From Toxic Bosses to Real Support: What Leadership Should Look Like

In this episode of Operational Harmony: Balancing Business & Mental Well-being, Nikki talks with Jasper Quinte about workplace culture, leadership styles, and how both directly affect employee mental health. From bad managers and fake “casual Fridays” to servant leadership and working with people who actually listen — they cover it all.

Jasper brings practical leadership advice and personal stories, while Nikki shares what it’s really like to work with entrepreneurs, set boundaries, and manage mental health while running a business. Raw, real, and full of takeaways for leaders and team members alike.

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Speaker 2: [00:00:00] Hi Nikki. Thank you for bringing me in today. I'm really looking forward to our conversation. I'm super excited about what we're gonna talk about today, and my name is for everyone out there. My name is Justin Quinte. I really enjoy helping leaders and managers build stronger teams, and I'll do that through leadership development assessments, team building activities, and coaching because I believe when you look out for your people, they'll be a lot more engaged and productive.

Speaker 2: And today I'd like to talk about workplace culture and the value it has on the people. Because when we look at the day to day, especially in our work environment with day-to-day tasks, sometimes people show up to work and then they go home and that process just repeats itself. They go back to work, then go back home.

Speaker 2: But when we think intentionally about workplace culture, we can create an environment where people really look forward to showing up to their work. So when we look at the why [00:01:00] of our businesses, our companies, and really inspire people to really think about the importance of the work they do, they'll be, they'll just be so much more excited about the work they do.

Speaker 2: What are your thoughts on that, Nikki? 

Speaker: So I've never worked in a corporate office. I feel personally that would probably. not end well for me, but I worked at Walmart, and Walmart is one of those, sorry, Walmart, and you know, my last name being Walton, and I'm not one of them Waltons like, I'm gonna say this, but, Walmart's one of those soul crushing jobs because you go every single day.

Speaker: But you know for a fact that when Walmart talks about, loving its employees, they really mean the ones in the offices here in Arkansas and not the ones in the stores. Because of [00:02:00] just how badly you can be treated. And so I think if we had, I don't mean fake. Niceness, right? Because you have those people who are like, well, we have 

Speaker: ping pong tables and other things for people to play. But if you actually caught anybody using those things, they'd get in trouble for not doing their work. Right. Some of anyway. And like, so I don't want it to be fake company love, and I don't want it to be the company love that is talking about some of its employees, but not all of its employees.

Speaker 2: Nikki, you bring up such a very, good perspective because when a company really wants to embrace their values, they need to stand up for it. And you brought up an excellent point. Leaders need to lead by example. And it's really sad when a leader says one thing and then they do another. It's really sad when a leader embrace, tries to really promote work life [00:03:00] balance.

Speaker 2: And I mean, when, leader Pretty much, yeah. Worklife balance. But at the same time, that leader isn't really, giving themselves enough breathing room. People see that, and when they see that type of behavior that doesn't align with a, what a leader stands for, it really puts more pressure into people, into really understanding what's real and what's not real.

Speaker 2: Because when a leader is saying one thing and they're not role modeling that behavior in front of other people it's sending in the wrong message. And again, that's going to burn out so many employees when they see one thing and, they get the other. So really, really frustrating to many people.

Speaker: Yeah. And everybody sees it in the pizza parties. 

Speaker 2: Oh, that's right because when we look at leadership culture or when we look at company culture, it's more than just pizza parties. It's more than take your dogs to workday. It's more than ping pong tables. What a real effective culture is, [00:04:00] it's providing that space where everyone can really work together, communicate, talk about what's on their mind, express their voice, because if none of these are available, then it doesn't matter what day pizza party it is.

Speaker 2: It doesn't matter what day bring your dogs to workday is, it doesn't matter, how many ping pong tables you have, the office. If people don't have a voice, it's really going to be difficult to have a culture that means something to them. 

Speaker: I've also heard of like a casual day where like you can wear more comfortable clothing than you're supposed to be able to use in an office.

Speaker: I don't have that kind of clothing at all. I would not be able to work in an office at this point. But, I have seen like, sometimes you have to pay, and maybe it's only a dollar or two, but why should you have to pay to be able to take advantage of a day where you can be comfortable? And then you get people who say, yes, today's casual [00:05:00] clothes, and you can wear jeans, but as soon as you show up in jeans, they're like, why did you wear blue jeans?

Speaker: They're supposed to be black. Like, really? This is casual day. We're supposed to be able to be comfortable. What is your deal? I've heard stories like that all over the place where companies say that this is a good thing. We're going to, give you bigger bonuses. We're gonna do these things.

Speaker: And instead of, and then when the money comes in from everybody trying so hard. All of a sudden people are fired because there's not enough room for them, and it's more because they're trying to stack those bonuses for themselves so that everybody in the higher ups get those, get that money, and everybody at the time, no, no bonuses for you.

Speaker: We're not doing bonuses this year. You guys failed to get what we wanted, then we doubled what you wanted. What are you talking about? We didn't do what you wanted. 

Speaker 2: It's such an unhealthy mismatch when leadership, [00:06:00] tries to promote this certain way of being. Again, for any business or organization to be effective.

Speaker 2: They really have to care about their employees. And if an organization, for example, really does want a casual Friday, then make it a casual Friday. If you're going to say Casual Friday, and someone shows up in sweats and you disapprove, then that's on leadership because the message was casual. And there was no clarification until what that meant.

Speaker 2: Therefore, it's going to be on leadership for not being clear enough on, the message that was providing. So when it comes to a great workplace, leaders need to be clear about what's acceptable and not acceptable. And at the same time, when they're holding those standards, with employees, no one should be treated differently.

Speaker 2: Everyone is on the same page and really helping everyone win. That's how you'll make the work environment much more better for everyone. 

Speaker: [00:07:00] So what are some tips that you have for leaders? Maybe somebody just going into leadership for the first time to try and, maybe not fix everything because you know, new boy can't fix everything, but like how they should act with this new promotion instead of just being like, ha ha, now I'm king of the hill and you're all peon.

Speaker 2: That's right. It's really disappointing when a leader sees their title as some magic wand for them to finally be the boss and step out over people. That's not how it works. When I've talked to many, effective leaders, they do believe that you do have to earn that space to be a leader and really to get there, especially with new leaders, be open to listening to the perspectives of other people, the days of command and control, when you can just tell someone to say, Hey, do this, do that, and that's your day.

Speaker 2: That's not going to be effective anymore. People are, people want to express [00:08:00] their voice, what's on their mind to be more effective, because when everyone's just silenced, they're really not gonna feel engaged or motivated to do any work. So, as a leader. Wherever you are in experience from new to ex to veteran, what you wanna do is really have open ears.

Speaker 2: Give that space and that opportunity for other people to express themselves because they might have an idea that you haven't considered. And when you take that perspective in, you can be much more eff effective and efficient than you were before. 

Speaker: So what is your experience with culture, company culture that makes you That's right.

Speaker: Definite line. We're putting on things. 

Speaker 2: So for me, I remember in one role I had in the corporate world, it was my first day and I had stepped into the office and that's the day I learned on the first day that the. Original team there, they had already put in their two weeks. So I was there to [00:09:00] fill in and wow, that was a surprise.

Speaker 2: When I was working with the team, I just felt this lower sense of productivity around there was this lower sense of engagement, lower sense of motivation, and you could feel that strain on your work just influencing you. But when I had the opportunity to build a new team, when new hires came in, that gave me the opportunity to turn things around and really give that space for everyone to be open about what, how we can be more effective in the work we do.

Speaker 2: We reviewed our processes, structures, projects, task, and looked for ways to make it so much better. And when you look at the end result. That original culture. I mean, it wasn't so great. You could feel it. And with the new culture where there's just a higher level of productivity, higher level of engagement, higher level of [00:10:00] motivation, I really felt that difference.

Speaker 2: And which is why culture means something to me because you can really feel its impact. 

Speaker: When I work with people, I don't say I work for anybody because that leaves things too much out in the open. I work for a lot of different people and I have run across people who I don't like people who are two-faced.

Speaker: Whether they're a corporate person talking down to somebody below them or somebody like, what I work with, a solo entrepreneur or whatever, and they're coming to me saying, Hey, I need you to help me with this. And they're not listening to my full sentence before they start yelling at me.

Speaker: Dude, the fastest way to get me to not work with you anymore is start yelling at me. I don't care what you're, I don't care how pie in the sky, great idea. You know, oh, you got blessed by the poke type deal. You have, you yell at me. If you talk down at me, I'm [00:11:00] eventually gonna go screw this and leave.

Speaker: And I don't think that a lot of corporate, leaders realize that, I'm not alone in saying that, that being yelled at, being talked down to having that Two-Face thing where it's good for me, but not for the, kind of breaks down everything because oh, yes, you guys get a pizza party, but up here in the corporate thing, we're gonna go out to lunch and have, a $5,000 lunch while y'all are having pizza to celebrate, your win.

Speaker 2: Nikki, you just brought up a really, really cool phrase. Blessed by the Pope. My goodness. There are leaders out there and it's really concerning when leaders get this title and suddenly, they think all these magical rights are assigned to them, and they feel that since they have this title of leader, they can [00:12:00] just run over people.

Speaker 2: But it's not, it doesn't motivate others. When, as you mentioned, Nikki, when we get yelled at, that doesn't really excite us about the work we're doing. On the other hand, when a leader actually wants to make that space to say, Nikki, what's on your mind? How can we make this project better?

Speaker 2: You'll feel that higher level of ownership. And when you feel like you're part of the process, you are motivated to do more. So it's just, a shame when leaders are, as you said with that cool phrase, you used, blessed by the Pope, magic. They have these magical powers that they can suddenly run over people.

Speaker 2: But that's not how effective leadership works. 

Speaker: I've actually seen that also where, somebody who's worked there six months treat somebody who just got there today, I'm better than you because I've been here longer. No, you're not. You've just sat in a seat from what I can tell with you, giving me everything that you've ever had to work on that's [00:13:00] due now.

Speaker: Like you didn't do anything. You were just waiting for a peon to come along that you could grab and feel more important than and give all your work to them. So that is, I mean, and I've seen that. I've had people that, I've worked with, I've worked with solo entrepreneurs and entrepreneurs and 'cause they're all that, but solo preneur just means that they're the only person in their company.

Speaker: And I work with them in a lot of different ways to help them with their business. And so if they come into it and they're like, well, I need you to do this, this, this, this, this, this, this, and that. Oh dude, you're not paying me enough.

Speaker: No. Like, let's reevaluate this because I can tell you now, I have plenty of room for new clients, but I can't take on a new client that is going to all of a sudden try to take over all of my time. Some of this stuff has to be a you problem. [00:14:00] It is not my company. I am your company is not mine. 

Speaker: But what I can do is I can come in, I can learn the systems, I can do the things, and then we can sit down and go, okay, now you hired me to do X and X or X and y and I through dealing with your systems and stuff for the last month or two, noticed that I can probably take, z and a off your table, right?

Speaker: I can take those things. You keep doing what you're doing, and maybe add a small charge on, because now I'm taking more responsibility because the more you put on my plate, the more that slider goes up. And I'm not talking by thousands either. I'm not one of those people, oh, you want me to check your email for you?

Speaker: Okay. That's $5,000 a week. Why you like click on a button and go, okay. Yeah, she's paid attention to everything. That's good. [00:15:00] So, even as someone doing what I do, I've run into people who are like, well, I know what I'm do. You just called me and asked me how to put messages on your computer, but sure you know exactly how to run all of your systems better than I do 

Speaker 2: when it comes to, well, that's when it comes to entrepreneurial leadership leader, or entrepreneurs, on the one hand, I know that since one person is operating a lot and they need the support, but at the same time, leaders should give the space for other people to.

Speaker 2: Really provide that support, meeting them where they're at instead of, I mean, putting hundreds and thousands of tasks on your plate, that's just gonna stress you out. And leaders should understand that the more they put [00:16:00] on someone else's plate, the more likely they're overwhelmed and the more likely they're gonna burn down if that cycle continues of just shoving more paperwork in your face.

Speaker 2: But on the other hand, when a leader really takes the time to understand what's on your plate and what they can do to support you in clearing out your plate, that really makes for a productive conversation where a leader and a team member can get a better understanding of how they can work together.

Speaker: Yeah. And I'm not saying that I'm complaining about the people I work with. Yeah. I work with some amazing people and we have our disagreements, or I have my days where I'm going. Why did you do that? No, don't do that again. I'll fix it. But don't do that again. You know? 

Speaker 3: Oh 

Speaker: yeah. We all have those days, but, and the people I still work with, I have, you know, great, like professional [00:17:00] relationships with, and a lot of 'em, even personal relationships with them, because I have just been a part of their life for so long.

Speaker: But on the other side, I am growing, right? I'm growing my business 

Speaker: because that's what you do. And when you're doing that and you take on, you know, you're in the process of taking on a new client and they're like, okay, well these are the things you do. I want you to do all of it. Uhhuh, we're gonna like tiptoe in on this, okay?

Speaker: We're gonna. Pick a couple of high priority items and then we're going to evaluate exactly what is needed over a month or two, and then sit back down and agree on exactly what's gonna happen. Because I'm not gonna come out the gate doing 50 different things because one, I don't know how you think. I don't know you like that yet?

Speaker 3: Yeah, 

Speaker: I don't know. Some of these things require a lot of input, at least at the beginning to get me to know exactly what to say to [00:18:00] whatever email. That's right. So, you need to like you way down. And if they can understand that and work with me, then we're golden and then I end up working with them.

Speaker: I usually keep my clients, I've had a couple that have fallen off, but it wasn't, like I said, the one guy yelled at me and I was like, done with it. After the second time it happened. Because if you listen to my full sentence and not just the reactionary bit in the middle, maybe you'll learn something.

Speaker 2: That's right. And when it comes to just entrepreneurs, yeah, there are rockstar entrepreneurs out there, but at the same time, those that haven't really been exposed to that leadership understanding, that's where we'll see those challenges. But there are rock stars, definitely rock stars out there.

Speaker: Yeah. I work with some great people and they're doing great things in their different fields. And I'm all over the place with the stuff I do and the people I work with. And that's [00:19:00] perfectly fine by me. 'cause I would be bored to tears working in a corporate office doing the same task every single day.

Speaker: I just, I'm not sure that, yeah, I think there was day in and day out. There'd be a KIA situation happening or something. But like

Speaker: I can't do a lot of truly boring, repetitive tasks. I have somebody I hire for that and she laughs at me 'cause I'm like, look, this thing is probably gonna take you an hour, but it's taken me six hours just to call you and I've gotten nothing done because all I keep thinking is this is going to make me have to click on something 17 times every single time.

Speaker: I want more information. So you really just, can you get the information? Hour or two later she comes back with all the information I needed and I'm fine with that. 

Speaker 2: So you like that excitement with new tasks? 

Speaker: Yes. Once, I mean, and I [00:20:00] can keep doing them, some of the repetitive tasks, but like if I have to go in and pull all, like for my roofers recently we had to go in and pull all of the.

Speaker: Sign contracts. And I was like, this isn't gonna take me a million year because I don't wanna have to click into each job, click into files, click into this thing, click into that thing just to get to the contract, then download it into, in a way that makes sense. And no,

Speaker: that kind of repetitive task. Yeah. That's a KIA situation. I can't, no. 

Speaker 2: The novelty of doing something new that'll, yeah. 

Speaker: Much better than clicking into something. And then the software we were using had, wheels of death after you clicked on anything for like a full minute. No, I am not, no, I'm not sitting here trying to be bored [00:21:00] doing one task over and over again.

Speaker: Having to watch that wheel of death like half your time if you spend an hour like. 15 minutes of it. It's just watching the wheel of death and I, and 

Speaker 2: there goes 15 minutes. 

Speaker: I'm not, I don't have the patience to deal with that kind of thing. So I have somebody that is a sweetheart and she knows me at this point and she just laughs at me when I call her.

Speaker: And I'm like, okay. This is what you need to do and please just get it to me because I can't and I humbly go to work. 'cause I'm not like, no, you have to do this now. No, it's, please don't let me do this. Don't dumb egg me. Do this by myself. She is very much appreciated. She gets paid for her time.

Speaker: She appreciates having a little extra money every once in a while when that happens. And so it's great. But on the other hand, I've worked with people [00:22:00] who. Treated me like dirt under their feet just because my business isn't making as much, as much money as theirs. And I'm like, I could make more than you.

Speaker: I probably will at some point, but I'm growing strategically and I'm doing, things my way. I'm running a podcast while running a business. I gotta tell you right now, the podcast is way busier than the business, but like, it's a blessing, not a curse. And it, she, it too shall pass. 

Speaker 2: That's right. But that's amazing.

Speaker 2: And I would say that reminds me, what you mentioned earlier, giving the right task to the right people. Because if you give something to someone that really doesn't fit their skills, experience, motivation, it's not gonna be done as well as if you had just given it to someone who would find it appealing and easier for them to complete.

Speaker 2: So yeah, giving the right task to the right people, that makes a difference. 

Speaker: Yeah, I'd never forward my phone to her and be like, [00:23:00] Hey, can you answer this for a couple hours? Because she would totally wanna kill me if I did that. She would not be appreciative of her phone ringing like that. Right. So she's great for those little things.

Speaker: She loves doing them. I don't know why, but it's a thing where she loves doing it and I'm like, you know what? If you love doing the things that drive me up the wall, I'm just gonna give you the money to do it. 

Speaker 2: You fed your match. 

Speaker: I ain't having that. And she learned the systems pretty quick.

Speaker: She was using a software that some of the people I, that were some of the roofers that were using it, like still didn't know 90% of the stuff. So, she's very smart and she works well, so it's fine for me. On the other side of that, sometimes, I worked at Walmart, I had a manager. Who was in training when I got hired.

Speaker: And she was the seventh person to come up to me and try to tell me how to do [00:24:00] something. And she wanted me to do it a seventh different way. And I just stopped, stepped back and said, you know what? I don't need everybody in the brother telling me what to do. One person can teach me what to do and everybody else needs to back off because I'm not learning it seven different ways so that I can do it wrong every time.

Speaker: So you need to chill and go away. I mean, I got wrote up 'cause I yelled in the middle of the photo lab pit, but what was I supposed to do? Everybody and their brother kept coming. Oh no, no, you're doing it wrong. Oh no, no, you're doing, and she was just the last in the long line of people they. It, I broke.

Speaker: And so I got wrote up for that. Not a big deal. But then the great lady that was my manager when I got hired, decided to go to like Ohio or something. I go to Ohio. I don't think I ever figured that out. [00:25:00] But, the manager in training who is not supposed to become the manager at the place she was in training at, because you come in with preconceived ideas.

Speaker: So Walmart's policy is that she kept, she was not supposed to be able to be a manager there, and yet they let her become a manager there for expediency stake sake or something. And she hated me because I'm not the only one that got wrote up that day. She did too for like trying to force herself like she had touched me.

Speaker: To get to the thing I was doing, trying to tell me I was wrong. She like tried to push me off and that's when I was like,

Speaker: don't, don't do that. 

Speaker 3: Wow. Wow. Um, 

Speaker: so she got wrote up too for that. And so she hated me. She made it her life's mission to fire me and she got her chance because somebody asked for a [00:26:00] professional print and, Walmart was, had those Kodak picture makers. I, this was back in 2003 I think, so I'm not talking about anything recent.

Speaker: But, this couple was at the Kodak picture maker trying to make a print and it wouldn't let them, it obviously could tell it was a professional print and it wasn't letting it happen. So I stood there with my manager being in the little po, you know, she was in the area hearing this because they were not quiet cussing and screaming at me because I was telling them, I'm not paying the fine for you to have a professional picture.

Speaker: Oh. But they said we could print it. I don't care. Do you have a letter proving that? No, we don't need, yes you do, because I don't know if you know this, but if you copy a professional picture [00:27:00] and give it to a customer and let them pay for it, Walmart has to pay a fine. That's like, I don't know. Back then they said it was $20,000.

Speaker: That's what I was told in orientation. Walmart has to pay that fine. Plus guess what? I'm gonna get fired for doing it. Plus I'm gonna have to pay the same amount in fines to those people. So like, wow, yeah, sure. I want my job to go away. Because you want a picture of somebody in a photo, like, I can't do this.

Speaker: Like, this is an illegal image. I cannot do this. I will not do this. I'm not paying a fine for you. You're not that special. And then finally, after they were done cussing at me, I walked into the register and there was somebody I knew at the front of the line, which was by this point, up to the cash registers in the front and just kinda went, why do they always come out of the woodwork when I'm here?

Speaker: It's all sad. Said, [00:28:00] yeah, I got fired that day because I said, why did they always come out of theor when I'm here? Because I, my goodness, was being screamed and cussed at, and I, my temper, like, thank you very much. You should be grateful that I didn't flip my lid and start cussing right back at them. I was very professional.

Speaker: I thought they left, but they snuck around and were right there when I went, and I only said it because it was somebody I knew right there. Like I wouldn't have said if it was just a customer. And so I ended up getting fired. But if I, first of all, if I'd had a manager that would fight for me, I probably would've been able to stay because yes, I was being screamed at, I should have had the manager come over as soon as they started screaming and cussing at me.

Speaker: She did not, she stated the back of the photo lab, like nothing was happening, there was happening. She didn't even help the line that was just steady growing while [00:29:00] I was getting screamed at. 

Speaker 2: Wow. 

Speaker: So there, I mean, there are people like that, that like wish for your demise that end up in leadership per, positions.

Speaker: Where, as soon as they're hired, and I mean, it's the day I found out with, as soon as somebody came up to me and said she just got manager. And I went, well, I don't know how long I'm gonna last then. 'cause I already knew she hated me. I already knew she wanted me gone. And so that happens all over the place in corporate jobs, in, you know, gas station jobs.

Speaker: It doesn't matter if somebody holds a grudge and they get put into a position over you, they will can if they're unethical. See, that's the thing. You have to be unethical to try to fire somebody just 'cause you don't like them. 

Speaker 3: Hmm. 

Speaker: Everybody thinks that they're ethical all the time. You're [00:30:00] not ethical all the time.

Speaker: You're lying to yourself and you're being two-faced because you know that you're doing wrong. 

Speaker 3: Hmm. 

Speaker: You know, you're lying to yourself to upper management when you make those claims that, person just doesn't do their job as good as they should. You know what I mean? Stop holding a grudge. Fix it before you get your new position.

Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. And three things I wanna mention, and the first thing that you brought up earlier with, having the worker that's helping you. It's just such an awesome feeling when you find someone that compliments your skills. And when you're able to take the things that you're not so excited about and give it to someone else who is, that's such a great feeling.

Speaker 2: And, the second thing I wanna mention, the experience with having seven different people telling you seven different things. I can imagine how frustrating that can be. And I think. What's [00:31:00] behind that is just really a lack of clarity of how things should be done. Because if there's too many ways to do the same thing, it's gonna be difficult to keep track of how something's getting done well, and when you can really clarify the process for everyone, it will just make ease everyone.

Speaker 2: It'll put everyone at ease knowing that it's done the right way, when it's actually clear that the right way, that there is a way for a right way. And then for bosses or leaders to be, you just brought up a really excellent point. Nikki leaders should be advocate for their employees and support them because a leader is successful when their people are successful.

Speaker 2: And if a leader is trying to bring everyone down, that only brings themselves down. So you brought up an excellent point, Nikki, 

Speaker: and to, to point something out. I think it was in, within two years of getting the management position, she was switched to the eyecare [00:32:00] center and then within six months to a year of that, she was fired.

Speaker 2: Wow. 

Speaker: So it wasn't just me that didn't like her and didn't think she was doing her job. Like, don't come after me if you ain't doing your job. 

Speaker 2: So you brought up a good point. Leaders should look out for other people to make sure they're in a good place and helping them grow and develop.

Speaker 4: Hey everyone. Thanks for sticking with us. Before we dive into our next topic, I just wanna take a quick moment to remind you two who like this video, subscribe to our channel and hit that notification bell. That way you'll always be the first to know when a new episode drops, and we want to hear from you.

Speaker 4: What topics are you most excited about? Drop your thoughts in. The comments below. Your feedback helps us create content that you love. We've got some exciting stuff coming your way, so don't miss out. Now let's switch gears and jump into our next discussion.

Speaker: Leadership [00:33:00] roles and styles play a huge role in how the people under them are affected. So obviously for. I think the six to eight months that I had that manager above me and knowing I was on my way out.

Speaker: Yeah, I made sure I was doing everything by the book, but it also was stressing me out. Like, oh yeah, I really, that day could have flipped out on those people screaming at me. I don't take being yelled at nicely, and if you're gonna yell at me with cuss words, dude, I'm a sailor's daughter who turned into a trucker, so like for real, I have a mouth that you would not appreciate.

Speaker: And those situations. So the fact that I stayed calm, the fact that I was just like, no, no, that's illegal. I'm not paying the fine for you. No. And that's all I kept saying, [00:34:00] no, no, that doesn't matter. You need a letter. That's all I kept saying. I was keeping my responses short because if I'd have made them any longer, you would've heard the spice in my voice.

Speaker 2: Oh my goodness. But 

Speaker: so, yeah. But I was able to do that, even with all that pressure on me and then to get fired because I said, why did they come outta the woodwork when I'm here? Like, dude, for real. I was forever getting to Karen's forever. And if you don't think this woman was a Karen, I was sitting outside waiting for a friend to get done 'cause he was gonna be off in like 10 minutes and he was gonna take me home.

Speaker: And, this couple walked by me and the guy turned to his wife and was like, are you happy now? And she was like, yeah, that felt good.

Speaker 3: So, 

Speaker: yeah. 

Speaker: The way leaders [00:35:00] communicate, set expectations and support, their teams can either create a positive environment or it can contribute to the stress in the environment. 

Speaker 2: That's right. If you 

Speaker 2: have, if you have a manager that fairly says what they mean and does what they say, then you're excellent. If you, on the other hand, have a manager who does not do what they say and does not say what they mean, like you have to read into every little thing they say, because you totally have to try to figure out what they mean.

Speaker 2: Then that creates a bad environment for everybody. Like, why am I here? I don't wanna be here anymore. And then you have, post office workers that you know. But when it goes bad, it goes really bad. 

Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. Leaders absolutely need to create that safe environment.

Speaker 2: And [00:36:00] especially with that example you shared earlier when people are just arguing, it really dampens the feeling of your mental wellbeing. And that just can compromise how you feel. And when there's that tough environment that starts to build up, it really takes a toll on you. But on the other hand, when people realize how they're communicating and become much more intentional about providing a safer space for people to express each other, people will feel better because they have that opportunity to say what's on their mind.

Speaker 2: Instead of, people just arguing, yelling, screaming. Swearing, that doesn't really lead to any productive conversation, and especially when it comes to leaders, when they open up that space to really listen and give their employees or team members that opportunity to really share, instead of the leader just [00:37:00] stepping over being boss.

Speaker 2: And the cruel phrase is being blessed by the Pope. Being a leader is not a magical title that gives you all these rights and responsibilities. Leaders should work and earn, that responsibility that's given to them. So you've brought up some excellent points, Nikki. 

Speaker: So this, bullet point list that I have here has five different.

Speaker: Leadership styles and who they're best for, or what the effect of that type of leadership style would be. So first you have transformational leadership, which is best for employee wellbeing. It's traits are inspiring, motivating, vision driven, fosters, personal and professional growth. Now, these are not the oak drinkers, okay?

Speaker: This is not what is meant by that. These are the people who can actually motivate, not just think that they're motivating 

Speaker: that's right. 

It's actually helpful. The impact on the mental health of the employees [00:38:00] means that they feel valued, engaged, empowered, and it boost job satisfaction and reduces stress.

Speaker: So they're going home, going, okay, I mean, nobody's going home. Yay, I got to go to work tomorrow. Like, that's not. Anybody,

Speaker: Love 

Speaker 2: that example. 

Speaker: You may need some medication if that is your response. I'm sorry, but there's gotta be something wrong with you. Okay? But these are the people. Like you look at work and you're not, I don't have to go to work. 

Speaker 2: On the edge of your seat. That's right. 

Speaker: So there's an example. This says, A leader who encourages creativity, offers mentorship and recognizes achievements, creates a positive mentally healthy workplace. So that is an all around good person. You want that type of leadership, right?

Speaker: Like your mental health is good. That probably means you're [00:39:00] being more productive. You're not sitting there contemplating if I throw the computer, how fast will I get fired? Right. 

Speaker 2: That's right. When it comes to transformational leadership, especially when it comes to mental health, you're really looking out for just the wellbeing of the other person.

Speaker 2: The other person is, again, they're not on the edge of their seat, on their toes looking out for fear or any threats or any dangers. But when a transformational leader is in the room, that other people just feel this sense of growth and development and that sense of danger is eliminated because transformational leaders really want you to ex really express yourself and take risks so that you can further go and develop in what you set up to do.

Speaker: Now next we have servant [00:40:00] leadership, which is empowering and supportive. It puts employees first focusing on team development. And emphasizes empathy. Impact on mental health is employees feel heard, supported, less anxious, and encourages a work life balance and emotional wellbeing.

Speaker 2: What I like about servant leadership is that these are the types of leaders that will roll their sleeves up and really support you in the work you're doing because they're not the types of leaders who will say, here's task A, B, and C, DE, FG. Here you go, do it. Servant leaders will actually be with you side by side and completing task A through G alongside.

Speaker: I wanna make a point that I think the servant leadership also. The good ones anyway, are going to be those that don't take credit for their team or other people's work. That kind of person, yes, they're working with you, like you've all worked [00:41:00] on this slide and there's gonna be an end title slide or something that has everybody's name on it so that everybody gets a, credit for the work that they've done.

Speaker: You can probably do the transformational leadership would probably do the same thing. You know, make sure that the people who do the work, get the credit because there's nothing worse than doing something and then watching somebody else go, yeah, I did that, because no, you didn't wanna end up in the trash compactor later.

Speaker 2: Excellent point, Nikki. 

Speaker: I wanna make a very big point here. Like I have said some weird stuff. I say like kind of violent stuff all the time. It's a verbal thing. I am not a violent person. I'm not gonna put anybody in a trash compactor. That is not my style. I do that verbally so that I don't do it physically.

Speaker: There's a difference. 

Speaker 2: Nobody in the trash compactor, as far as credit shared, you made an excellent point. 

Speaker: Now [00:42:00] we have in the middle of the pack a bad one. Cratic leadership, high stress and burnout risk. These are the people you don't wanna work for.

Speaker: These are the people who are making it a hundred percent stupid bad for you to be working with them. So their traits are top-down decision making, minimal employee input, and strict rules. These are the ones who, if they do have a casual Friday, it's why did you show up in black pants? They're supposed to be blue.

Speaker: Or vice versa. You know, these are the ones putting them stupid rules on when you can go get an soda from the vending machine. Or letting the office thief steal the food all the time and you can't do anything about it. 'cause you have no proof. Yeah. Or gonna get proof. 'cause here's one thing, obviously I'm not the skinniest person in the room [00:43:00] and that's fine, but I don't think anybody should be stealing anybody's food.

Speaker: And let me tell you, if I find that somebody is stealing my food consistently, I'm gonna do something.

Speaker: I have ideas like the laxatives or the spiciness, something gonna happen to one of them meals and we're gonna find out who's stealing. Because I'm not, you don't touch my poop.

Speaker 2: When you see someone making frequent trips to the bathroom, the restroom, it's them, Nikki, it's, yeah, it's gonna be them.

Speaker 2: Hey, 

Speaker: Bob disappeared awful of suddenly and we haven't seen him in an hour. Where'd he go? Oh ha, there's your poop. That accident a real good one. So he ain't gonna be out until it's time to leave probably. And he may or may not have an accident on the way home.

Speaker: He gonna learn today. [00:44:00] He ain't messing with me.

Speaker 2: Oh my goodness. But when it comes to autocratic leadership, these are the types of leaders that would send someone to go on a coffee run. And when they return and there's not the right amount of creamer and not the right amount of sugar, there's are the types of autocratic leaders that will just get extremely upset.

Speaker: For example, a boss who enforces rigid deadlines without considering workload can create a toxic high pressure environment. So if you tell your boss this, for sure, even with all-nighters being in this, it's gonna take about six weeks and they go, yeah, you have three. 

Speaker 3: Oh yeah. That 

Speaker: is the kind of person that needs to eat an egg.

Speaker: Yeah. No, Liz, a fair, I'm not French. It's a, not have the accent, but, it's [00:45:00] kind of, uh, it can be positive or negative, so you never know what you're gonna get from this, right. But it's traits are hands-off approach. Employees have full autonomy. So if you have employees that work well this way, this is fine.

Speaker: Yeah. This is, this can be a positive thing. Yeah. But if you have the type of job or situation where your employees kind of need to know a direction to go in or something, then this is probably going to be very stressful and not quite so good. So it's kind of one of those 50 50, take your bets and you might lose type situations.

Speaker 2: That's right. If, the work is really complex and sophisticated, that's where it can cause a lot of confusion. And if a laissez-faire leader just sits back and watches, sits back with popcorn, even worse. 

Speaker: I was actually listening to something before this, one of those fake AI stories. I don't know. I listened to them while I work so that I can do the work [00:46:00] faster.

Speaker: And it was, the brother was like eating popcorn while the family feuded around him. It was absolutely hilarious. 

Speaker 2: How did that go? 

Speaker: The other brother loved it. He thought it was hilarious. And the rest of the family not so much, but

Speaker: okay, so the impact on mental health can empower highly independent employees, but it can lead to stress and uncertainties for those who need get it. Just like I said, that's 

Speaker 3: right off 

Speaker: the gate. Like it can work for some, some employees are really like nose to the grindstone. Let's keep going.

Speaker: I got it. They all on their own, the a plus students from school who, didn't relax at all, and this is them again, in the work culture, they're doing the same thing. And then you have those CD, e people in school who are now in the middle of the work culture going that I didn't know what to do.

Speaker 2: Throw their hands up. [00:47:00] 

Speaker: Mm-hmm. And they're like, no, no, you're supposed to help me. And so you end up that, that can be very negative and stressful for them. 

Speaker 2: That's right. 

Speaker: On the other hand, some of those people need to be weed out 'cause you don't want too many of them in the same workplace because they can create an environment of laziness.

Speaker: Now I have heard that like Microsoft dude, has said in the past that if you want a hard task done quickly put a lazy person in charge of it. 'cause they'll figure out a way to do it. Easy. I've heard that. Yes. But that does not, the same thing as somebody who needs guidance to do every single step.

Speaker: Like some people have legitimate needs, like you give them a couple of set parameters and they're good to go. Right. Or you could end up with people who are constantly, they have three projects to do, but they don't know what [00:48:00] step they're on. They don't know why they're doing it. They don't. At some point you have to cut that kind of thing off because they shouldn't be there in the first place if they can't figure out what they did yesterday.

Speaker: And so what needs to be done today, 

Speaker 2: that's just gonna lead to more confusion. 

Speaker: Yeah. It also puts a lot of pressure on those A plus people to take on the slack from those people who are not doing it. And then it's a group project all over again and guess stressed out that's, 

Speaker 2: that's gonna overwhelm them.

Speaker: Transactional leadership, stable, but can be stifling. This is the last one. So this one rewards, it has rewards and punishments, so you focus on structure and routine. And so if you're not doing the routine, then you get punished. I think this one with the laissez fair, if you do it in combination, can help those [00:49:00] people who.

Speaker: Hold my hand every day type people. So you do that? Yeah. Like, okay, I know that this group of people over here has got their crap down and they know what they're doing, and I'm not gonna have any problem from them, so let me leave them alone. And then you come over here to these people and you're like, okay, look, we're gonna work today.

Speaker: We're gonna get this done. And here's the reward. If you get it done, that those people are already having the fruits of that labor. 'cause they're doing it right. Like, don't That's right. Punish the other group and not give them the prize because they, they're already doing work. That's not fair either.

Speaker 2: That's right. 

Speaker: But in the long run, if you, you give them their reward, right? The real focus people, you give them their reward and then you come over to the. I almost said stupid group, but the hands out group. 

Speaker 2: The other group. 

Speaker: The other group, and you tell [00:50:00] them, this is your reward. At the end of the day. 

If you manage to be able to come to me at the end of the day and tell me what you did today and it actually be work, 

Speaker 3: Hmm. 

Speaker: Like these are your five tasks today. How many of them are you gonna get done? I don't know. It depends on how much a reward you get, how many of those things you get done. So if you do all five, you'll get the whole, you know, reward.

Speaker: But if you don't do all five, then you get less of the reward. It's gamifying in corporate world. Right? 

Speaker 2: That's right. 

Speaker: And this helps those people who need the, okay, I have five tasks, that's great, I'll go do them. They go and they do, they're gonna get the reward, right. And all of it. But those people who.

Speaker: I don't know what day it is or probably high. No, I'm not saying that.

Speaker 2: Let's just say have a lot in their mind.[00:51:00] 

Speaker 3: Sorry. 

Speaker 2: Fun employee.

Speaker: The absent minded, the ones who sit there we go off into space forever. For whatever reason that may be. Random drug testing is a thing, but, you take care, you tell them you have these five tests too. If you get them done, all five of them, then you get the reward.

Speaker: If not, there is a punishment. One of you are gonna get fired today. You might actually get some work out of them. But here's the thing with that though, you have to follow through. You cannot tell somebody that they have three tasks to do today, and if they get all three, they get a reward and they do all three.

Speaker: And don't give them the reward. 

Speaker 2: That's right. 

Speaker: You can't punish the group that always does all the tasks by not giving them the reward when they've already earned it. [00:52:00] 

Speaker 2: That's right. That'll turn them off. 

Speaker: That will quickly turn that a plus student into your laziest worker yet, and not in the way that means anything will get done.

Speaker 2: That's right. Um, 

Speaker: but then again, if you tell someone that the threat of firing is on the table, you can't put it on the table unless you're willing to do it. Because if you're not willing to fire people who are not getting the job done, you're just gonna let them coast along and ride everybody else's coattails then.

Speaker: Why did you put it on the table? That's right. It's just like a parent. It's just like a parent. If you tell your child that they're gonna have to go into timeout, if they don't learn how to shut up or whatever reason you come up with, and you never put them in timeout, they don't learn their lesson no matter what they're doing, then guess what?

Speaker: That means [00:53:00] I don't have to listen to you. 

Speaker 2: That's right. 

Speaker: I could do whatever I want. Now, this doesn't sound like it's too much to do with mental health, but it really is because if you are in a workplace that is not harming your mental health, then that's right. You have a lot of ways that you can grow.

Speaker: Yes, you go into a workplace that, when you were in the HR meetings getting hired that said they had a great workplace culture and everybody is lovely and golden drops of sunshine and all that nonsense. And then you walk in and your first day you're, you walk up to somebody and say, I don't know where I'm supposed to go.

Speaker: I'm new. And they're like, yeah, why do I care? Because they have no reason to care. 

Speaker 2: That's right. And that compromises someone's mental wellbeing because when they walk into an environment, [00:54:00] they're genuinely looking for support and that support's not there. It's really gonna feel stressful knowing that another hand is not available to reach out to help you.

Speaker 2: So really having that environment where when they say. They're there to help. It's really important for leaders to step in, roll up their sleeves and really provide that help that's needed. 

Speaker: I do wanna make a point though. I have all my issues. I have a lot of mental health problems, but I don't think I've ever walked into a job that I've had way back when I had a normal nine, job that was never nine to five.

Speaker: That was all, Walmart type jobs at restaurants and stuff, right? I never walked into one of those jobs and said, I'm the best person that's ever done this job, and I'm going to be amazing at it because why would I want to be amazing at working at Walmart? [00:55:00] Like there's not that kind of risk reward type thing at Walmart, right? 

There is growth, but it's very hard to get there, at least from what I understand. So. Whatever loads anybody's boat. But when you go into a situation with mental health and the first thing you do is tell somebody, I have mental health problems. You have to cater to me. Guess who's not lasting long somewhere?

Speaker: Because they're gonna get rid of you as soon as they can for cause And it's not because they hate you, but it's because you are going to demand everything change to suit you. And who wants to work like that, right? I don't, and I'm the one with mental health problems. That's why I work for myself. I couldn't work in cubicles because I would hear [00:56:00] everything.

Speaker: I would know exactly what was going on, but I wouldn't be able to get work done. I could not, you're not putting me in cubicle hill. No. Thank you very much. But

Speaker: mental health, yeah. 

Speaker 2: People need to be more patient with those who are, experiencing, certain levels of challenge. So being patient, opening that space and listening to see how we can support others and really meeting other people where they're at. 

Speaker: For me, as somebody like, look, this may offend people, and at this point, mental health should not be this much of a trigger thing, right?

Speaker: Like, if you have problems, are you in therapy? Are you trying to work through it? If you are good now, stop crying because your lettuce is weird. Stop crying for every single thing and pointing it back to something fake in, or fake or real in your past. [00:57:00] That this, my mom would yell at me if the lettuce was arranged this way, how did they do?

Speaker: Come on. Nobody wants to go out with out to lunch with somebody who's gonna start crying if the lettuce is arranged wrong. It's a fricking salad, right? You ask somebody with the mental health disorder, you do not have to make yourself smaller to fit everybody's mold, right? But what you do have to do is not make everybody uncomfortable every time you're in a situation just because of whatever.

Speaker: Okay? There is somebody meeting you where you're at and helping you at work. Great job. Totally for that. And then there's you taking advantage of that person's kindness and dragging it on because, but I have a mental illness. No, you have what is called a [00:58:00] taker's personality. You're gonna keep taking while that person's willing to give ah, and at some point they have to stop because you're not helping yourself and you're not helping them.

Speaker: For me, I spent a lot of years not having my brain like it shattered after a bad event, right. As in a bad, dark place. And I was just kind of coasting through life. And I probably took advantage of people that I never wanted to, but I wasn't in this the right state of mind to do anything else. It wasn't until I started actively participating and got out of my last and final bad situation for me to look back and go, okay, I didn't handle that as well as I should have.

Speaker: I don't know that anybody could have handled it any better, but I didn't do as best as I could. But moving [00:59:00] forward, I can't hold that against anybody but myself. The other person that was with me in this situation, and that's it. Nobody else in that situation was an evil person. Nobody else in that situation was anything.

Speaker: Have I had multiple situations like that? Yes. My life has been a circuit ride of fun. But it does mean. I got out of the last situation I was in, I ended up in a situation that was way less stressful. I was not being screamed at, I was not being hit, I was not being, you know, it wasn't war. Right. And once I got out of that and I sort of started being able to place the shattered pieces back where they belong and come back to myself, that's when I realized that, yeah, I had been working on myself, but I had been taking it seriously.

Speaker: And I started to, at that point because [01:00:00] nobody could help me but me. Nobody can decide, nobody can make you better. Nobody. They can't erase what happened to you. They can't fix whatever it is that happened. Like if you got in a, an accident in your para, nobody can fix that. Nobody can make any of this better.

Speaker: But what they can do is help you see and help you get through it. Because once you're through to a place where you can walk forward, then you're ready to take a job in a corporate world or you're ready to do this other thing. 

Speaker 2: So it's really a matter of perspective. 

Speaker: It's not just perspective because, we have a thing nowadays where everybody's like, you have to set goals, just set goals and you'll be fine.

Speaker: Or just do Pilates in the morning. Just do Pilates in the morning and you'll be amazing. [01:01:00] Some people can't get outta bed in the morning. Okay. And to those people I've sympathized with whatever happened to you that put you in that place because it was bad. Guaranteed. If somebody is not able to get out of bed because of how, just they have nothing.

Speaker: They can't, they're not doing, I sympathize with them, but the only way that they're going to get out of that bed, the only way that they're gonna get anything done that will make any kind of a life going forward for them is to get up and go and do, because the minute you get up and you say, I can't go back to that bed until I have one task done.

Speaker: You go do that task and then you crawl back into bed and maybe after a couple days you go, you know what? I think I'm ready to do two, two tasks and then maybe three. And then as you're building [01:02:00] that resistance and resilience and you're doing better for yourself because you're getting out of bed.

Speaker: Yeah. You're doing something, then you have a shot. At having a life instead of whatever it is in that bed, which is not helpful for you or to anyone who is supporting you in that situation? I am borderline agoraphobic. I do not like leaving my house, but I do it twice a week because I cannot stagnate, I cannot just hold up.

Speaker: Chiropractors do not come to the house. 

Speaker 2: Hmm. So I would say really getting back up, right? Mm-hmm. That's, it's a matter of really standing back up and staying back up and trying to avoid getting stuck. 

Speaker: And if you do get stuck, figure out why you're [01:03:00] stuck. What thought is making you stuck? I have anxiety. It is anxious.

Speaker: I'm anxious just talking to you, and it's totally because I don't know you from Adam. Right? But I'm still doing it because this is something that I want to put out there to people. This is something I want to do to support people. And I wouldn't be supportive if all I said was, oh, you have a spec, you know you have mental health problems.

Speaker: Oh, it's quite okay. Just curl up back in bed and you'll be fine eventually. Because that's not gonna help. It's not gonna help to say, oh yeah, you know what? You have time. Just go lay down. 'cause you don't, 

Speaker 3: mm, 

Speaker: you don't have time for that. Because if you put yourself in that bed, how long is it gonna be before you can get yourself out?

Speaker: And [01:04:00] how easy is it gonna be to slip back into it the first time something goes wrong? You have to face your demons. And they are demons and they are trying to win the sadness, the depression, the anxiety, all of it's trying to win. They're all different little demons and they're all trying to win. And if you lay down, you die.

Speaker: And so it's 

Speaker 2: about really rolling your sleeves up and pushing forward. Keep going. Yeah. 

Speaker: Because in my eyes, if you have family, if you have the stupidest reason around, you know what? I have a dog that wouldn't be okay if I were to die in my apartment or I don't, I have a flower that would die if I were to die and nobody found me.

Speaker: Right. Just very morbid [01:05:00] deal with, just stay with me. That stupid reason to anybody else can be the bedrock that you place your life. Well, I'm not gonna die 'cause I want my plants to live Well. I'm not gonna die 'cause I want my dog to live or I want my kids to live or my mom's still alive. I can't die before her.

Speaker: That will kill her. You have to take it one day at a time. And in the beginning it's one minute at a time. Everybody talks about spoons, right? You get like 10 spoons and five of them are depression. So you only have five that you can really do tasks with. Some days you only get one. You get up and you go do some.

Speaker: You go eat something. Make sure you grab a big old bottle of water 'cause that's gonna make you get up for a couple of times a day.[01:06:00] 

Speaker: And you pushed through. 

Speaker 2: Yeah. So really getting up, putting in the effort to really stay up. 

Speaker: Mm-hmm. 

Speaker 2: And not to really fall back

Speaker: nothing. It having a mental illness, having an autoimmune disease, having all these problems gives you a to-do list. Because if you stay still, especially with an autoimmune disease, if you don't move enough, you're gonna hurt more. Like you may think that this is a 10 outta 10 pain now, but just lay there for another 10 hours and that pain is gonna be a whole heck of a lot worse.

Speaker: You have to keep moving. Mental health, auto, all of that stuff is a go and do problem because, and do for somebody else go, go volunteer somewhere. If you don't need money, go volunteer somewhere. [01:07:00] Anywhere, even if it's online volunteer, where you have to show up regularly. Because what that does is you're like, oh, I'm helping that person.

Speaker: I'm doing this for that person. It's not about me anymore. It's about them. And that will give you a wait out. 

Speaker 2: So overall, staying productive. Mm-hmm. And not just for yourself, but staying productive for other people. 

Speaker: Mm-hmm. That's my advice. And it's controversial because nowadays everybody's like, oh, you have a mental health problem.

Speaker: Okay, I'm going to make sure that nothing ever bothers you again. That is so devaluing. That is so unempowering 

Speaker: interesting perspective because that does, when people with challenges really do stand up for themselves, that gives them the sense of ownership and when they have the sense of ownership. That level of independence can just soar. 

So in closing, [01:08:00] leaders need to do better and be better. And people with mental illnesses need to do better and be better. 

Speaker 2: That's right. 

Speaker: Keep going. Keep moving forward. The only thing I'll say is, okay. I, you know, dying is not the option. Dying is never an option. So hit on your big girl or big boy panties and just go and do, figure out something.

Speaker: Go. If you're passionate about growing, do that. Whatever you're, do something you're passionate about. As long as it's legal. Let's put that little caveat on there. 

Speaker 2: Appreciate it. 

Speaker: Because people can have, things that they're really good at and awesome at, and it'd be totally legal. I am not condoning illegal or violence or anything else.

Speaker: Okay. Do you have any final, thoughts on your end? 

Speaker 2: Just to tie things up, I would say leaders really do have an important role to play, especially [01:09:00] when it comes to, mental health. When a leader, as you said, Nikki, is more transformational, and that servant leadership and the right balance of that laissez-faire and transactional, if, when a leader does it right, your opening up space for other people to really feel better overall with their mental wellbeing and the joy and the happiness that they can bring to the work they do.

Speaker 2: And when a leader doesn't prevent that space, it's just gonna make things difficult. So this is a reminder for, ev for leaders out there to really. Open up that space, be a good listener, and really connect with people to make sure everyone is doing well.

Speaker: Okay, thank you very much for coming today. Your socials will be in the descriptions below and thank you for coming. 

Speaker 2: Thank you, Nikki. Thank you so much for such an open conversation and [01:10:00] the opportunity to learn from your perspectives. Really enjoyed this.