. And that's not true. We know you're strong enough to overcome all of them. It just may take a while. It may take a really long, you may not even be alive by the time you conquer them all. But, but when you, when you just enable that in, and so I completely agree with you.

Like to a certain extent, it's not loving. You wouldn't treat your own children that way. So to treat your best friend or to treat like, you know, random acquaintances that way, I think is really and I say that with love, not not to mock them or or say something ugly about it. Yeah yeah, I'm not here to mock people or anything.

I'm trying to make people [00:42:00] aware. Yeah. And once you have awareness, once you can name it. Oh, wait, I'm doing this. Right. Once you can say, hey, I am beating the stigma that happens with mental health by always crying when I go out to a restaurant with my friends and making them comfort me the whole time.

Right. First of all, that's very toxic and I would hope that your friend group at some point decided to start going to lunch on their own. Yeah. And let you out of it. Yeah, right because I wouldn't want to deal with somebody who's crying all the time Well, I think it's different if you're like, hey this is my problem You know, I have this situation where this, you know, I always end up in tears Can we can you help me?

Can we find ways to? To not wallow in that and to like move forward with it so that I can't, because it is [00:43:00] like, it's miserable for everyone around you, but think of how miserable the person that is experiencing that, like, any sort of progress is going to be progress in that situation. Yeah. So for me, when I go out to a restaurant, I'm not allowing them to place me in the middle of the room.

That makes total sense. You are not coming up behind me. That ain't happening. I am going to be placed somewhere where nobody or at least few people can come up behind me and startle me because that's a good way. And I'm, I'm real honest when I say this, that's a good way to get hit is to startle me by coming up behind me because my arms do the automatic flail and I might hit people.

I've done it in the past. You've just come up behind me, startled the crap out of me, and now you've had a fist in your face, not as a, here's a fist in the face. Like, it happened because of the situation that was happening. It was a startle reflex. I did not, like, [00:44:00] want to hit them in the face, and I didn't mean to.

Yeah, it's a fight or flight. You can't, you can't control that. So so I make sure that my back is covered because I don't want to That and I have, like, I go to a restaurant every week and I have lunch every Tuesday out and about and like, I'll have different professional people join me or friends or whatever.

Join me. So that, you know, I am out and about and I'm having lunch. I love that. It's a thing. I'm just not putting my back to anybody because I'm not doing that. Yeah. Not having. Well, that doesn't hurt anyone else. In fact, it saves them but the point is. I make the necessary arrangements. Like, I sit somewhere where I know I can feel safe.

If that is what you need in order to go to a restaurant and have fun, do it. Make sure your social [00:45:00] group knows, hey, pick a table, doesn't matter what table, where somebody can't come up behind me and I will 100 percent not start balling on you when I punch somebody in the face. Yeah. You know. So, you know, those kind of things are easy to do, but you do want to be careful restaurant thing like that.

That's that's a nothing thing. So, let's say you don't like going to Walmart because it's really loud and remind you of something. I don't know. Right? And so you decide I'm never going to Walmart again.

That's not the decision you should make.

Maybe you go to Walmart under certain conditions. Maybe you have a friend with you, you know, make sure that you stay okay. I go to Walmart under [00:46:00] special conditions. Because have you heard this mouth yet? I have done a podcast forever. Have you not heard this mouth? What happens is I go into Walmart and I'm fine while I'm shopping because I'm moving around and I'm keeping away from people because nobody's touching me.

Yay. But for some reason people were taught in kindergarten to stand two inches apart from each other in line. So you get into line and that person behind you is breathing on your neck. I am telling you now, I get mouthy. Not like full on Karen mouthy, but I get mouthy. I will hurt somebody's feelings because I'm just mumbling stuff, right?

Like, I don't even care. I'm agitated. Why is, you know, why is this line moving? So it's all like kind of a thing. Yeah. And so Kim has decided that it would be very best for both of us. If I just go to the car when we're done shopping and [00:47:00] she goes to the line. That's fair because nobody in line needs to hear my mouth because I'm really uncomfortable with the situation.

Right. I mean, if it was like, if Kim couldn't go grocery shopping that day, could I go get in line? Yes. When people probably hear mouth out of me, maybe especially at those self checkout things because I know there's a camera on me. Yeah. Hey, look, I know I have a camera on me right now. And I'm having this discussion with you.

It is a whole another thing to be a Walmart with their neon lights in and they're weird cameras that look, I'm not small. Okay. I am not tiny, but then things make me. They add like a hundred pounds at the checkout counter. And I am not okay with that.

And then you have to stand there and raise your hand because guaranteed, [00:48:00] guaranteed, that stupid register is going to mess up just because it's me. It's true. It's true. It just happens. And then so you're standing there with your hand up like a two year old and I'm just like, I don't know. I don't want to stand here like this.

So, would I be able to go to Walmart and, and, and finish by myself? Yes. Do I need practice? No. That's, that's probably not a good idea, but I know I can do it if the situation arises. I am not blocking out completely the thing about going to walmart. I am just saying I have somebody who's willing to do the hard part for me.

So why bother? Yeah, and I think it's really good to be kind of self aware where your limitations are and then where you can Slightly uncomfortably push yourself, you know and then where that where that breaking point is and be okay with that breaking point is [00:49:00] because the more you work into These situations within your Expanded, I'll say comfort zone because you do need to be pushing boundaries to be able to get into, you know, it to make progress is that what is it just gives you the confidence that you did it and you'll see those lines going out.

I mean, This is not unlike, you know, when a child is walking, you know, just getting started to walk, you know, they're going to stumble, they're going to do this. You don't take them out to walk a balance beam when they're 18 months old and let them, you know, like, Because that's when they start doing that with with little kids is about 18 months to try to get them going.

Yeah, if they've won, if they are walking, but like, let's say, let's say you're, you just learned to walk it, let's move it back to like, you know, 12 months as like, you wouldn't take a child that just took their first steps and put them, you [00:50:00] know, four feet in the air on a balance beam. Like that, you would know that would be really ridiculous.

But, you know, so you would work up to that, but that doesn't mean that child's not going to get on to that balance beam in 6 to 12 to 2 years or, you know what I mean, like 3 years. It's, it's just a progress and I think a lot of times we don't give ourselves credit. For the steps that progress needs to be made and then and lay that out more as like no like we made I made in my whole life is about baby steps I made just a little bit of progress here or I was able to Take a step in a direction that I didn't think I was going to be able to today And that's how I mean That's how journeys are made is by just one step in front of the other one Pushing just a little out of your comfort zone just a little bit but not not into pain not into Chaos not into fight or flight Not completely breaking down into a hot mess, but that's going to happen every once in a while, just like the child is going to fall down and skin their knee or, you know, break [00:51:00] their head open because it just that's part of life and, and here again, but if it wasn't, if everybody was just sitting around, like, perfect with in every way, boy, that's boring.

So what was I about to say?

When we put in the work, when we do the work that is necessary that yes, people have done some god awful things to some other people and we now are dealing with those issues and I am sorry that that happened to whoever it happened. Yeah, I'm very sorry that that happened. Right. But. That doesn't mean you get to say, oh, it gives me anxiety to do X, Y, Z, right?

And then just sit down and be like, well, I'm just never going to fix that [00:52:00] because that's not helpful to you. It's not helpful helpful to the people around you. And when you react badly. When you because it will happen, right? Because you're going to unexpectedly come into that situation. And when you flip out in public about whatever's happening, you're putting more stick.

You're putting more on the fact that people with mental health problems are crazy. And why are we doing this? Yeah, and it's not your fault. Like. Kind of like, it's not your fault that you have the problem, right? It is your fault that you never tried to work on it. So now epic big badness happened. Yeah, and I think it's, I think, I mean it's hard because, you know, like you're, you wanna say like that should never have happened to you.

You should have never been put in that situation. You should ne no one [00:53:00] that evil should have been able to do that to you. But on the other side is that just like, you know, just everybody in the world is not that person that did that terrible thing to you. There's all, and I know sometimes it's, you can be in a really deep hole that you don't see the good in life because you've only seen the bad.

But, and that's where like, come out, come out. Because there is good and beauty and love in the world. In fact, the majority, vast majority of the world is that way. And it's so, I mean, it's just horrifying that that's not the side you saw. But, but I think that's where the hope comes in. And I think that's where, like, I can understand people losing hope somewhere where they see so much darkness and not very much light at all.

Sometimes only a sliver of light, but that walking towards that light. You know, seeing that goodness, seeing where that light. Not the [00:54:00] light, you will need to stay right here on this planet. Yeah, no, no, no. I'm not like, but like the light in the world is what I'm talking about. Like stay stepping away from evil and into goodness and, and the people that are good and that are helpful and are supportive and are truly have your best interest at mine.

And sometimes like you say, Nikki is when people truly have your best interest at mine. That might be. Calling you out on your crap sometimes because, because just like a parent doesn't let their children just sit there around eating candy all day. I mean, I'd be really popular in my house if I did that, but I'd also have children that would not be very good and be able to accomplish things is, is that sometimes your friends and your relatives in love.

May need to call you out and say, listen, I love you, which is why I'm concerned about you letting this, you know, rule your life. And and [00:55:00] I know it's you, it feels very, Well, it's easy for you to say Or you don't know what i'm going through but on the other hand that is a gift to you To to reach up and allow that person to help you out as somebody with with those mental health things When I stopped thinking nobody could help me Is when I really started to be able to come out of things because there are people that can help.

Yes therapists They, I love both of them to death. They are my people at this point. Yeah. Yeah. And I wouldn't give either one of them up to save the planet. Like, I They are mine. You cannot have them unless you live in my area and you go schedule with one of them. I doubt they would give you that either.

I mean, mine, when I was sick, I had to cancel an appointment and like, she messaged me later in the week going, Are you going to, you know, make the next week's [00:56:00] appointment? Because I miss you. Yeah, I love that. But The big thing for me is you are not what happened to you. You are not any of the things that happened to you, no matter what it is that happened to you.

You are not that. Yeah. You are someone who had trauma done to them. You, you have trauma now. And speaking of therapist, I had a bad one. And all she kept telling me was you've just been through so much trauma. And I have to say that is the most. Stupid thing I've ever heard in my life. Because yes, I've been through a lot of trouble.

But please stop telling me that every time I come to you with a problem. Because that's not helpful. Well, and it's just empowering. And I think that's what it, that's why it hurts my heart so much when, when people are like that, like, is because it's underestimating your spirit and what you can accomplish.

That's dumb. Don't underestimate like you, [00:57:00] like there is, And you see some of the strongest people come through the most horrendous things. And if they have, like, and, you know, the world is blessed with these people who have come through terrible, terrible things. And that doesn't mean we wanted them to go through those things.

But we, on the other side, can we just, Bask in the amazingness that was formed through that horrendous, horrendous situation. You can come out the other side. You can. And you'll be stronger and you'll be, you'll be a different person, but you're going to be just a better, a better version of yourself in a way that couldn't have happened any other way.

And that doesn't mean that it's okay. It means that you ate you overcome. Yeah, and overcoming doesn't mean that that event never happened. It doesn't mean that memories won't pop up [00:58:00] because again, especially I have CPTSD and PTSD. So I have had long term PTSD and then there was an event. Yeah. Right. I have both forms of the PTSD.

Neither one of them are very good nightmares. Yeah, nightmares are a thing, you know, yeah, getting stuck in a, you know, for a moment in your head where that old videotape is playing, but I've become stronger. There are less

there are less times when I, when my brain takes over and I cannot stop it. Yeah. I have dealt, I've dealt with my problems since birth. I had an evil mother and then I had something happen to me before I even reached my teens that was awful. [00:59:00] Yeah. And so when I say that you can get over things, I don't mean, oh just get over it.

I mean you will overcome things. You will get to the point where that event doesn't define you anymore. Me? On top of the CTP, whatever all those letters, those alphabet letters, I have others and so, like, I have the hearing duper hearing where I hear everything and everybody. So it hurts my ears. I wear headphones a lot of the time.

I have texture issues, you know, that kind of thing. So I have. You know start getting over one thing and realize hey, you know what I was never normal to begin with Well, and the human body is an incredible incredible thing and You may not know that i'm a physical therapist before I did all this stuff online.

But is and I I so, you know, I I [01:00:00] know really really how the body is put together in such an amazing form and And it's not uncommon to have You Mental and physical issues go together. And why is that? It's because you're all connected. It's not like we can take your brain out or take your muscles out.

It's all connected. And so one of the things that the human body does is when you go through something mentally, it wants to, Protect you physically. So it makes you more in tune with like things that like you'll, you will feel a breeze come across and you'll feel it. You may interpret it as an attack when someone else who hasn't been through what you have or doesn't have sensory processing disorder.

would, it would take a, you know, hurricane wind for them to get to that, that reaction. And it's just because your body has dialed in to protecting you to a level that this other person doesn't have. It doesn't, it's actually the same [01:01:00] reaction. It's just it is perceived in. Normal air quote society as an overreaction, but what your body is doing is saying, Hey, like we know your, we know what you've been through.

We're trying to make sure that doesn't happen again. And so when we think about it that way, you wouldn't yell at someone for having a broken bone. So you wouldn't, you wouldn't yell at someone for, For having like, you know, a broken piece and I don't mean that derogatory in their brain is because your body in general is trying is trying to stay, stay on the life path is to find a way out.

And so that's it goes into an overprotection mode. And so a lot of times. A lot of the work that you're doing after this is retraining not only your brain, but your body as well, that, that, okay, [01:02:00] I'm going to put myself in situations where we don't have to be that reactionary, that we're, we're going to make choices that don't put that now that we have more control and this is what's so important.

So evil about a lot of a lot of the trauma in the past is it was when you did not have control. And so now that you do have control is to use that wisely, put yourself in positions where you can say to your body, Hey, body, like we are, we are amongst friends. We are in a safe place. We have our back against the wall.

We can, we can address this with less reaction. Now. If that just happened like that, you know, it'd be great, but it's, it is a baby step, baby step, baby step, baby step. And that's why it's really important to continue pushing, but not into that area where you put yourself in danger again and, and, and react.

In that way that, that is so ingrained as a, as a self defense mechanism. [01:03:00] Yeah

for me, I had to find a why. I lived for years. Like, on the cusp of wanting to leave. Yeah. Because I was in horrible situation after horrible situation after horrible situation. It's all you knew. And I mean, it's what you knew. Yeah. And I didn't think. That it would ever get any better. I didn't I just didn't because I was you know You're in that fog when you're in the fog of being abused and you know, you you're like, okay Well, I have to leave this situation So you go and you try to get help from somebody else and they just do they heap more abuse on you Yeah, like you're in a fog because you're like, this is how people act.

Nobody's ever nice. This is just how it is You And nothing I can do will ever make this better. And then you make the decision one last time to leave.[01:04:00] 

And that's what happened to me. I made that decision one last time and I left. And I met Kim. And Kim is the calmest person I have ever met in my entire freaking life. It's terrifying. A woman will laugh and giggle at you while you're sitting there going. Oh crap. I'm about to die because this is something that would get me You know, yeah and And she's just like what's wrong?

This is normal. What are you talking about? You're fine go sit down And i'm sitting there the whole time going I don't Okay And being around kim and having that calm influence. Yeah has changed a lot about my life. I love that a [01:05:00] ton I Made more last year than I ever have in my entire life and that in part is because of kim well And give yourself some credit there is because you could have come into that situation and not And then been resistant or ugly, and you would have had every reason to think about it, too.

I had my moment. But on the other hand, like, and you know, I, I, I truly believe God puts us in situations sometimes to, you know, to lead us to where we need to be. And I, I think about, you know, you know, I only know the Nikki that's been through it, you know what I mean? And I'm so blessed and like, I can't even imagine a world where that, that the world got you down, you know what I mean?

And so what a blessing to be. Here looking back and and seeing the future before you which is really really amazing but where I was going [01:06:00] with that is by having a why I didn't do anything stupid Yes Make wise choices Oh what I recommend for people who Are just starting to try to get their life back in order or even if they've been working on it, but things kind of don't seem to be working as well as they thought you need to have a why and it needs to be set in stone and placed inside of your heart so that, you know, with every beat of your heart that that is why you are here.

That is why your heart is still beating. And nothing, absolutely nothing, can break that. Piece of you. Okay. Nothing. Once you find your why, and it is embedded where it needs to go, nothing can break it [01:07:00] and you can

start to live again because you're not thinking. Oh, but if I do this wrong, I'm Sewer slide is the answer when it's not that sewer slide is never the answer. It is a thought. It is an intrusive thought that will try to bring you back every single time you get a step away from it. It really will. But if you have your why, and it's set in stone and you've put it in your heart, you cannot be moved to do it.

Yeah, yeah, and that means when those thoughts come you can go. Oh, yeah, that's stupid and keep going You can put it in perspective. Yeah. Mm hmm. Yeah I was out the why when I was when I was floundering and I was trying to You know live the life In [01:08:00] an admittedly bad situations and not thinking I was good enough to get out of them because I had put myself there, right?

If you put yourself there, even if you put yourself in a bad situation, the bad things that happened to you are not your fault. No, no, you need to remember that you can come back from that. But make find your why. Carve it in stone, set it in your heart, and then you can easily bat away those thoughts saying, Oh, you're stupid.

I ain't doing that. And keep going, and you'll be able to grow. Well, it gives you the strength to walk away from those situations, even though they may, even as bad as they are, they might be a comfort zone for you. And Which totally makes sense because, like, everything's hard. So why don't you just stay with the least hard thing?

But as you grow, as you get further away from those thoughts, [01:09:00] the big thing to remember is That nobody owes you anything for what you went through. Yeah. Nobody can pay you for what you went through and it automatically make you feel better. No. Now, that person who did the bad thing to you going to jail can help you feel more safe.

Absolutely. Absolutely make you feel more safe. That person dying can absolutely help you feel more safe. You should not be the tool to do so. That's not what I meant. Do not do that. That is not a wise choice. So, but because of the, you know, because now you can feel safe, at least a little bit move forward.

Go and do. Find out who you are now. Forget about who you used to be before whatever happened. Because that person is no longer [01:10:00] alive. You need to figure out who you are now and what you're going to do with yourself. Yeah, no, I think you're right on the, how did you find, like, you know, when you're in the darkness like that, how did you find a why?

Like, was there something that popped up immediately or is that something you struggled with? For me, it was actually a little bit easy. And I say this, okay, so what I'm about to say is going to sound very rude, but it's my life. So it's yours. Any boo boo when I 1st was going through it and I 1st was like, I just need to end it.

I just need to end it. I just need to I remembered that my mom tried to sewer slide when I was 4 and[01:11:00] 

she died. He had 3 kids at the time. Right? We were sent to foster care. Where we were beaten, like this was not a good foster care. This is not one of those happy, happy, joy, joy places that people care about. This was one of the bad ones and if she had succeeded, my life would have been even more worse than it already was.

Yeah, so she didn't succeed but my mom also did it. My mom was one of those narcissists who didn't like to take anybody to a doctor. She was medically neglectful. She's just a bad mom. So for me personally, it was I am not going to be like my mom. Yeah, I have people who depend on me. I cannot go, though.

I cannot do the stupid thing that my [01:12:00] mom tried to do. But first it was just that. Yeah. And then it became, you know, how everybody says that while you die, you give up your trauma is fine. You're finally free. You know what you actually do. You give your trauma to whoever, whoever finds your body. And realizing that I was like, yeah, no, I can't, I can't do it.

I can't put that pain on the people around me. So those are my two reasons. It was not going to be like my mom and nobody's finding my body. Do you feel like your why has changed over the, oh, since, since you kind of started that or it's just, it's just gotten bigger. It's just gotten bigger. It's interesting.

And I think what I like about, you know, you kind of putting that into actual words, I think a lot of times when people you know, I've had a lot of like, you know, business training where you're like, you probably drew a Y, you [01:13:00] know, and stuff like that. It's always a bunch of fancy words that I'm like, that has no relevance to my actual life.

And you know, and so what you have just said is so simple, like give yourself some reasons. Just, they don't have to be fancy. They don't have to be, they're not fancy. Not in call anybody on the wall , my God. They're not fancy. They're not anybody else's reasons. Yeah. Like you don't have to copy my reasons.

They have to be personal to you. They have to make sense to you. Yeah. And it doesn't have to be like. You know, you say it doesn't have to be life changing, but it is life changing just because you said it out loud or you identified it. Yeah, and you just, you want to put it here. Yeah, put it here so that you have it and in those dark moments, because I still have them those moments where you're just.

It's middle of the night. You're still awake. And, [01:14:00] you know, for me, it's the 3rd night. I've been up because I'm not taking my medicine correctly because that's stupid. Why?

You're sitting there and then you start crying because, you know, life is hard, especially when you haven't taken your meds for 3 days. So, you know. But I think the nice thing, too, is, is I think it does even kind of repeating, you know, your why now has a much different impact than it did, you know, however many years ago, it was what you started on this.

And I think that's also something that you can give yourself credit for, too. I got my mind back about what? 2007 2018, basically, so. What a beautiful transformation. Seven years ago. Yeah. And look how so [01:15:00] much is so different today as back then. And looking at that, and I think that's what, like, kind of going back to what we were talking about earlier, where people are enabling people to stay in that wallowing and not make that progress.

Like that would have been so detrimental for you. And you know, like to still be where you were seven years ago versus where you are now. And that doesn't mean that That was easy or that it was, it was hard, hard work, but look what, look at the benefits that has happened because, you know, you started taking action and working on it and, and actively becoming the person in control of your life.

I love it because I made my choices. I have now moved to. We started in Maryland, and we moved from Maryland to Texas and from Texas to Arkansas. [01:16:00] I've moved and I'm, I mean, I'm a military brat. I moved a lot. Anyway, right? We figured out on the move between Maryland and Texas that I, for some reason, believe that people are just going to leave me on the side of the road, like, Kim would move the car because she got gas, so she'd park.

And I'd come out expecting her still to be at pump five, and I would absolutely almost lose my crap because she was gone

very interesting and you're like, she's like, I just needed to pee she's yelling she's over in a parking spot somewhere. So it always ended up fine, but it was a heart attack of like, This is where it starts. Now, I don't even know what state I'm in and I'm going to have to start all over and figure out my life and I don't want to have [01:17:00] to do this.

Well, but you pushed yourself in ways that you wouldn't, couldn't even have fathomed years before that. You know what I mean? And you made it like you and then you decided to do it again. So like you guys, I mean, like the progress. Well, I didn't decide to do. Well, you went decided to do it again. I just kind of followed the leader, but, you know,

the biggest thing I can say, I think at this point is. If we're going to get rid of the stigma of mental health is we need people to learn what it is and we need to learn, we need the people who have it to actually handle it. Yeah, well, and Nikki, how did you, how did you find help? Like, how did you find the people that have been helping you?

Because I think that's one of the biggest problems people have and then [01:18:00] people who might be. Friends, relatives of people that are in trouble. How do they find them? Help? So, first of all, the process we're willing to have to get help, right? If it's mental health, unless they can be unwillingly into a mental hospital, don't don't really recommend that unless there's an actual massive problem about to happen.

But so if you're wanting to get help. Then there, there's so much therapy everywhere. Yeah. And even I'm going to say this, even if you don't have insurance, find a therapist. Yeah, most states and I've been to a few. And I've been to ones that don't have the Obamacare thing and they even have it. Yeah.

Most states have an insurance that is [01:19:00] explicitly for mental health people so that they can get the care they need, which is just in meds appointment. Yeah. No, fine. It's usually the County, you know, whatever County I have insurance. So I go a bump above the County stuff cause the County stuff. But if you're desperate,

And that should be your first step. Yeah, it might take you a little bit. The wait times are probably going to be ridiculous. So you have to deal with that. Bring a book with you. Yeah, bring your cord to charge your phone with you because, you know, you're, you might be sitting there a while. But stay calm when you're there because you start popping off and you might get sectioned anyway.

Yeah. So, but they do most places. [01:20:00] And I have been to with my mental health, I have been to Tennessee, Washington state, Maryland, Texas and Arkansas. Tennessee doesn't have Obamacare, but they did have care, you know, insurance for people who had mental health problems. So I was able to get help that way. And so there are all there's always a way I love that and sometimes it like that is maybe your first obstacle.

And that's okay. Like, it may not be solved, you know, in 2 hours, you may have to go figure out how to do it. But having a, a goal is 1 of the 1st steps towards, you know, implementing your why. You know, so finding that help can be your, that goal. And if you're lucky, like I have been, though, in Maryland, my [01:21:00] therapist got pregnant.

And she was terrified to tell me for some reason. So she's in these big shirts. I don't know. I missed it. No idea how I missed it. Really don't. But when she went on her, her maternity leave, I'm one of those people where my backstory is long enough that if I'm only going to see you for three weeks, I'm not doing it.

You're not doing the whole thing. I would much rather not go to therapy at all for three weeks and just come back, you know, six weeks, whatever. When my therapist comes back, because. It takes so long for you to be able to understand all the people and all the players and all the things that happened.

Right. That, like, I mean, it's just kind of a list. There's just, there's things you need to know. And I'm not doing that for everybody and their brother. Yeah. So him, As a sister, who is a therapist, [01:22:00] Oh, she agreed to talk to me, you know, out of hours. Yeah. So that I had, that's how I got my second therapist knife.

So so that I actually had somebody to talk to while I was waiting for her to come back. But she came back was back for, like, a week and then decided she wasn't doing it. He wanted to be home with her baby. Yeah, which is fair. I guess me. Totally. I mean, whatever. Whatever. I mean, like, just so happened that we were leaving.

I knew it was fine. I mean, worked out right. So I just kept talking with her and then I got to Texas and I found the bad therapist and I had my good therapist, you know, Kim's sister to talk to that during that time. So it kind of outweighed that and then we moved here and my [01:23:00] therapist here is wonderful.

I love that. The usually if you type in your Google Maps or your Apple Maps, whichever one you're using therapist near me. Yeah, you can call 1 up. Doesn't matter which 1, just pick 1, call them up. And say, hey, I, if you have insurance, say, do you accept my insurance and go from there? Right? Right. And then talk to whoever you think who they think will fit with you best and then see if it actually works.

Yeah there you go. You now have a thing if you don't have insurance again, call any of them doesn't matter which 1 call any single 1 of them and go. Hey, I don't under I don't have insurance. I just moved to this state or even then I've lived here forever, but I haven't had mental health care and I really need it.

So I need to talk to somebody where do I start to be able to get [01:24:00] insurance and they will tell you. Yeah, any of them will point you in the direction of where you need to go. Okay, that's great to know. The other thing I would say is is walk in, if you're really, really in a bad situation, walk into any church.

And even if you're not a member, even if you've never been to church before, walk into a church because there's people there that that know the resources of the community too. So, the other option, which I've had to do a couple of times, because when you move to a new area, sometimes getting the care you need takes a while.

What you can do is go to an emergency room. Yeah, nice. They have usually that's where they'll evaluate you for mental health. You might have to do a 3 day stay, but if that's the case, you have a 3 day. Say, you go, they feed you while you're there. You figure it's comfortable and beds might not be 3 [01:25:00] day stay.

I went to hurt my back so bad. It was awful, but, you know, you have your 3 day stay, but when you walk out, you'll have medication for 6 months. So that you have time to find a therapist and a doctor because those meds doctors are surely My doctor's like 110. I am not looking forward to her passing. Yeah.

No, I totally get it well, I think this has been super informative to people who are you might be like on the fringes of struggling and not realizing that they need the help realizing that like they can get help. Like I think, you know, like, Oh, I don't deserve help. I, I, you know, I should be able to do it myself.

Nobody got where they want or they are without any help. Nobody, nobody in the world. And you know what? And you know, we go back to earlier in the, when we're talking more about the business side of things and how you said, you know, I love [01:26:00] helping people. When you say no to people who are reaching out to help you, you are taking away their joy.

Like, don't steal their joy. You know, these people who love you want to help and you need, you know, take their hand, take, take the help. Because that's, it's, it's a win win situation. We're human. That's one of the reasons we're on the planet is to help each other. So, so don't be, don't be silly, you know, don't be silly and turn it down you know, you know, take it and, and take that next step.

Okay. Thank you so much for joining me, Holly. I appreciate it. Even with the heart attack at the beginning where I wasn't quite sure because other people actually other people freak you out, she actually messaged after you were already in here and we were [01:27:00] talking to not be worried until you didn't show up.

And I was, I was here before the assigned time. So I did that. So I didn't, although I was running around, I was afraid I was going to be late just because there's no heat in my office and we're having a Texas snowstorm.

Oh, the obstacles we face. They say, and thank you very much. Thank you, Nikki. It was fun.