The Leading Man – Rethinking Masculinity, Leadership & Responsibility

Jason Matthews is a behavior analyst and leadership coach who helps men break through outdated ideas of masculinity and step into authentic, servant leadership. In this conversation, Jason shares how his military background, psychology training, and real-world coaching experience led him to redefine what healthy masculinity really looks like—and how it impacts leadership, relationships, and self-worth. We unpack the masculine wound, explore the 4 archetypes of wounded masculinity, and dig into why solving problems (not chasing money) leads to stronger business foundations. Whether you’re a coach, business owner, or someone navigating leadership in your life, this episode offers a grounded take on what it means to lead with integrity and responsibility.

Find Jason Matthews here: 

Website: https://relatem.com

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jason.ian.matthews

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jason.ian.matthews/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@jmatthews19

Jason Matthews
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[00:00:00] Okay, so my name is Jason Matthews. I'm a behavior analyst as well as a leadership coach. And for the past couple of years, I've really been focusing on helping men understand how they can lead more effectively and lead in a way that gets other people desiring to want to follow them. And it's all about understanding how their behavior is going to impact the way that they are seen, the way that they interact with others and the outcomes that they also get.

Sounds interesting. Thank you, I guess start at the beginning.

Sure. It really started off in the military. In 2004 I joined the US Army and was there for 10 years. The first four years were as enlisted, and I wanted to get more. So I, enlisted, I signed up, as a commissioned officer, went through ROTC, all that happy noise.

And then got my commission, in [00:01:00] communications. So I was a network, manager. I was leading a platoon of, individuals. And I learned a lot about what leadership was. Now before that, I've always known that I've had leadership potential. I've always been put in, into positions where I was given the opportunities for leadership, but I've also been a very awkward person, especially when I was younger and it took me a while to really understand how to effectively work with people.

That's where the two things really coincide. The behavior analysis along with the leadership. I know I begin to, I began to understood stand as I was. Interact with others as I was emulating what they were doing. Basically copying their behavior and realizing that I had to create my own voice in order for others to want to really take me seriously rather than me just being seen as someone who's parroting what other people did.

I had to have. I had to really understand deeply what motivated others, what they really desired, and how I could help them [00:02:00] connect with that whi, which allowed me to connect better with them. I found that when I was acting from a place where I was being a value add to them in some way, and I was really providing something that they needed, that their walls came down, they were more vulnerable, they were more willing to trust and I, and in turn I got what I needed.

And so it turned into this kind of thing where I eventually cracked the code unintentionally of what it means to really interact well with people. And then I got my degree in psychology while I was in the Army and, took the courses on leader. I was trained in leadership through the Army, and while in the Army I had a great understanding of what great leadership is and what very bad leadership is, and how prevalent bad leadership is in the Army.

The whole idea that you have to control the situation and you have to micromanage the outcome in order to get it to what you want, only to realize that it never was going to be that way [00:03:00] because micromanagement is by far the most resource and effective and the least outcome effective of all leadership styles.

So you might most annoying it all. Yes, it is the most annoying, the most controlling, it's the most, it is the least effective and it is the most likely to cause resentment because with micromanaging or other styles of leadership that rely on command and control rather than collaboration and ex exploration.

It causes the subordinates to really believe that they are subordinate, they're subservient to the lead of the leader is way up here and they're way down here if I can see my hand. And, the problem with that is it creates an unfair dynamic, known as the power dynamic, which creates the sense that, I can never match.

I can never meet your standards or I can never approach where you are [00:04:00] because there is this understanding that you're way up here and I'm not. And as I began my sojourn of understanding what real leadership was really, and it took me to the avenue of servant leadership. Which I have come to find is the most effective form of leadership that there is on planet Earth.

That with that kind of leadership, it talks about collaboration, cooperation, exploration, giving people the, a chance to really explore what they can achieve, and how they can lead from a place of where they are and still be effective while impacting those around them. It introduced Go ahead.

Quick point. Sorry. I actually, in the podcast that was went live on April 7th, I actually talked about the different types of leadership with, the person that I was talking with and, kind of what it [00:05:00] means. This one is gonna be awful, this one can be good. This one is like the one you want type.

And so just to point that out there, it. Cool. If you wanna look at all of them, that, that's cool. Just outta curiosity, what form of leadership did they really, gravitate towards? I think they were servant as well. The two we didn't like, if you put them together, they might be okay, but it was like to only reward the good people and let everybody else do their own thing.

And then it was like, punish the people who were doing bad was one of the other ones. And I was just like, no. Yeah. But thank you. When you put 'em together, that's more like a parental style leadership. Yeah. And while it can be effective, it ha still has its limitations anyway.

As I was beginning to do more investigate investigation into certain leadership and how it transforms, [00:06:00] groups. Businesses, families, social circles, everything. It transforms all, measure of interactions because it, it creates this level playing field where there is no power dynamic.

There's this no sense of, I'm up here, you're down here. It's all about the sense of this is where, we all are. We need to cooperate to create a something amazing. How can we each provide our own ingenuity, our own power, our own influence to get this done? And it creates a much more humanistic way of seeing someone as being equal to the next.

And it sees leadership for what it really is. All leadership is self-leadership. All you are doing is inspiring others to lead themselves in the direction that you want them to go. And making sure that direction, it, benefits all concerned. Where you as the leader are one of those that are concerned and, but it doesn't just benefit you primarily and then [00:07:00] tangentially, improve others' lives.

It improves all lives at the same time because it keeps in account the fact that through our endeavors we create something beyond us that is able to impact everyone. So that's what got me to, to the understanding of what great leadership is. And I started fall, started following that vein and really focused more on business because leadership business kind of go hand in hand.

And I found that I was dealing with a lot more men than I was with women, which doesn't make sense. Which absolutely makes sense. And then I found that with a lot of the men that I was coaching, that their issues necessarily weren't the leadership dynamics. It was the perspective they had about themselves and how that influenced the perspective they had with others.

And so that's why I wrote the Leading Man, a Practical Guide for. Men to lead with strength and vision is it helps the men to [00:08:00] understand what masculinity really is, what healthy masculinity is, and what a masculine leader does, and how it's not tied to command and control or punishment and reward.

It's tied to the ability to create communities, to build structures, and to provide a sense of loyalty to those they are, they are working with.

So, what are some of the problems that new clients come to you with? Not like the exact ones, but like the theme behind them. So I find that most just by all of my clients, and there's always gonna be some outliers, but for the vast majority, I find that the carry with them what I call a masculine wound and.

I came about this term 'cause I decided to rewrite what the definition of toxic masculinity is because if you look at the regular definition, it [00:09:00] basically assigns all masculinity as being toxic. And that's no good 'cause masculinity is absolutely essential for the thriving of humanity. So I changed it to be the, not necessarily the traits of aggression, competition, risk taking, and others.

It's more of the denial of masculine traits where masculine, where masculine development is absolutely necessary. And this applies to 99.999% of all men. Men need masculine mentors. Men need to understand how masculinity really develops because if it, if that doesn't happen, if it's underdeveloped, it creates a lot of tension within the men where they know this, something, but it's being suppressed.

And attention is eventually going to snap where something happens, where a person becomes very vicious, they become violent for all the wrong reasons, and they become the kind of person where people point to say, see, this is what toxic masculinity looks like. [00:10:00] Or they become someone who is so broken that they don't want to exist anymore.

Mm-hmm. And neither one of these are good outcomes because we need men that are going to act like healthy men who are who lead. And masculinity, I define healthy masculinity is the expressive nature to negotiate and. And resolve, conflict in order to achieve a shared goal. And so if you're not doing that, then you are suppressing masculinity.

And I find that the masculine wound comes about because there has been this denial of these masculine traits, either because of their parents, their partners, society, whatever. And they have retreated within themselves. And so they have one of major four traits, and this comes from, Carl Young's, theory of the cardinal directions, or the cardinal orientations.

And so just like you have north, south, east, and west with behavior, you have, freedom, [00:11:00] ego order, and social, and the, there's a masculine and a feminine expression of these. So, but since we're talking about the, leading man, we'll just focus on the masculine right now. So with the masculine, you have, freedom is the explorer.

Ego is the ruler, order is the champion, and social is the guardian. And so it's e With each of these healthy traits, you also have a wound. So when an ex, when a person who is innately an explorer is wounded, they become a lone wolf, someone who retreats within themselves, someone who does not, really engage with others.

And an explorer is someone who tries things, who's a trailblazer, who discovers things and brings it back to others for their benefit. And a lone wolf just decides that he's not gonna do that. So that's the first wound that I find that I deal with. The second one is the ruler and the wound is the tyrant.

So if you think of a ruler, someone who creates structure, someone who leads from a foundation of strength in order to provide sustainability, a tyrant is the, is your typical, [00:12:00] toxic masculine leader, the one who's de, who's desiring control. And we use intimidation and manipulation in order to get that control.

So then you have the champion and the top, the, wound of the champion is the white knight. Someone who sacrifices of himself to his own detriment in order to satisfy the needs of others. The people pleaser, the one who does way too much and exhausts himself and then becomes bitter. And then with the guardian, the wound of that is the nice guy, the one who just, at all costs, wants to keep the peace, will not create conflict, and in doing so, completely hates himself and gets, taken advantage of over and over again because of it.

So these are the four types of people that I find I deal with a lot. The white knights and nice guys are prevalent. I find that people who are lone wolves, they try to figure out themselves and they only seek help when they realize that they can't. And tyrants, they only seek help when they realize [00:13:00] that everything is falling out, falling around them, that they've basically lost all influence.

That everyone that they've ever surrounded themselves with says, oh, you're a POS. There's no, there's nothing redeeming about you. They've really hit rock bottom. And so I find that the, when people come to me that they're at this, they're at this state where they know they need to change. Something has to change because they've either been taken advantage of, they're burnt out and bitter.

They don't want to be the monster anymore, and they hate being alone. And so they want to change that. So question. So what about, so hold on. My brain has to like, figure the words out, having difficulties today, but, so the nice guy there is the nice guy because he's been wounded and he's trying to get better or whatever.

There are [00:14:00] those ones that are kind of nice, but then I was nice to you, so now you have to pay me back or I was nice to you, so now you have to do this other thing. Like they are, I don't know. I'm not describing it very well, but do you understand? Yes. So that actually falls into, in, into the White Knight and what this, there are several degrees, if you've read my book, I talk about the degrees in which, or the severities of each wound.

And there, there are different, there are stages of severity all the way from mild to severe. Mm-hmm. And so with the White Knight and to some degree with the tyrant, there is this covert manipulator that exists where they do things because they're of the expectation of what they're going to get back.

Mm-hmm. And this is especially true with white knights who have been. Wounded before, and they feel like they, [00:15:00] they deserve to get something back. It's an expectation that they go out and they, they try to manipulate the covert manipulator and they try to make it feel like it was the, it was always the other person's idea, or that the person has to bear some sort of guilt or shame because they didn't do that.

And yet there was no written contract. It was an unwritten rule, an un unwritten agreement, or reed upon, construct that was created that made the white knight feel this way. And I don't feel, I don't see this so much with nice guys. 'cause nice guys are people who will not create any kind of conflict.

They're more likely to become the resentful caretaker, someone who's going to do it, but they're going to hate themselves and secretly resent the other person because they have put themselves in this situation. Okay. Does that make sense? Mm-hmm.

So when [00:16:00] you are, sitting down with the men that you help, obviously you probably have a consult where you figure out kind of who they are and stuff, but, and how to help them. But so how does your plan work? Do you plan out every single step till the end and be like, okay, you're not where you're supposed to be, hurry up, or is it more relax than that?

It's way more relaxed. It has to be because it can't, not every single person is going to have the exact same template. And I find that when I try to pre-plan all of my sessions and it becomes way too rigid and I have to break the plan anyway because where they need to go does not fit with the plan and I need to work with the person, not the plan.

Mm-hmm. Because that's how you gain trust and spoiler alert everything that we do in life. Is a bid for trust. Mm-hmm. Because that trust is what creates results. Trust breeds vulnerability. [00:17:00] Vulnerability breeds compliance. True compliance, which is more than just the idea of persuading someone to say, for someone to say yes at least one time.

'cause the conditions were better to say yes than not. But it's more of an influential type of compliance where they say yes, because they understand why it's so beneficial for them to work within this system. And while they may not agree with it, they're gonna work with it because they understand what the result is.

So the first thing that I do is I focus on the result. And the result is always connection oriented. The result is always based on trust to breed results. And there's this one, person that I really as an author, and his name is Patrick Lencioni. And he wrote a book called The Advantage.

And in the Advantage, he talks about five layers of communication that have to happen in order for things to be effective. So the first one is creating trust. The second one is conflict. And a lot of people look at me [00:18:00] like, what conflict? Why would you want conflict? Well, conflict is absolutely necessary, but it can only be ha, it can only happen safely when there is trust.

Because the trust lets both people know that I belong. It's not the trust of reliability, it's the trust of belonging. And when you have trust of belonging, you're more likely to speak up in ways where you can challenge another person's ideas and beliefs, challenge their plans and whatever in order to create something that's going to work.

And so the conflict is there only to breed commitment. The dissolution of ideas to come down to that one thing both people can agree on to move forward with. That creates that, that's the commitment from the commitment. You create accountability. Who's going to do what, how we're going to make it work and what, and how.

We're gonna know that it is working and that is what creates a result. Being the last thing. So I use that framework somewhat loosely, where it's more about communication, trust, and results, is what I boil it down to. But in order for a person to [00:19:00] get there, they have to. Do a lot of the internal work.

The external, it's kinda like the 80 20, 80 20 rule. 80%, 20% of the result is based on 80% of the internal work that is done. And the work that you do is 80% of it. In fact, my book is based on the internal work that is done, the thoughts, beliefs, the thoughts, feelings, beliefs, decisions and actions that you have to take control over in order to really understand how you're going to interact with others, to make sure that you are motivated in the right way to get what you need and to get what oth what others are going to accept as well, so that you can achieve the goal.

And so this is a lot of the process and everything that, that I do leading up to the actual work is all internal. And so I let them know that these are things that have to be done. You have to have a certain mindset. You can't be what I, you can't be involved in what I call trace, sorry, shade behaviors, which are secretive, hollow antagonistic, divisive, and [00:20:00] eva.

You have to have what I call trace behaviors, transparency, relatability, assertiveness, compassion, and empowerment. And in order to develop those, you have to work at them. It's like working a muscle. It's something that you are constantly developing and develop them through four core skills, which are self-awareness, emotional intelligence, healthy boundaries, and stoke resilience.

And by working on those, you can understand how to utilize your five controllables, which I said before, which are your thoughts, your feelings, your beliefs, your decisions, your actions. And when you understand how to control those and realize that there's nothing else you control, you only control those through the control of those five, controllables.

You're able to understand how you can interact with others, give them the respect to, to react and respond how they need to completely own your controllables and interact with a person based on who they really are rather than what you believe they should be. [00:21:00] And through that, you're able to create the connection that is able to have healthy communication, which bridge trust, which allows results to be had.

Yeah, we all it. Some of that comes from being uncomfortable, especially at the beginning. You're more uncomfortable than you end up being later. But, I have learned that you kind of have to get comfortable with being uncomfortable because, and there's a lot of people saying that now, but I thought that way before I heard anybody else say it.

Okay. I have been dealing with my issues for a very long time, and I learned that when I'm uncomfortable, things move forward. I'm doing things, I'm in the right frame of mind for things to move, and when I am comfortable, I'm not moving at all. Mm-hmm. I'm just staying where I'm at and I can become stagnant if I don't start moving again.

And that is the big paradox about [00:22:00] comfortability. Comfortability feels like it's something that you should aspire to, but it's, it is the biggest Venus fly trap because when you become too comfortable, you become stuck. You go into a rut of inertia and you rely on the comfortability rather than relying on your ability to lead.

Mm-hmm. Now, my book is called The Leading Man, but make no mistake, both men and women have a capacity to lead. They just lead in different ways. And so with the leading man, it's all about that expressive form of leadership. And when I'm working with men who have created this rut of comfortability, I'm kind of tough on them a little bit because they know better.

And if they don't know better, they're gonna know better. And it's because they have, like you said, they have to be uncomfortable. They have to make choices that are going to take them outta that comfort zone because comfortability is a trap. It is a lethal trap that eventually will suck the drive out of [00:23:00] you.

Mm-hmm. Because you have settled for mediocrity when you can and you should be aspiring for greatness. And so the men that, that I work with, yeah. I beat 'em up a little bit 'cause they deserve it. But at the same time, I'm doing so in a way that's very compassionate and empowering. I'm letting them know that this is what you're capable of.

This is what I see within you. This is the potential that I notice. And because you're here, I know you notice that too. And you wanna get back to that. And until you do, nothing's going to change. Yeah. It's a beating them up to build them up instead of a beating them up to push them down. It's absolutely helping them become better.

Exactly. That's what it's all about. That's the only thing that I really care about, is making sure that they are honoring themselves in the best way possible.

So what are some of your great moments? We've kind of [00:24:00] talked about some of the lower moments where you're helping somebody from the beginning, but what's the high moment when somebody actually gets it, when they start doing or start believing in what you're telling them and things happen for them.

The best thing that I absolutely love, and if I get choked up, I apologize, but the best moment that I see is when a client not only understands where they're supposed to be. They're able to tell me about how they're leading. And they begin to educate me, or they think they're educating me on what leadership means.

And they are kind of, because they're telling me what leadership means to them. They're displaying their leadership through their actions. I see the beam in their eyes. I see that, that fire, that, that comes through in their smile, their facial expressions and how they talk. And it's like the dragon has awoken and it's like, yes.

And [00:25:00] so they, we just become more like people who are understanding of the same level. I'm no longer their coach. I am someone that they have learned from, and now it's their time to surpass what I could, what I've already taught them, and how that impacts them and the gratitude that they have for what they have achieved.

And just the ability to smile in a way that you see the relief, the gratitude, but also the desire. They are asking that, that question of what else am I capable of? And for me, those are the greatest moments. Yeah. They sound like they would be.

So before we mo switch topics, is there any final thoughts you wanted to say before we end [00:26:00] this? Or is this a good spot? Anyone who is really looking to really own their masculinity. Anyone who feels like they are a little lost, that they're either escaping life, they're trying to control all aspects and feeling miserably.

They are constantly acting like a, feeling, like a doormat where everyone's walking over them and they're either trying their best to gain recognition through people pleasing or just not be a problem. Go to my website related.com and you'll be able to take the personality test. You'll be able to buy the book, and maybe from there we'll have a conversation.

Okay. Will put your stuff in at the end on well in the description. Okay, so we're gonna switch over to the business topic, which. I have some notes here for, we were talking about focusing on solving [00:27:00] problems, not just making money. So there are a lot of companies out there nowadays that will tell you that you can make $20,000 if you go with their plan, or 50,000 if you go with this other plan.

And yet people pay that amount and still end up nowhere near where they think they should be because they've bought in that plan because of, I think there's a couple problems with it, but one of the biggest is they're not sharing their voice. They're not sharing their, morals, their goals, any of that.

They're sharing somebody else's and expecting the results to work. And I tend to not believe that works for people. Now I do not make a bajillion dollars a month or a year. Not in that tax bracket yet, would love to be, but I'm not. But I have a bunch of [00:28:00] different services that I do for people and it is all about helping them.

In different situations with their business. There are plenty of different ways that I can help pretty much any business do a bunch of different things. So that's perfectly fine. Does that mean that I'm rolling in dough at the moment? No, because I'm also one of those people who doesn't, find people easy.

My growth has been word of mouth from other people saying, Hey, Nikki can do that. And so I've gone there. But, if you are thinking of the problem, you're thinking about, what the problem is, first of all, because obviously if you don't know what you need to do, you know what the problem is.

You don't know anything and you're not gonna help anybody. Once you have the problem figured out, you can then figure out the solution to fix it, and then that creates a trust relationship with that customer because now you've fixed a problem for [00:29:00] them and they will come to you the next time they have a problem, whatever that problem may be that you can solve.

There are businesses that are bigger than mine that work on this as well. They go for the,

they go for, the problem solving instead of the money. The biggest point I think that I'm trying to make and I'm failing spectacularly at today, is that if you focus, if you go into something with or without somebody else's, paperwork basically, and you, and you say, I can fix this problem, but you only half baked to know how to fix that problem because you went through that course and didn't really pay enough attention.

You paid for them to do a bunch of stuff. And there's gonna come a time when you're not gonna be able to solve the problem at all. You, when the [00:30:00] algorithm does its thing and changes for absolutely no reason, you're gonna be stuck because you're not gonna know how to solve that problem anymore until you go pay for another, software.

So for me, it's being authentic. So I am me. You are going to get me no matter where you are. You're going to get trust because I'm not doing nothing stupid with any kind of anything that I'm given. Especially I'm not breaking somebody's trust because I know how that feels. And then I solve the problem so then they have a better way to go.

If you can't do those things, reevaluate where you are because you need to be able to solve a problem and not just stick out your hand for money. This is not Robinhood. We can't steal from the rich to make the poor better. It doesn't work that [00:31:00] way.

Was this leading up to a question? Not particularly. What is your opinion of it? Do you think people should go after the money or do you think they should go after the problem? Well, always the problem when you trace money, you're chasing phantoms. And you're showing yourself to be very self-serving and self-serving.

Self-service is a very short term plan that yields short-term results. Are you familiar with a theory called the Dunning Kruger effect? No, not heard of that one. What is that? Okay, so the Dunning Kruger effect, basically states that people who have the least amount of experience along with the most amount of insecurity, speak the loudest.

Whereas those who are most self-assured with the most experience tend to either speak softly or not at all. Mm-hmm. And unfortunately, we have been living the last 50 [00:32:00] to 75 years of advertising, marketing, and just information in our faces ever, really, ever since the, I guess ever since the, newspaper, in the radio and also the tv, ads of things that basically buy my stuff.

Buy my stuff. This is going to help you buy my stuff. And really, it's either mediocre or, and in the beginning it was great services and products. 'cause they had to be great because they had to rely on their own. They had to rely on their, exceptionality in order to get noticed.

But as technology grew and more advertisers started advertising and the market got saturated, people started making promises that they couldn't keep. People started making, saying [00:33:00] things that necessarily weren't true. And that led to the information age where anyone who's taken the course believes they're an expert in a certain thing when they are, as you said, are making assumptions and assumptions in any industry kill they, they kill business, they kill trust, they kill relationships.

They kill progress. And the ones who are most assured in their product or service tend to not need to do that. But because we have an, we have a society of people that are way more anxious than normal, that are way less confident than normal, they tend to vibrate well with these products and services that are subpar, that are focusing more on the money, who eventually lose all credibility because they haven't been able to do the thing that they promised, or the result that they get is minimal at [00:34:00] best.

And that's a problem. So I focus on the solution. I focus on solving the problem, but more importantly, I focus on helping my prospect understand that I understand their problem. And this is something that, that Ken Blanchard talks about in his, book, keys of Empowerment is in order for you to really.

Understand a person in order for you to under, in order for you to really get a person to understand that you understand them, you have to speak the language that lets them know you truly understand them. You can understand them, but unless they understand you, understand them, they believe that you don't understand.

Understand. So the focus is, or the focus has to be on the relationships that you create and in those relationships demonstrating that you understand them. And that's, that basically becomes 90% of solving the problem, is getting them to understand [00:35:00] that you understand exactly what their problem is and then you a firm grasp of what they're dealing with.

And when you do that's almost like an instant trust builder because now they see that you are past the BS. That you truly are an expert in your field because you get it. You get where they're coming from, you get what they're dealing with, you understand what their problem really is, and you really want to help.

And those kinds of people, it doesn't matter what industry you're in, you could be from a, blue collar worker all the way up to finance information products, coaching, whatever the entire range doesn't matter. Understand the problem, describe the problem the way that your clients or your projects needed to be understood so that they understand that you understand their problem and then [00:36:00] propose a way forward.

Mm-hmm. That's really all you need. Frank Kern, a very successful marketer actually puts this into a framework that he calls, PAIS, which stands for problem agitation, infl, insight and solution. And all this is for the most part, is helping people understand that you really get it. That you understand what the problem is.

You're agitating the problem so that you let them know that you know how this is affecting them. Then you provide the insights of why it's a problem and what this problem is doing and why a solution is necessary. So in those three areas, the PAI, you're helping them understand that you really get them, that you get where they're, where they're coming from.

The solution is the very last piece, and it is the least, important of all four pieces because now you're talking about what you can do for them. You'll, yes, a solution can be had and [00:37:00] they can get the solution anywhere, but at this point, you're showing them or you are attempting to demonstrate why you are the best fit.

Now, 80% of that was done because you help them understand that you get their problem. You may not have the most elegant solution, but if it works. And because you've under you, help them understand that you get where they're coming from and what they're dealing with, they're more likely to deal with you than anyone else.

Even if they don't buy right away, when they're ready, they're gonna go with the person who helped them feel like they were understood. Yes. You said that way better than I ever could have. Thank you very much so to, to answer that question succinctly. Yes. I focus on the problem. I focus on being a problem solver rather than a money maker, because when you solve problems, money just comes.

And if I'm, I am authentic and I will tell people if the problem they are having is not solvable by me, [00:38:00] I will try to send them to somebody. It can be self by. Or if it's such a tiny problem that it'll only take two seconds to fix and doesn't require a big to do or whatever, I'll just help them fix it because, and those are the best kinds of people to be, or those are the best kinds of, demonstrations to provide.

I've had many prospects that I've told them, I'm sorry, this is not gonna work. Either because the problem they're dealing with requires way more than what I'm focused on. And they have to go back to certain basics where without them, I'm ineffective. Or they lack the framing.

They lack the, structure that, that makes my process viable for them. I'll tell them, you're not ready for this. You need to go back and you need to do other things. You need to focus on really focusing on yourself before you can really [00:39:00] get here. You're in. You haven't done what's necessary for you to, be able to invest in yourself in this way.

And that's why I've begun really focusing on while I focus on men. I still have the qualifications of, they have to be someone who's in business. They have to be someone who, is. Doing something. They can't just, they can't be a homeless person. They can't be struggling just to make ends meet.

'cause they're still in survival mode. And you can't provide a thriving solution to someone who's still, who still is trying to survive. So I do have those kinds of criteria. I make sure that when I'm talking with someone that they meet a certain, standard and if they're already 90%, if they're already 95% of the way and they just need a perspective shift, I'll give it to them.

And they've already demonstrated they've already done the work. They're not my ideal client anyway. They're not someone that I really wanna work with because they're already a go-getter. They're already a someone who's [00:40:00] done most of what I would teach them anyway. They've understood it innately, which is great.

And so I'll just give them the solution that they need and believe that they're going to implement it on their own. Yeah. Yeah. So

what you can actually do if you stay? So first of all, I live and breathe telling people to be authentic. I was in a group one time on a zoom call or whatever, and this girl was like, oh, I wanna have people come on lives with me. I scripted it out so that you know exactly what's gonna happen and when.

But like the audience doesn't know and it looks more authentic that way. My brain about exploded 'cause it couldn't figure out how scripted and [00:41:00] authentic got to be the same thing. 'cause they're two totally different things. Because she was talking about scripting it down to Jessica tells a joke. You laugh.

Who you know, Jennifer scratches her arm. Like, it was weird. And I was just like, this is bad. Don't do this. And I totally told people in that group, don't do that. That's, nope, that'll look bad on you. But you wanna be true to who you are. You keep saying, keep if, tell the truth if it's going, even if it doesn't matter.

Tell the truth. Even if you're talking to your dog, tell the truth. It matters. It matters somewhere. Right? And the more you get in the habit of just saying the truth, I mean, look, there are times we all need to lie. Tell your wife that she looks good don't tell your wife that she [00:42:00] looks bad no matter what the dress looks like, unless you absolutely can't go outside in it.

And then you say, oh, maybe we should pick a different color. I don't know. That's on you, that's your grave to dig, dude.

But truthful. Without being and don't go the whole row. Oh, oh. You have brown hair. I think brown hair is the stupidest thing ever to live. Well, you've just insulted like five fifths of the, the earth. I don't even know what math I just said, but five fifths is one hole. Yeah, I know. It's what I, as soon as I said it, I was like, wait a minute.

That's not what I meant.

Obviously my brain is not working for me today. I am working for it. But, the point being you've insulted people with brown hair, all of them, and there was no need to do [00:43:00] that. There's no such thing as, what is it? That people are like, I'm just, I just tell the truth or I'm just, I don't know.

Anyway, brain, again. But tell the truth, not just in situations that it will make you look good, either. Tell the truth of you, end up in a situations where something has gone wrong. Tell the truth and the way you can or will fix it, or the way it needs to be fixed. So I wanna offer a bit of a caveat because, I agree with most of the things that you have said.

Absolutely. I believe that, and, again, I'm speaking more towards men here. If a man has something to say, it's all in how you present it. If, and your, comment about, about, , the comments towards women kind of made me laugh a little bit because while you don't want to create an acrimonious [00:44:00] situation at the same time, it's important to be truthful.

Because to that truthful, you create leadership. It is part of that transparency, part being transparent with your thoughts, your decisions, your actions, and your beliefs. So there is a way to say, that's not going to work. And let them know why it's not going to work and be firm in that.

If you but also provide a solution, don't just say that, that's not gonna go, that's not gonna work. Go change. Provide the feedback necessary. And PIII, I think this go also goes back to the fact that people need to stop being so sensitive or on feedback. The feedback you get is the feedback you get.

Who cares whether you like it or not. I don't say things because I wanna be, well-liked. I say things because they're necessary and if you don't like them, if I have provided a solution and you don't like it, that's kind of a you problem. And it's not my [00:45:00] job to monitor how you're going to feel.

It is my job to make sure that I'm clear, I am precise and that I'm compassionate in my language. If you choose to offense to that, well, there's a great 12 step program for that. But this is, but I'm not it, I'm going to say what needs to be said. I'm gonna be as compassionate as possible while being direct and I'm going to expect the same in return.

And if that can't be given in return, well then we have to have a new conversation. And the conversation has to be why? And there's a book that I actually have in the work right now called the Nurturing Woman. And this goes into the receptive aspect of human behavior where I talk about, masculine as being the expressive, the feminine is more of the receptive and what that means.

How that works and how that's going to influence the ways in which [00:46:00] people interact with each other. So

When men and women come together, they're, when they cooperate well and they're co-creating their reality, they are being very. They're supposed to be very deliberate. They're supposed to be transparent. They're supposed to be relatable. So they're, they are being honest with the thoughts, the feelings, beliefs, decisions and actions.

They are creating a deep relationship that's based on trust, not a hollow one. That, that is, is superficial, but has no real depth. They're being assertive, not antagonistic. They are being compassionate rather than divisive. And they're being empowering rather than evasive. They're doing all the right things in order to know that one can trust the other, one can lean on the other one necessary, and both have a responsibility to create something.

And that's why I believe that I have a hard time with believing that lying is necessary. I'm [00:47:00] sure that there are instances where leaving out some information can help, but not leaving it out to admit it, leaving it out, to delay it, making sure that you provide the information but at a more opportune time.

So I guess that'd be more about discretion and, there's the prudence rather than outright omits of facts. And even though it might be something that you don't necessarily provide right away, being able to provide it eventually will still may require a bit of an explanation, but once that explanation has been had and it's understood why, and it's a good enough reason where both people say, okay, I, I can see that, but, and it doesn't limit someone's growth.

I think that it's completely, appropriate, but that's really the only instance. The one thing, I keep the one thing, are you this chair today? Or not getting along even I, I don't know. I'm sorry it's a day. But, [00:48:00] so the one thing I, was trying to say not to do where you're saying, because I do believe tell the truth, like fix the situation, tell the truth, whatever.

But there are people who, are malicious and will tell stupid and cloak it as truth so that they can say whatever they want and be mean to certain people. Like bullying people and being mean to people is not necessary even if you are telling the truth. So this falls under the guise of antagonism and divisiveness.

So again, two of the shared behaviors that you might think that you're being, or you might justify saying that what you're saying is being transparent. Well, really, it's not being transparent. It is being antagonistic and divisive and then justifying it to evade responsibility. So all of the behaviors have to work together.

If you're going [00:49:00] to, be, if you're gonna exercise shade behaviors, you're going to exercise the shade behaviors, you're going to be secretive to your true intent, which the true intent is I feel like a piece of shit and I don't want you to know that. And so I'm gonna target someone else to make them feel bad so that you don't think about me or that I don't think about me, and that's not being transparent, that's being secretive.

Whereas a person who's transparent is going to say, look, the reason why I'm saying these things is because of this. It is based on true concern. What they true, what they truly believe as in true to their beliefs. Their thoughts and their feelings, which contribute to their beliefs. And understanding how that, and how they came to their way of thinking.

This is true transparency, helping other people understand where you come from so they can have a better understanding of you in order to appreciate you better, which is going to create a relatability it. So transparency begets relatability, [00:50:00] which also requires assertiveness. The ability to say no when the word no is necessary.

The ability to call out things that are either unjust, unnecessary, or ridiculous. And the ability to reinforce one's decisions in order to ensure. That, excuse me. In order to ensure that your own self-interests are preserved and that prevents, overgiving or evading conflict. Which is the white guy.

The white guy, the nice guy and the white knight.

This is the white guy?

Yes, the white knight and the nice guy.

Wow. Okay. Slip of the tongue there. There's more than [00:51:00] slip. So it, it prevents that kind of attitude. And then also being compassionate in your delivery, understanding that you don't wanna hurt someone else's feelings. You don't want to create division. You want to create a sense of cooperation and collaboration.

And at the end, you want to empower yourself and others. But that requires responsibility. And responsibility is the definition of leadership. And a lot of people get this wrong. People think that leadership has to do with authority. Leadership has nothing to do with authority. Leadership has everything to do with responsibility.

And because you take responsibility, authority is given to you by those who trust you with your at, with your, take on the responsibilities that you are supposed to take. With great power comes great responsibility. Or how is that said? Yeah, because that's with great power comes great responsibility and that is the definition of leadership.

You have [00:52:00] great power and you are required to take on the respon to take the responsibility and take it on with a measure of seriousness in order to get the job done. And that is what creates trust. That is what gets people to follow you. That's what inspires others to lead themselves in your direction because they are inspired by your responsibility.

The only thing that I have, let's just say is in that situation, if there is a problem with a boss or manager, it is because they are not living up to what they are responsible to live up to. They are playing at being a manager or a boss in a and are not doing the mental work they need to every day to be the best that they can be, what they should be in order to give the people who are the other people who are working with them [00:53:00] the right needs.

Now, I am not saying that this is, I'm not counting in safe spaces or any of that stuff,

stuff, but. I'm just saying like you should, as a manager or a boss, be able to interact with your other workers with a respect that allows them to respect the position they're in and not feel like crap because of the position that they're in. I'll go even further. I would say that all stakeholders, which are employees of a company, all stakeholders have responsibility to execute their responsibilities, their, actions with the utmost care and maturity as possible.

Leadership does not require title or position. When you understand that [00:54:00] leadership is something that, that everyone does, all leadership is self-leadership, which means that even the janitor at a company, when he conducts his job in the best way possible, and he is doing his job for the betterment of the company.

'cause he knows that his actions make the lives of others easier, he gains recognition because of that. He is acting as a leader within his position. Is he the CEO? No. He doesn't have to be because he is providing an exceptional service in his job. He does not see it as meaning menial. He sees it as important.

And every employee should see their job as important. And imagine if you had a company where. Let's be grandiose here. Let's say 80% of the employees at a company to include managers, directors, CEOs, the whole lot, 80% of them are acting from this idea of being, responsible for [00:55:00] their job and what that job produces and they do this time and time again, what you've created is an atmosphere where everyone is a leader and eventually they will be recognized for upper management positions.

It's not necessarily the goal because the goal is for the company to do extremely well. It's not about personal recognition, it's about the ability to enhance the overall landscape because of what you do. And that is what makes companies great. That is what creates the best outcomes, the best successes, and the most abundance than anything else.

This idea that, oh, I need to go for the top spot because it's gonna make the most money and make, give me the most recognition. Not necessarily, especially if you suck as a leader. Not everybody's gonna be I am technically, but not really. 'cause I don't go around with that title. But if [00:56:00] you own your own company, sure, but not everybody in the world can own their own company.

'cause then a lot of things wouldn't get done. I don't know because I think that the problem is we see that, again, we're looking at things from a controlled environment that the company has to control certain positions in order for things to get done. Which means that there has to be a hierarchy.

And if we get rid of the hierarchy by understanding that it's not about what we control, but how we collaborate, how we come together, and how we, work to create a, solution based on shared effort and overcoming conflict in order to achieve that shared goal. You can have a bunch of, independent organizations who specialize in many different things, who come together because there is this desire to solve things.

It's based on uncooperative, leadership rather than this idea of command and control. [00:57:00] And that requires more discipline. I think that we're beginning to see glimmers of that. We're starting to see the seed of that forming. And I think that will be eventually the way that businesses will go is that we will have not these multi, conglomerate organizations where they control everything, but that every single person who is passionate about what they do, who has a responsibility for their job and who's recognized by other companies or other, yeah.

Other organizations that all want to work together to come together to form something and not necessarily beholden to anyone other than the, results they are able to get. I think that's a possibility. It is. It's not so much about one organization owning everything. It is a bunch of these smaller ideas that come together to cooperate, to create something.

Well, I only mean that [00:58:00] not everybody can be, their own, have their own business because you have people who have, who help build cars. You have the people who put shingles together. You have, those kind of factory type jobs that you can't do at home, no matter how much anybody would want to.

Okay. So that's the difference between a home-based business and on onsite business. So you and I have home-based businesses. But that's 'cause we deal more in information than anything else. The blue collar jobs, the ones that require a facility, they require a facility, but that doesn't mean that many different organizations can't contribute to the creation, maintenance, and the proliferation of that, the, facility.

It's Oh yeah. It all about just a change in perspective rather than a complete change in systemization.