E-Commerce, Burnout, and the Price of Growth: A Real Talk with Alan Kaplan

Alan Kaplan shares his journey from burnout in a high-pressure law career to building an 8-figure e-commerce business—and the emotional and physical toll it took along the way. We discuss his flex-time staffing solution, the reality of middle management dysfunction, and how ignoring his health nearly cost him everything. This is a raw, honest episode about business growth, boundaries, and recovery.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/allenkaplun/ https://www.facebook.com/allen.kaplun

 

 

nikkis-lounge-2025-05-291901 Allen
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Speaker 2: [00:00:00] Alan Kaplan, I run an eight figure e-commerce business that's also focused on food distribution. And I'm in the process of launching a systematic, fully automated trading fund that deals in, futures. 

Speaker: So on the business side, how have you gotten there? Because you didn't just wake up one day and ta-da, all those things were ready to go. 

Speaker 2: So I gotta take you back to around 2012 or so. I was working about 80 hour weeks and living in the New York City area, commuting. My day was very monotonous, routine, and it just started with me hopping on a bus going across the river.

I lived in New Jersey, if you're familiar with it, but, lived in New Jersey, went from a courthouse to an office. I practiced law at the time, and back to [00:01:00] Jersey, back to another office. Rinse, repeat every day. And, it on its face, it's fine, right? So you have a regular job and you're making somewhat okay money.

But you're also, it's a massive struggle. You're doing a lot of hours, heavy workload. I mean, there's just, a lot of pressure building up behind the scenes. So, I just said to myself, look, I gotta find something else. And I started experimenting. One thing I started experimenting with was, e-commerce.

I've done that before when I was in college years ago. And, I went to my wife and I said, look, let's try this out. She just recently got our MBA and we started looking up suppliers. We just started opening accounts with all sorts of suppliers, getting our hands on anything we could to try to make a business out of it.

And, eventually you amass enough suppliers. Eventually something's gotta give, right? So you narrow it down and you [00:02:00] find what categories you're targeting or not so much targeting. What categories are working for you? And we started just, simply drop shipping, sending orders to these suppliers, listing them online and building it up from there at the time.

In addition to the 80 hours that I was doing, I also added this to my plate. So don't ask me if I have any hobbies. I don't, not at that time Anyway. So in addition to those 80 hours a week, we added this was our side hustle slash hobby slash additional source of income.

And eventually, it started taking off, it started picking up some traction, and it got to the point where, we both had to unwind our day jobs. So I had, actually two offices, a front office in the back office that I was, working at and I had to unwind them both and that, that took some time.

And we had a focus on the, really, the few categories that worked for us. And one of 'em was, mainly groceries. So [00:03:00] in a sense, we were one of the first pioneers in, e gry. And at that time it was almost unheard of, right? Groceries getting shipped directly to your door. Now it, it's a common thing, but going back all those years, it just wasn't done.

So we focused on that and I started analyzing some data, looking at where we're shipping to what's gonna make the most sense, and, how do we optimize this best? Well, the data led me to, concluding that we have to move out of the northeast. We have to optimize better. We need, better logistics going on.

'cause it turned into. It turned into a business where we went from just drop shipping it to getting comfortable with stocking it. And it went from, just placing orders to your suppliers from your apartment to, getting a storage unit to storing stuff in my office. And e eventually, you're stocking inventory, getting better pricing, getting more momentum and velocity going.

And so the data led us to Texas where we just picked [00:04:00] up, moved halfway across the country, on a pretty short notice, just a few months notice. And the blocker there was, just wrapping up the law practice, wrapping up all these loose ends that we had to do before we finally made that move.

And eventually you just graduate to different levels. So by the time we were in Texas, we had to graduate to working with, a third party logistics center, which is basically just a fulfillment center. Where you set up the inventory, it wasn't very big. It was, about 20,000 square feet or so. And it actually had some grown, well, it had some challenges and had to downsize.

So e eventually I ended up with my own warehouse about a 10,000 square foot warehouse that I signed a lease on. I knew nothing about warehousing. And it showed, it definitely showed, okay. I did not instill any confidence in the staff whatsoever, but it had to be done. Okay. So [00:05:00] here we have this white collar guy, just his entire, smarts came for whatever he learned in school and everything like that.

And here we are with the warehousing staff and, they're pretty street smart. They can sense when you don't have confidence, they can sense when you don't know what you're doing. And one of the, one of the pivotal things that we did was, we were allowed to, because the fulfillment center over there was going through its own struggles.

We were allowed to hire away the warehouse manager there. Okay. And we were one of the major accounts. So the transition wasn't too difficult. Okay. But it was one of those things that we had to do, and we took it from there and we started innovating. We started figuring out how to ship out glass, how to ship out chocolate in the middle of summer.

And, that was a challenge I didn't see coming because, I mean, Nikki, if you've ever visited Texas, it is hot here. It is beyond hot. Okay. 

Speaker: I lived in. Fort Worth for two years. And I can tell you I did not go [00:06:00] outside in the summer. 

Speaker 2: Yeah. So here we are, we're figuring out how to ship chocolate in the summer.

We knew it could be done, or at least I was pretty confident it could be done. Question was how do you engineer that? And when you do that, you're capturing a lot of market share. 'cause what does e-comm do? E-comm does not ship multiples in the summer. So we were able to do that and eventually it just, it grew, bigger and bigger as we started optimizing more, a warehouse in Texas, extended into another warehouse in Pennsylvania.

That was around 2017 the following year. Then we launched in California and Los Angeles because that was strategically important for us. And then the warehouse in Pennsylvania. Grew from just under 10,000 square feet to 30. And that's actually our main facility right now. Long story short, I ended up with warehouses on the East coast and West coast.

Integrated the Dallas Fort Worth warehouse that [00:07:00] we had, the Dallas Fort Worth area warehouse that we have. It was actually in Denton, integrated that into Pennsylvania. And here I am operating remotely from Texas and we're running these warehouses, we're running warehouses on the east coast and west coast.

So that was, those were the good times. There were obviously a lot of pains and struggles and I dunno if you want me to get into that now, but there, there was, I mean there were some serious, challenges there. All right. And a lot of learning I had to do and, figure stuff out, figure out, what is my leadership style?

How are we going about fixing problems? It just doesn't happen on its own. So that's it in a nutshell. On the e-commerce side, we did not grow into an eight figure business overnight. It just doesn't happen. But within a few months, it did become a six figure business.

When we moved to Texas, it was a seven figure business, low seven figures, I think about 1.2 million or so. Is what we [00:08:00] were doing in sales. Eventually, you just grow into that kind of level at, as you work out your supplier relationships, work out your logistics and operations and finance and everything like that.

Speaker: So my important question, and I think this is gonna lead us into the mental health stuff, maybe a little early, but, what happened during COVID? 

Speaker 2: Oh, well, what happened during COVID? Was, we were in a situation where, and everybody was in this situation. Every business had this challenge. You were not allowed to work as an employee.

You were ordered to stay home, yet you want your product, you want your stuff. And a business that was essential to operating during COVID was allowed to stay open, as long as they provide all those protections. So, during COVID was one challenge. There were other challenges pre COVID, just right before COVID.

But during COVID, we [00:09:00] basically, I mean for me, it was just completely no sleep. I was living a corrupted wish at that time for the employees. They had challenges in figuring out, well, where are they gonna get a sitter?

Daycare centers are closed.

If you're dropping off, your kid to the YMCA for childcare, well, that's close too. They relied on their churches. That's closed. Everything was closed, yet everybody wanted their stuff at the same time. So we had to figure a lot of stuff out during COVID and one of, in observing a lot of the staff and cycling through everyone, unfortunately.

One of the things that I saw was there was a lot of anxiety, and it's not the type of anxiety where, they're just anxious every day. But the anxiety was at the commitment level that I noticed when an employer tells the employee, you must work 40 hours a week, this is your shift.

And then they're juggling around their schedule. And it creates sort of like a self-fulfilled prophecy for them where they just drop the ball, [00:10:00] they can't commit to it, and they have to drop out or they disappoint and maybe they get fired. In cycling through all these employees, one thing that occurred to me was, alright, we're gonna run out of employees.

Alright. Our reputation already took ahead 'cause we're looked at as monsters, but we have stuff to do. We have targets to meet and we need to figure out what to do here. And one thing that I came up with, which boggled, a HR had a field day with me 'cause they didn't even know how to fill out the forms after this policy was announced.

Supervisors had a field day with me, but, one thing that I introduced into that program was a flex time program. Alright. Because I had to ask myself, alright, I don't particularly like working in the warehouse. Nobody wakes up and says, I wanna work in the, at a warehouse when I grow up, right?

Not realistic. And frankly, nobody really likes their job. I don't know. What percentage of people do you think actually like the job they go to? It's gotta be north of 90% [00:11:00] probably. 

So one thing that we created was what's called a flex time program where if you work at least four hours in any, given day, you make up your own schedule.

Alright? You make up your own schedule there. There's some give and take there in terms of benefits and everything, but you make up your own schedule and. The pressure is off. Okay? You don't have to work, you don't have to meet your 40 hours. You're not gonna get fired if you don't work 40 hours.

You can come in and schedule yourself in for four hours. Alright? The burden is of course, on hr, but that's their job, right? Their job is not to have pizza parties. Those are stupid, all right? We're dealing with adults, right? Their job is not to have fun little newsletters and be out of touch with the needs of the staff.

So in observing them one thing I rolled out, was a flex Time program where we keep basically a Rolodex of people. That we can call in or they can schedule [00:12:00] themselves in, and they would be, working their shifts and we'd allocate, based on their, competencies, we'd find them something to do.

We'd find them, either they're working inventory fulfillment or, receiving something like that. Something along those lines. So, long story short, once the pressure was off, once that burden was off, once, they didn't have to make all these excuses with the typical family emergency nonsense, what we noticed was they didn't work exactly 40 hours, but close enough, 35, 38 hours, all right?

And they became productive. And then they start asking, well, what do I have to do for a raise? I wanna get out of the flex time program. I wanna get into full-time, or I wanna get into part-time. And then we set the parameters. We give them a roadmap for more raises and more benefits.

And, set the threshold for them to be more productive. So we went from massive turnover in mandating the traditional 40 hour shift to saying, alright, it's flex time for you guys. You [00:13:00] make up your own hours, you call the shots here. And it naturally evolved into this kind of system where they're taking it upon themselves to make this commitment, right?

And their coworkers, instead of, trying to figure out ways how to sneak out of work, they're just, very upfront about it. I'm off tomorrow. I need off tomorrow. Alright. They're much more secure. They're much more confident in what they're doing. It created a much more, productive environment as a result.

Speaker: I think you learned something that some people forgot to learn. Everybody learned during COVID, or at least a lot of businesses learned during COVID, that if their people were at home doing the work at home, the work was getting done faster, cleaner, whatever, and then they're all after COVID O's done.

They're all like, no, you have to come back to the office. We know you hate it here. We know you're gonna not work as much and it's not gonna be as clean, but you have [00:14:00] to come back to the office. 

Speaker 2: Well, it's a question of why, right? So what I learned about myself is I adopt a first principles approach into my management style.

So it's a question of why is it because the owners have a lease to pay? Is it because, we have to fill up the office space or is it more than that? And we had other departments. So for example, I had, an office in Century City. It was a content team and the secret sauce for this content team was they have to get together for pitch day on, on a Monday, right.

First day of the week and pitch ideas, and that required them to be together. It was a little bit difficult with c and, that team unfortunately collapsed as a result that they just weren't able to, bring in that kind of energy, and pitch the way they needed to pitch as a result, on those Mondays.

But, just to mandate, you're coming back to the office. Well, why? What is the KPI, what exactly dropped off is the [00:15:00] question. I'm not advocating for everyone staying remote, but 

you have to pick and choose the reasoning for it. 

We have plenty of remote people, analysts and so forth. It would be, to put them in an office would actually be a burden on me at this point. HR for example, offsite, we had HR in the office. They're easily corruptible, easily interfere with people. My people, anyway, we take 'em offsite, write an email, send a slack message, do anything you want.

Just do not come in the office. Do not appear in the operation. Alright? 

Speaker: Yeah. No. My sister's company, which I don't know what they do 'cause it's none of my business, but, all of their KPI said that the people were working better at home and they brought them all back to the office. 

Speaker 2: Okay.

Why did they do that? Any idea? 

Speaker: No, my sister still doesn't know, and it still pisses her off. All I have to go, all I have to do is say, how was your day today? I had to go in today. So 

Speaker 2: [00:16:00] yeah, I never, we have software developers. I've never needed software developers in the same room. But at the same time, I found it very unproductive that they're just communicating through project management boards.

And instead, my attitude towards that was like, look, all of you speak English, right? Here's slack. Write each other a message. Don't just, go into submitting tickets and waiting four hours for a response. 

So, yeah, it's because that could be done more so now on Slack than before.

You don't have to send an invite, right? You don't have to send an invite for a Zoom call. Here you go Slack huddle, calling a meeting on five minutes notice. All right. It really just depends on the reasoning. I obviously, look, if you're manufacturing, people need to come to the factory.

You're not gonna build a jet, working out the office, right? 

Speaker: No. And true to point, I see a therapist, and I hated seeing a therapist over Zoom. Technically it wasn't Zoom, it was whatever their thing is, but it's just like Zoom, so [00:17:00] whatever. But, I hated seeing a therapist over Zoom.

Like, you don't get the same, I don't know, whatever. So I love being able to go back into the office, like the same 

Speaker 2: connection, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. 

Speaker: But at the same time, there are pla like an assistant of any kind, probably doesn't need to be in the office. I say probably because there are a few things that.

Maybe they have to be, but I technically, I am not a va, but I do some of the things that a VA would, working together with the people that I work with, and no, I don't ever have to be in person with them. We have meetings, we talk, we communicate. Open communication helps in some of those places where it's a bit weirder, 

Speaker 2: but yeah.

So why bring big people into the office when the KPIs are indicating, it's either [00:18:00] just as good if they're remote. And look, I'm a proponent of first principles analysis. All right? Look to what the common truths are, remove the assumptions and build the system from there. If you're just doing it to fill space, 'cause you have five years to go in your lease or something like that.

Why are you doing this? Sublet it out. All right? 

Speaker: And your people will be happier because Yeah, they're doing what they want. I mean, they're still working, but they're at home so they feel more comfortable.

Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, look, picture something, someone coming out of la I lived in LA for a few years and we have a warehouse there and look, traffic is horrendous, all right? Gas is five bucks a gallon, $6 at times. And I remember, I rented, just for interviewing, I took, it wasn't a WeWork, it was one of those, but I rented a conference room and my warehouse was 15 miles away.

It took me, to monitor the traffic patterns to see when I'm gonna finally pay [00:19:00] my onsite visit there, and I deferred it for two days because of the traffic I. When I finally got there, I timed myself. It took me one hour on the, on that highway to travel 15 miles. I literally drove 15 miles an hour, alright, on average.

And I was not in a slow car. I was in a, I think I was in a sports car at that time, but, it wasn't me, it was traffic. But, if you're in a densely populated area like that, you have to take into that account, this commute that you have people, driving to, the burden that they have to exert on themselves just to get to work and leave.

That all has consequences to it, right? You have to really examine whether it's worth it. Are you better off now that we have a road environment and technology got better, is it worth it? Right? 

Speaker: And my sister does not live in the middle of the country.

She doesn't live in Texas or California. She lives where you left because of She is up there in the, in northeast. 

Speaker 2: Oh, she lives in Northeast. [00:20:00] Yeah. Yeah. So she lives in the New York area somewhere. 

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Because everybody, I would imagine even the top senior level executives are taking that into account.

I hope so. Because, I remember my commute just going from downtown, New York City to Midtown. I'm sitting there with a calculator on the subway going, I'm wasting about two weeks of my life just on this little commute per year. That's vacation. That's 80 hours a week.

I'm wasting. Yeah. 

Yeah. So it's just one of those things, it just requires analysis. It's not a yes or a no. It's a, let's go over these facts, okay? Are we better off, are we more competitive with people working remote or hybrid situation or, is it all hands on deck, everyone to the office?

It just depends. It really just depends. 

Yeah, but , the COVID times were something, pre COVID that was a different phase, and, that was a phase [00:21:00] where everything nearly collapsed, I almost had to shut my doors down on that one, because all the processes broke down.

And, as a result, I spent the entire summer of 2019 fixing everything. I actually slept in the office of my own warehouse for about three weeks. Just making it happen. Yeah. That was something. And by the time everything got fixed by Labor Day three months later, or, well, I guess about six months later, COVID broke out and, we were on the stay at home order.

Here we are, the Flex Time program is going quite strong. We actually, I borrowed it from the restaurant model. If, a lot of restaurants, especially in densely populated areas, you might have, a very small restaurant with a huge roster of servers to call on to fill in.

So we kind of borrowed it from there. But the ironic result of that was these flex timers behaved as though they were full-time. Many of 'em made it to full-time status. And we didn't have to leverage our Rolodex to call people in. We don't [00:22:00] have that kind of chaos that I expected.

We have the opposite result. And it's really just taking it's the mindset's just taking off the pressure

Speaker: lot of places for me, I have worked my own business for what I feel like is forever, but I do remember when I had a regular job, like working at Walmart or working as a line cook.

A lot of times people will say, well, if you can't come in for the whole eight hours, then you have to call out. If you're trying to leave early, you're not dependable or whatever. Right. 

Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, that's, I guess that's maybe like a more of an authoritarian style, of leadership. But,

I have to observe the behavior, right? Because there are only so many people in Lebanon, Pennsylvania, that's the culture you're dealing with, right? And, chances are if they signed up for their job and they started coming in, they're coming in good faith.

[00:23:00] And you kind of, for me, I'd rather build a system around that, right? So, and I see a lot of middle managers, and I had middle managers before that, their attitude, at least when it came to explaining stuff to me was, oh, they're all lazy. Everyone's lazy. 

Speaker: I hate that excuse so much.

Speaker 2: And yeah, as a matter of fact, I let go of middle managers. I promoted, employees to supervisory levels. And then promoted them from there. So I don't even hire from the outside anymore. I've really, if I can avoid it, I don't do that. And that's really why, 'cause it, when they tell you, look, you have to make eight hours a day, or, if you don't come in tomorrow, don't come in at all.

What are they really doing Right. Or are they making their lives easier? Or, do you think they're giving the analysis to the higher ups and saying, we have this kind of pain point, we need to figure something out? No, they don't. They're, just say, okay, well these employees are not coming in.

They're all lazy. Fire them, rehire them. It is just very nearsighted kind of thinking, because [00:24:00] you have to kind of observe the culture. We had a different culture in Pennsylvania. It's not la it's not Texas. And we had to build around that. So, yeah. It's one of those things,

and I, I assume it, it was your, it was the middle manager putting all that pressure on you to come in and all that stuff. 

Speaker: Oh, yeah. At Walmart, it was the one who didn't like me because she was a manager in training when I got hired, and she was the sixth person to come over and try to teach me how to do something.

And I was just kind of, you know what? I have been told how to do this already. Please leave me alone. She did not appreciate that very much, but good gravy, like one or one person. You, one person teach me how to do something and I will be fine. I don't need everybody in here telling me how to do it their way.

Especially since the one who was just about to try to teach me was left-handed, and I'm not, because she'd have messed up my brain to high heaven until. 

Speaker 2: She taught you the left-handed approach to do. She was 

Speaker: [00:25:00] about to, she was like, she turned the stupid little machine around that you use to take the film out of the cartridge.

And I'm just like, no, no, I refuse. I'm not doing this. Yeah, 

Speaker 2: right. So, 

Speaker: yeah, so she later, like a couple months later, became the manager, and that was a wonderful experience. P just survives.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Lately I heard like companies like Walmart, they would offer you a top rate based on a condition that you perform, and the threshold is, practically insurmountable, right? So for example, like a pick rate, they would say, all right, you'll get $31 an hour, which is their top rate.

Assuming you have a hundred percent pick rate for everything, well, all right. If that works and enough people [00:26:00] achieve that target rate, well guess what they're gonna do, right? 

Speaker: Yeah. 

Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. 

Speaker: Yeah. I worked in the photo lab, obviously since I was picking film, but, my manager decided that the way she was gonna get me to leave was to start scheduling me for like 15 hours a week.

I walked up to the store manager and I went, I was hired as full-time. She's trying to give me part-time hours, please fix it. And he walked over to her and said, you can't do that. 

If she was hired as full-time, you have to give her full-time hours. And I was, because that was the agreement I had with the lady who hired me.

The manager. 

Speaker 2: Yeah. We had an employee. The manager tried, getting rid of this individual. The tactic he used was to rotate them into different departments and just fail them on every evaluation and eventually terminate them. Now he was confronted the [00:27:00] individual, made, the employee scheduled, office hours with him and said, I know what you're trying to do to me,

Speaker: I don't like drama in my life. But if you have drama and you wanted to share it with me, let's go. I'll listen 

Speaker 2: I'm the owner of the business. I'm the one taking, cutting the checks and you have a middle manager who I'm also paying deliberately rotating someone that I'm also paying, that's also gonna either underperform or fail.

And I'm paying for the whole circus that he created.

Speaker: Yep. That's why I say, so Walmart supposedly has a thing where if you are a manager in training at one store, you're not allowed to become the manager of that store. They're supposed to ship you off to a different store. 

Speaker 3: Okay. Well, she 

Speaker: had buddy buddy privileges with somebody and got hired at our store and I [00:28:00] literally heard her, I have bat ears, nobody thinks I do, but whatever.

But I literally heard her talking to somebody else and was like, I'll probably have her gone in the next six months. And that was me. So 

Speaker 2: yeah, those are the 

Speaker: people you don't wanna work for. Those are the people you don't wanna talk to. 

Speaker 2: But those are the people that end up in middle management and yes, it becomes, it becomes, office politics at that point.

Right. Where they're not working toward achieving targets. Look, I'm sure the actual owners of Walmart, like the Sam Walton his family and all those which 

Speaker: I am not one of, even with my last name. Okay. I am not one of them. Walden. 

Speaker 2: Right. Did they ask you when you, signed up to My last name 

Speaker: is Walton.

Speaker 2: Know during the Walmart interview, did they ask you, are you related? 

Speaker: Actually, they did. 

He have asked me any? Anytime. Yeah. I, yeah, I got asked that when I went for an eye appointment. So you shoulda have said, 

Speaker 2: I'm with corporate. Don't tell anyone I stopped 

Speaker: me getting fired the way I got [00:29:00] fired.

Speaker 2: But Yeah. But do you really think the owner do you think they say, they're saying, okay, we're gonna mess around with Nikki for six months, then let her go. They're looking at top line, bottom line, but they're looking at making things work. It's my, I have a problem with middle managers.

I gotta be very frank, I've come into so many where they kind of, piggyback off of their underlings or coworkers and they just earn these positions that they don't deserve. 

Right? So, and I caught onto that. Whether it was quick or not, I don't know.

But the practice that I'm using right now is high. Just promote from within, avoid middle managers if you can avoid them. 'cause they're coming in with their own agenda, right? 

They're here to make their life easier. They're not here to, boost profits. They're not here to, I mean, what are they here for?

Right? They're here to make sure that they get their raises. Even if it means throwing a lot of others under the bus, even if it means, a company suffering losses. And I'm not for that. 

Speaker: Yeah, so good news. Yeah, because it is [00:30:00] joyful news to me. Anyway, that lady lasted a year as a manager. 

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Speaker: Then she got moved to the, either the vision center, I think it's the vision. She got moved to the vision center and then she was, let go. 

Speaker 2: Yeah. Because she wasn't performing. It comes out, 

Speaker: the truth comes 

Speaker 2: out, right? 

Yeah. So I actually had to let go of a marketing manager, because it became just so apparent that she's relying on underlings and I mean, like, what?

Two, three months in, I spoke to other CMOs and they're like, wow, at least she's didn't string you along for 18 months. I'm like, it's because I've been through that type, through, through that kind of process with middle managers. Unfortunately, like to me, they know the right words to say.

They know what to put down on the resume. They know how to answer a questionnaire. And they get their job. 

And that's unfortunately, a part of the process is, really being a hawk on them. And I asked the subordinates that report to her, I'll tell 'em, look, report anything that's out of the [00:31:00] ordinary.

Okay. 'cause she's supposed to be performing all. And what was out of the ordinary was she wasn't familiar with many e-commerce policies. She wasn't familiar with, just general processes at all. You know, just relying on the, just the underlings and, trying to collect a six figure check as a result.

And that's just unfair. 

Speaker: Yeah, no, I'm not letting you steal my work. If I know the policies and procedures, I know them, but so should you if you are my manager. 

Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, if a manager tells you, okay, Nikki, so what do you do here? Oh, yeah, okay. Yeah, I knew that.

Oh yeah. Well just carry on with the rest of your day. 

Speaker: Thank you.

No, people usually know me and they can name me pretty quickly. I am a little bit loud, so people usually get to know me, not in a bad way. I'm just, why does he have a podcast? It forced people to listen to me. No, I [00:32:00] just, I say the thing, not always the only thing on my mind, but I tend to.

Oh wait, you wanna come teach me how to do this? You're the sixth person who's done it. You're left-handed. Can you please not? 'cause you're gonna blow my brain apart. 

Speaker 2: So what would you tell the Walton family? Alright. If you had some airtime with them, what would you tell them?

Speaker: Please choose a different last name. 

Speaker 2: No. You know exactly what I mean. 

Speaker: I know. Just make sure when you have a policy that says you can't be a manager at the same store you were, in training at, make sure it's being fulfilled because that's how I got screwed. She didn't like me because when I was in training, I didn't allow her to teach me how to do a left hand thing when I'm right-handed.

Speaker 2: Yeah. But it makes sense, right? It makes sense for someone to transfer to another location. Because you don't want them [00:33:00] exacting re retribution on coworkers getting even with someone that 

Speaker: Yes, because not only did I get written up, because like I said, I'm loud, so customers heard me telling her to please go away, but she yelled at me like she blew her top, yelled at me.

I didn't even know who she was. Okay. But she got written up as well, so yes, she had a vengeance out for me, and that's how I got fired. 

Speaker 6: Yeah. Yeah. It's unfortunate. It's unfortunate. Well, 

Speaker: okay, so what can you do? In some situations in life, there is absolutely nothing you can do, but walk away.

Did I walk away gracefully or did I walk away mad? I can tell you I walked away mad because I should not have been fired. 

Speaker 2: Well, she shouldn't have been there in the first place. Right? So. Exactly, so he shouldn't 

Speaker: have been fired. And the customer themselves came out of the building and were like, the husband turned to the wife and was like, are you happy now?

And she was like, yeah, I believe I am. And if it [00:34:00] hadn't have been for another friend of mine grabbing me by the back of the shirt, I was walking towards them because you just got me fired and now you're happy about it. Thanks a lot. You're so good. You should be so proud of yourself. 

Speaker 2: Yeah. Do do you have any idea how specifically she bypassed that system?

Well, she 

Speaker: wrote, so I'm, you have to get written up three times in order to get fired at Walmart. No, no. I 

Speaker 2: mean, how does she specifically end up getting a management position at that location? Is that easy? I dunno. 

Speaker: Like I said, she was just buddy buddy with somebody and they were trying to fill the photo lab thing in a hurry.

Management thing in a hurry and they should not have gone with her. 

Speaker 2: Yeah. So they gave her a waiver. 

Yeah. They gave her a waiver. I mean, 

Speaker: anybody else that was working there at that time, even if they'd had gotten promoted from sitting down or, from doing what they were doing to being a manager, would've been a hundred percent better than her.[00:35:00] 

Speaker 2: Well, alright. But you are better off for it, right? 

Speaker: Yeah, I am now, I wasn't at the time, that was back in the early two thousands, so no, I'm not still like holding a grudge or whatever, but kind of sounds like it when I talk about this because it's kind of annoying and it, dude, it pisses me off all over again that I got fired because somebody didn't like me.

Speaker 2: Yeah. So there are two types I don't like. HR is one of them. I don't like that department. Alright. Mainly because they like to meddle in things that they don't belong in. Instead of carrying out HR functions, which they often drop the ball on, and middle managers just play by their own roles.

They're sucking up to the bosses. They're very authoritative to the ones that have to report to them and rely on them. And, my experience, I can't speak for everybody, but my experience is they love lying. They're just pathological, liar, all of 'em. But, it is just the way it is that they.

They're [00:36:00] acting in their own interests. All right. Definitely not in the interest of the company. All right. And it just creates a horrible situation, they demonize the top execs to the underlings. They basically, try to communicate to, , these employees.

Yeah. It's basically conference. 

Speaker: Yeah. It's basically, this is what's gonna happen and you have not, there's nothing you can do about it. When actually the fake one, that fake writeup she gave me before that, where she kind of went around to everybody and was like, what do you dislike about Nikki? And wrote me up for all of it.

That shouldn't have been a writeup. I should have had recourse for that, but I wasn't told how to do it. 

Speaker 4: All right. And 

Speaker: then of course the final one. That's 

Speaker 2: HR for you. That, that, that's the other problem. Like you said, HR and middle managers, for some reason there, there's a stigma about HR that they only work in company interests.

I disagree with that too. For my experience, they are in their own way. There are, they are [00:37:00] sort of middle managers also, but they have their own agenda, they just have their own agenda and it's a problem, that they need to be, they shouldn't be buddy bodied with anyone.

That they should really be neutral. They should explain to employees, alright, these are your rights, these are your obligations. They should definitely tell the employer, Hey, look, these are the boundaries. You can't overstep them and make recommendations. But they're not doing that, they're kind of doing their own thing.

I heard of HR departments dropping the ball on, healthcare benefits, right?

Just missing deadlines. There's one HR department where during COVID, in her infinite wisdom, the head of hr, this is a different company, but, she instituted a no carpooling role during COVID and fired two essential employees, because they came to work together, right?

In the same car, you know, 

Speaker: their husband and wife? 

Speaker 2: No, just neighbors. Neighbors. Just neighbors aside the carpool together. It's just you gotta think through the policies, okay? You just gotta think it through. You [00:38:00] can't just be like, all right, this is the way it's gonna be.

It's my way or the highway. My experience with HR is just, too much meddling. Nobody wants to see those newsletters. They wanna know, 

Speaker: except the one place that I've seen. Again, I have not worked a corporate job. I've never been in this situation of that. The only, the most corporate job I ever worked was Walmart and I wasn't in corporate.

But, I hear stories all the time about people getting their food stolen all the time 

hR is like, we don't handle the food with that. But as soon as they put like a laxative from their doctor 

Speaker 5: Yeah. 

Speaker: Or hot sauce that they would actually eat in their food and it upsets the person who stole the food, all of a sudden it's a big deal.

And why would you try to poison your coworker? I wasn't trying to poison my coworker. That's my food. 

Speaker 2: Well, you know, it becomes hostile work environment. It becomes a question is this now a hostile work environment? That's what [00:39:00] they care about, that's the question they need to answer.

Right? So if you booby trapped your own food, you're not allowed to booby trap stuff. You're not allowed to do it. But yeah, they, I don't think they should be responsible for someone's lunch. I mean, that's kind of annoying to come into work and get to the, like, well be a detective getting to the bottom of it, post a sign or something.

Speaker: Couple of the stories, everybody knew who was stealing it, but nobody would say anything because he was a manager and was in good with hr. So, alright, well 

Speaker 2: the proper, and this is hindsight, 2020 here, but the proper course of action would've been hostile work environment, taking it up with hr.

'cause this person is interfering in other personal space, making them uncomfortable. So, and just bring it up. Just call them out on it. I've come to the, I've never heard of a manager steal anyone's food. 

Speaker: Yeah. Apparently the guy's wife was a chef and was making him really good lunches, and somebody kept stealing them all.

He put like up a camera [00:40:00] in the room where the lunches were so that he could see it. And like the dude walks in, walks to the refrigerator, picks through all of the lunch bags in there, picks this dude's lunch bag out of like the back and like walks back out with it. 

Speaker 2: Yeah. I heard of them trying to disassociate from the, from the rest of the staff just having lunch on elsewhere on the wrong terms instead of.

Not even buying, just have lunch in the same lunchroom. Why do you have to be weird about it? Well, 

Speaker: because he's stealing the lunch from somebody else. He can't be caught eating in front of them's no 

Speaker 2: guy. I'm talking generally speaking, but, yeah. 

That explains it. 'cause the guy, yeah.

'cause the employee has a wife who's a chef. He's taking advantage of that situation. 

Speaker: So let's talk about mental health. So, you said earlier that like during the part where you were building up the business that there were some hard things you had to get through. Do you want to share those [00:41:00] so 

Speaker 2: well personally?

Well, I got into, I got into how everything fell apart, right? So when I say everything fell apart, I meant everything fell apart. So one day I'm in la giving a client a tour, scheduling, I was actually invited to, a yacht party. I had to firm it up with them.

But anyway, two days later, I'm in Pennsylvania, take a, take what? A two three hour drive to Pennsylvania from New York City. And here we are transitioning from, a small warehouse to a bigger one, a much bigger one. And you know that, that took a deep toll on me. So, first of all, I did mention.

I had to sleep like three weeks in my own business, alright? 

In the office of my warehouse. That is something, in retrospect, I really don't know, even though what the correct answer would've been looking back on it. But it's something that I felt I had to do at that time because it's either do this [00:42:00] or except the consequences and you're left with nothing, all right?

You're left with absolutely nothing. The processes just fell apart. The, it was a different culture. What worked in California, did not work in Texas. I'm sorry, what worked in California and Texas did not work in Pennsylvania. It just all fell apart. And at the same time, my own manager there, he was going through his struggles.

His mom was admitted to hospice. She lived in the uk. He had to fly back there, so he had to drop everything and go there. So here I am, I flew in there. It must have been nine, 10 o'clock at night. And I am just going over everything, going from the, I looked at the new warehouse, everything's on the floor, didn't get a chance to look at the existing one that we have, the original one, which was just a few blocks away 'cause it was so late.

But, there was a lot to do. And I'm thrusted into this culture that is very unfamiliar to me. Very different group, very rough, and [00:43:00] I'm just rebuilding everything from the start. All right. And I had to keep my finger on the pulse. This was, it was one of those things where. There was a reason why I slept there.

It wasn't 'cause I couldn't afford a motel room at least I could have afforded that at that time. But, I had to keep my finger on the pulse. I had to figure out, okay, if I have an idea that popped in my head at 11 o'clock at night, I want to execute it, right? I wanna be there, right?

I want, I wanna be there before the first person goes in and way after the last person leaves. 'cause I need to analyze stuff. So that was a major struggle. All right? A lot of people were working their nine to fives, enjoying life. Here I'm basically rebuilding from the ashes here. And before you know it, the then COVID hits, all right?

So the, here I am, sleepless days, sleepless nights. Just, I can't even tell you. I mean, wow. It must have been way over 80 hours a week that I was working, but. 

You know, it, it was one of those things that life kind of thrusts you into, right? 

I never asked for code to broke out totally outside of my control, but [00:44:00] I had a roll with the punches, right?

Had to work on recruiting. That was me working round the clock 24 7, practically 24 7, bouncing around between airports, 'cause I have other warehouses and other obligations. But, just bouncing around, working around the clock, that takes a toll on you. That definitely takes a toll on you.

It was to the point where, you're almost like a zombie, just kind of going through the motions there. Just laser focused on what you have to do. That was some corrupted wish I was living, honestly. That was, if you can imagine this corrupted wish where, okay, you have a mansion, you have a garage full, a hundred thousand dollars cars, and you're just bouncing around from one motel room to another.

Okay. Not enjoying any of the fruits of your labor, just running through everything just like that. That's like a, that's like a major toll. It definitely took a toll on my health. It probably aged me a good five years, if not 10, [00:45:00] yeah, it was quite a problem.

There were a lot of, health consequences as a result. That, that I'm still working through. But then it's a question of, alright, well was there an alternative? What was the alternative then? You're kind of put in this position where you have no choice, right?

I lived through my own trauma on that one. I will say, I'll never repeat that ever again. 

Speaker 3: So, way too old 

Speaker 2: for that. But, it did take me through, it just took, it did, it was pretty traumatic. In that sense. And it shows up in the blood test.

It shows up in the weight gain.

Speaker: So the lesson that you should learn from that is when you completely ignore your own body for weeks at a time. And concentrate only on whatever months you're concentrating. Months at a time. Sorry, months. That's even worse. My duke, so months at a time, it's going to, it's karma is [00:46:00] booming.

I don't mean that in a bad way in this case anyway. I mean that as you're putting all the energy into your business and none of it into you now it's gonna boomerang and now you're gonna end up with health problems that are harder to get rid of than just a cold. 

Speaker 2: You're basically putting a debt on your body.

Mm-hmm. You're putting a debt on everything. By focusing on that now, it's not to say that you shouldn't put somewhat of a debt on, but you shouldn't ignore it either. 

Speaker: You should be careful about how much debt Yeah. You rack up on your body. 

Speaker 2: Exactly. Exactly. You can't say, well, screw it.

I'm not doing this.

Speaker: No, it doesn't intend to work that way. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2: That has some consequences too. Yeah. 

Speaker: I have had a body that hate, has hated me since birth, basically. I've had glasses since I was five and I've had psoriasis since I was five. Psoriasis actually longer than the glasses.

[00:47:00] Really? Because they finally figured, geared out my problem with high stepping when I went to kindergarten to get my, eyes and ears checked to see if I could go to school. And they were like, yeah, she needs glasses before she comes back here. And my mom's like, glasses. Is that what she needed?

Because military hospital. Yay. Military hospital. They did do spinal taps. Nobody thought to check my eyes,

When you have basically a preexisting from birth condition, you learn that there's only so much time that you can spend ignoring it. It's going to get really mad and really loud and very painful, and you have to come back to it.

So that debt for me is faster. I don't recommend it to anybody because you, if you do it long enough, hard enough and with enough whatevers, 'cause you have to have [00:48:00] kahunas to do it for longer than a couple weeks or months. It could end up killing you as the debt you've taken all the debt your body can handle and it could, make you no longer on this planet.

Speaker 2: It especially, yeah. For me it was sleepless nights. Just lack of sleep and it showed, it definitely, I had, I have my, someone from my wife's side, just looked at me, is like, wow, Alan, you're ugly. What happened here? Scary looking. But, it just showed and

it started manifesting itself with, with, elevated cholesterol. Right. So all of a sudden I have high cholesterol. Yeah. I was eating at gas stations, right? Mm-hmm. 

That was a wake up call. Be much more judicious in what you're eating. Be much more selective. I ironically, the stuff I was selling was like natural foods.

But they were snack foods, had to get a bite somewhere during COVID. It's only, junk food restaurants that were open. 

So that it started manifesting there and, and just snowballed. I mean, it was to the point [00:49:00] where, my blood test results showed I had neither any testosterone nor any estrogen.

Speaker: And what did that make you? 

Speaker 2: When you barely have the energy to drive yourself over to get a blood test. Yeah. That, that, that was a problem. So it was a lot of, just a lot of self care that you have to do afterwards. 

And as a result, I started, taking my care a lot more seriously.

I train, at least three times a week, weight train and all that stuff, eating right and everything because you, you have to take care of it, right? Otherwise, you're just gonna drop that and collapse. Yeah. That was an extreme and, mentally it definitely takes a toll on you,

Mentally, I'm not reliving those dark days. Okay. It's not happening. 

Speaker: So here is my PSA, if you are living with depression and the only thing you are eating is ramen, please remember that little packet is like 90% salt, and it will cause [00:50:00] a debt. 

If that's the only thing you're eating.

So that's 

Speaker 2: horrible. That's absolutely 

Speaker: horrible. 

Speaker 2: And speaking of depression, I was going to a doctor, it's one of those suburban doctors, that treats housewives and all that stuff. She asked three dumb questions to try to, prescribe antidepressants to you. And I said, no, I'm not going for that.

I am not going for that. Take depression a little bit. My PSA is just take it more seriously. Don't just, defer to one physician's. I can't call it a prognosis, just one physician's suggestion, because you have to kind of question their motives. It is three questions, really enough to determine whether you need an antidepressants and it could make things worse.

I think I've seen probably more people on the antidepressants. That are not cured versus the ones that are cured. 

Speaker: So most of the mental health medications, just so people don't get the wrong idea, are not meant to cure, they're to help you become at least a tiny bit [00:51:00] more normal.

Speaker 5: Yeah. 

Speaker: So for me, my emotions kind of go wherever they want to when I'm not on meds and I don't need to be doing that to people. I don't need to be crying. 'cause it's Tuesday, I don't know. Yeah. Sometimes it's stupid. You don't really know why. So yes, I am on something that kind of encapsulates them a little bit.

Speaker 5: Right. Perfectly 

Speaker: fine. And it's not off of one doctor's thing, it's off of it. It was a, I think it took a year and a half for me to get a diagnosis. So there was time. It took time and effort and people listening. So. No, the first person with that first, Zyrtec, not Zyrtec, whatever the z antidepressant is anyway.

Zoloft. 

Speaker 6: Is it Zoloft? Zoloft, 

Speaker: yeah. Yeah. I think that was my first antidepressant I was given. I was like, this isn't doing anything. Why are you giving me this? 

Speaker 2: I think about it was, I'm here at a doctor's appointment. It's not my annual physical. I'm here for an ailment. [00:52:00] And she would ask stuff like, she asked only three questions.

One, one of them being, have you done any fun in the last week? Okay. 

Speaker: Oh yeah. Okay. So the list, I terrify more nurses by being completely honest with that list than I have ever actually gotten any help because of that list. Because I don't care. I'm gonna be perfectly honest. I'm gonna tell you, I'll answer those questions.

And then the person leaves and the doctor comes in and they're like, you're seeing somebody for that, aren't you? And I'm like, yes. And they're like, okay, we don't have to do anything. No, you don't. You shouldn't be asking me anyway. 

Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, in my case, I'm just like, this is lunacy. Like, have I, and it's whether I've done anything fun last week or not, should not be the key determinant of if I need to.

No. 

Speaker: For any, the, the things that I've been given, the list is usually seven to 10 questions. One of them being have, are you seeing or hearing things that aren't there? Are [00:53:00] you, um, are you, um, do you want to take yourself off the planet? Yeah. Or do you want to take. Others off of the planet are, are included in the list.

And so, yeah. No, I tell them as soon as I'm ready for my, my, I love meat jacket, I will let somebody know, but it is not today. 

Speaker 5: Yeah. Which actually 

Speaker: made my doctor's office because they learned that I am being seen by a therapist and I'm doing the meds thing. They're like, okay, we're gonna stop asking you those questions.

I'm like, that's great. Now I don't have to terrify your nurses because they don't know what to do. 

Speaker 2: Well, they have their own weather. They do not hear 

Speaker: things. I do not see things that are not there. But, um, I, I do, I am actively passively wanting to take myself off of this planet, which means I won't actively do it like by myself, but if something were to happen, I wouldn't move out of the way either.[00:54:00] 

Speaker 2: Uh, I know I, I take a different view. I, I, my, I, it's not scientific at all, but you know, my view is, okay, should we all be onde depressants or antidepressants rather? Maybe the world has to change. Maybe the environment has to change around us. All right? 

Speaker: Mm-hmm. 

Speaker 2: All right. Yeah. And my 

Speaker: environment changing around me has changed a lot too.

So 

Speaker 2: yeah, there's that mean for the better Nikki. 

Speaker: Yes, for the better. Very much for the better. I have stepped out of some pretty bad situations and I'm in a very good situation now. I, um, I love the per, I love my friend that I'm living with, like, not like that, but um, yeah, like we're really good friends.

She helps me a lot. She is the epitome of calm. Have you ever like broken a plate and had your mom scream at you in like six different octaves? I have and it's actually more terrifying than the plate, the plate breaking. I broke something around Kim and she just kind of went. I hope you picked that [00:55:00] up.

Well, what just happened?

Why are you mad? Like, what is happening? Are you messing with me? Are you gonna yell at me later? What is happening? And she was like, no, it's fine. It was a mistake. You're great. And I'm just like, 

Speaker 2: you take it from what it is. I mean, what, what the plate come from? The Ming Dynasty. Did you inherit it from the Habsburg umpire?

Like what was this like? 

Speaker: I mean, it was something stupid. I can't remember what it was, but it wasn't anything of wealth. But yeah, it was, she was literally just, why would I be mad? I saw what you did. It wasn't on purpose. You're fine. Let, let's pick it up and I'll get you a bandaid for your leg. 'cause one of the shards had come up and hit my leg, so I was bleeding, but it was just like the complete opposite that I've ever had in my entire life with anybody.

Yeah. And so it was one of those moments that was like, oh, wait, I can be safe around you. 

Speaker 2: Wa [00:56:00] was your mom more like a control freak? 

Speaker: My mom was a narcissist who, uh, was medically neglectful. 

Speaker 2: Okay. Yeah. I I was just wondering if she tried to just control every little facet of life and breaking something was not on the agenda.

Speaker: Uh, you know, those Corning wear plates that like, don't break for nothing? 

Speaker 4: Right. 

Speaker: I was putting one of them suckers away above my head. I was putting it in, dude, I don't know what happened, but that thing exploded above my head. Like exploded. My dad was standing right next to me and he even, he went, what?

The, and my mom was 10 words deep before my ear stopped ringing from the explosion. So like, what? It is. It was, I, what did I do? They're supposed to be on brick wall. Yeah. Instead of 

Speaker 2: going, okay, I just paid for Gorilla Glass, it'll, it almost killed my daughter. You're 

Speaker: like, just break the, this thing just broke right above your head.

Is your [00:57:00] eyes okay? 

Speaker 2: Yeah. 

Speaker: Did you get anything in your eye? No. Okay, fine. Let's clean it up and we'll keep, my mom would scream and she would get these foams at the side of her mouth from her. And it was, at least in my teenage years, it was so hard to be in a fight with her and not just start laughing.

But I knew that was a stupid mistake to make. 'cause I'd done that once before.

Life has it shenanigans. If you are dealing with, wanting to take yourself or others off of this planet, I suggest that you go, if it's an emergency, go to the hospital. They will point you in the right direction for a nice three day stay, to help you get back on your feet. And, if you are on medications, please do not let anything we've said here today take you off of your medications because you don't know yet if they're actually needed.

That is a conversation between you and your meds doctor or your doctor, okay? So [00:58:00] just wanna get that PSA in there before. Can I say something about that? 

Speaker 2: Even though I'm not qualified, I do remember what I learned in, sociology class regarding, regarding suicide. And studies have indicated that usually those that commit suicide or attempt it are of the view that they're either trying to get away from something that they can't or trying to break into something that they can't.

All right? So keep that in mind. You're trying to get away from a lifestyle that looks, impossibly, like insurmountably, bleak, can't get away from it, so they off themselves.

Or it's the other way around. Right. Trying to get into a group that you'll never get into, for example.

If they are sort of contemplating it might pay to examine that, examine if it's truly the case that you're trying to get away from a life that you'll never get away from, because chances are that can't be right. That's impossible.

You could always change the environment around you. [00:59:00] 

Speaker: Yeah. I didn't talk to my mom for the year before her passing, her whole side of the family. I don't talk to them. I don't talk to two of my sisters. I have gotten rid of, at this point, the toxic people that I have been around throughout my life, and I did it.

You can too. 

Speaker 2: All right. And you became better as a result? Yeah, 

Speaker: I'm much more relaxed. I'm around people who actually love and care about me, and that has been doing, that's been great for me. 

Speaker 2: Yeah. Did you ever see yourself initially in a situation that you can't get out of? Yeah, there 

Speaker: were a lot of different situations that I thought, nothing.

This is the worst it's ever going to be. I'm never gonna be any better. This is the worst I'm ever going to be. It can't get any better. 

Speaker 2: And then you realize how you feel, and that's not a lot things around.

Speaker: Yeah. You just have to meet a new friend, talk to people. Sometimes we get so much in our head that we're not actually talking to anybody and just talking to [01:00:00] a, somebody we know of as a friend might help.

Because it lets all the cobwebs out when you actually talk to other people. So 

Speaker 2: yeah, it's true. It's a lot easier to change your environment than a lot of people think. They think that they're bound, by all these social ties or family ties and everything.

Mm-hmm. And it just weighs on them, right? 

I can tell 

Speaker: you that if you need to get away, walk 

Speaker 5: Yeah. 

Speaker: You don't even need a car or any of that other stuff. Walk, yeah. Go to a bus station, get a bus, pass somewhere, new state or whatever, and just do something that's gotta be better than where you were.

You be starting over? Yes. It's gonna be scary at first. But you won't have the people you had screaming in your ear that you're a dumb ass or an idiot, or whatever it is that they say to you. You'll have your own. I am deter, I am fixed and determined to make a great life for [01:01:00] myself and just keep going.

Get a job. Yeah. Keep moving and keep growing. 

Speaker 2: Yeah. Or not even, not even abusing you, but just weighing you down. I have the same thing. After my father died, 80% of the people like basically carved out of my life. After that, it just shed a lot of clarity.

It shed a lot of clarity that, these people, I'm around, they're here to take and, just take whatever I have to offer. Right. 

One of my 

Speaker: sisters. One of my sisters is a pathological liar. The other one will ask you to borrow 20 bucks this week and she'd give it back next week.

But first she has to take you to an ATM and then she needs gas money, and then she needs whatever she bought in the store paid for. And so by the time it's at an end, you actually spent like $40 on her. But she's only gonna give you that 20 back next week if it's next week. 

Speaker 2: Yeah. If only for 20. For me, yeah.

For me, the bank of, Alan is completely closed. Yeah. [01:02:00] Completely. Yeah. Go to a bank, go do whatever you gotta do. And if it means, not being friends anymore, so be it. 

Speaker: Yeah. Also, my sister that likes to take money is she was also the golden child. She was the one my mom like doted on and loved up on and stuff, and she was just as far up my mom's butt as you could be and still be a human being.

And, so when my mom died, she went nuts with the, you can't talk bad about her, she's dead. I went, yeah, show's Hitler leave me outta this. I could talk about bad about anybody I need to talk bad about. As none of your business type thing. And she ended up blocking, she disowned me and my sister and blocked us both.

And then tried to come back a year later and just be like, people you may know, no thank you. I have blocked six of her accounts. Now you disowned me. Why do I have to talk to you? 

Speaker 2: Do you have any reason? Do you know why [01:03:00] she tried to reestablish connection with you? Well, because 

Speaker: that's what she does.

She'll stop talking to you for a while, and then she wants to slide back in because she needs money again, or she needs whatever again. And I don't have that for her anymore. 

Speaker 2: All right. For me, I have, it's more comical. It's more like with my wife and her sister. 'cause one's a millennial, the other's a younger millennial and millennials like to cancel each other.

So all of a sudden you say something, you say the wrong word, you say the wrong line. That's it. You're canceled. 

Speaker: No, my, that sister is my older sister and she is, the Gen X. 

Speaker 6: Yeah. 

Speaker: I'm just barely on the line. 

Speaker 6: Yeah. April of 81. So like, 

Speaker: I'm like right there. 

Speaker 2: Yeah. But yeah, for me it was just, it was just too much.

I mean, especially when you think about it, as soon as they found out, okay, I have a law degree, I practice law. Lawyers charge a lot of money. I mean, that's it. It was just nothing. But take, take, take. 

Well, how about asking, okay, Alan, how are you feeling about, after the funeral?

How about [01:04:00] attending the funeral? How about acknowledging that there was a funeral? All right. Yeah. 

Speaker: That doesn't happen. 

Speaker 2: Yeah. And, at some point you just need to, you're better off. You're much more productive just carving them out of your life and moving on.

And, back to the point about suicide, it is that easy. It is. It is that easy just to pick up and walk away, 

Speaker 3: right?

Speaker 2: I mean, how many domestic abuse survivors have you heard of that just walked away with nothing but the clothes on their back? 

And yeah, it'll be tough.

It'll be a struggle, but it'll eventually work. 

Speaker: And if you're in a DV situation, I believe you can go to pretty much any hospital or the police station, and they will put you in a domestic violence shelter, which means that there is no contact from the outside world. And he can't get in or she can't get in, depending on that.

And that way, you can try to move on without that on your back. 

Speaker 4: Yeah. So sometimes it works, sometimes, well, most of the time I guess it works, [01:05:00] but yeah, because it's 

Speaker: actually like the first six months after somebody leaves a DV situation that they're most likely to be involved in a violent situation from that person finding them again.

So being in a shelter that doesn't allow that person to come anywhere near, and then most of those shelters will take you to a different state, or send you to a different state, to pick up the pieces. 

Speaker 2: Yeah. But the point is you can change your life around, right? If there's a situation you're in, you can step away from it.

If there's a situation you try to get into, I feel like it's hopeless. Well, that's a different story. It depends what the situation. Change 

Speaker: your goal, maybe change your goal. You have to work on yourself more before the, you can do that thing. Or maybe it's that you have to be realistic and you're not an Olympic swimmer.

Speaker 2: Exactly. 

Like, if it's, only a handful of people on the planet earn one. 

If that's, what's driving you to suicide change your goal. 

So it is just the way it is. [01:06:00] But popping pills and all that stuff, I'm so against it.

I don't know. I think there's too much abuse of that happening, try to work it out with your own lifestyle before you decide to take that kind of shortcut. It might work, it just might work,

Speaker: but if you're currently on meds, don't touch anything without talking to somebody.

'cause some of the side effects and things that can happen if you go off of a drug, abruptly, will not help your situation. That's the only reason why I'm saying that. Like, if you're on meds, keep taking your meds until you talk to somebody about them and see what you can step down on or whatever.

Speaker 2: Yeah. What would you say to people that kind of lost faith in their doctors? Would you advise? It is 

Speaker: so easy to get a different doctor. 

But at the same time, why have you lost faith? Is it because they haven't diagnosed you with anything? Dude, I've had a headache since 2019. Two weeks ago it decided to become a migraine, and so I've had a migraine every day for the last two weeks instead of just a headache, which.[01:07:00] 

Absolutely sucks and no, it has not been fully diagnosed. The medicine they have me on makes me lose words. It sucks. I would like to go off of it, but when I did that, my head pain got worse. So I'm back on it. Obviously. I am waiting to see a neurologist, but if you have a situation where you have to wait time until you can get to the specialist, there's literally nothing anybody can do.

Having faith in your doctor at that point isn't a thing. My doctor is fine, but she's also not the one that needs to deal with any of this. The neurologist does because they are the people who know about heads better than just a general physician. 

Speaker 5: Right. 

Speaker: If it's because your doctor is a guy and you're a female and you would rather see a female doctor walk your happy butt up to the front desk of your doctor's office and say, Hey, I'm not comfortable with a dude.

Can I have a female that goes for. Therapists, doctors, it [01:08:00] doesn't matter. I have a couple of male doctors, actually, let me rephrase that. I have one male doctor that's my rheumatologist. He has never had to touch me in his life, so he gets to keep being my rheumatologist and we're fine. But if you feel more comfortable with a dude instead of a female again, so there are many ways you can be unhappy with your doctor and it's all about trying to figure out a solution.

I think there's just so many different solutions for whatever the different problem is that should not be part of the reason you are thinking of leaving the planet. 

Speaker 2: Yeah, and probably make an attempt to get several opinions. Get three opinions. See if that makes sense. Try to, if your insured 

Speaker: will allow it.

Otherwise paying for some things is expensive, but 

Speaker 2: yeah, perhaps, yeah. But it's still always best to, scrutinize your doctor a little bit, see if what they're telling you makes sense. See if it makes practical sense for [01:09:00] you. Have 'em explain things a little bit better, 

Speaker: completely. If your problem is that your doctor talks in language that is for doctors and not for you tell him he needs to bring a nurse in with him, that can translate. 

Speaker 3: Yeah. And I've done 

Speaker: it before because the doctor was just like, I have a college level reading and comprehension. I can comprehend a lot when you get too far into the textbooks for medical 'cause I've never done that.

I start to lose you. And so I've literally had to have his nurse like, can you just translate into like plain English, whatever the crap it is he just said, 

Speaker 2: I sent my wife to, the head of neurology right in, in Dallas. You should see this guy. He looks like Jack Black.

He talks in Jack Black 

Speaker 3: neurologist. That's all we need.

Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. Yeah. This guy, he's very mellow and talks in plain English. And he's the chair of that department. He gets millions and grants. He's a very smart guy, but he knows how to conduct himself.

He knows how to talk to patients to ease [01:10:00] them. Yeah. Right. My 

Speaker: rheumatologist is the same way. 

Speaker 2: Exactly. He comes in all disheveled with a loose tie and, very entertaining person. But, by the same token, very knowledgeable, very smart. I wouldn't trade him in for the world, but he knows how to put things into plain English.

And, when you email him, when he responds to his email, of course he's gonna respond very intelligently. He's not gonna be all like, like Jack Black, and all that, but he'll answer questions. He won't be, if your doctor's already talking to you in the condescending tone, just to, get you away from them, that's sort of like a red flag, right?

Have it, it's their job to explain things to you so you can make an informed decision, that's just the nature of it. Now, if you have a doctor that is not even making eye contact with you, they're focusing much more on their real estate portfolio than on you.

Yeah. It's time to seek health elsewhere. Yeah. Because you have to,

Speaker: doctor's office has like 10 doctors in it, so you can just switch to a different one. And if you're in one of those doctor's offices and you've switched a new one, but you're getting the same [01:11:00] treatment, go to a different doctor's office.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Also, I wanna mention, there's nothing wrong with a pa. They are no knowledgeable and caring. I see a pa they are so knowledgeable in what they do. 

Speaker: Yeah. I see. The pa I don't see the actual, I think there's four doctor doctors, but the rest of 'em are PAs. I just call them doctors because it's the same thing.

I'm going to the doctor's office. 

Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. So , if it's something routine and they know they can handle it. They handle it. If not, they refer you elsewhere. 

But they kind of tell it to you how it is and, it just because they're PAs doesn't make 'em less of a medical professional, really.

I've been a lot more impressed with PAs lately than, with regular doctors. Some of 'em have completely disappointed me. Like some of them, I just like, I can't even explain to them anything. They don't wanna hear anything. 

It's like you go to a doctor and like, if your weight fluctuates by 20 to 30 pounds a month, that, that sends off a signal.

Right. That don't applaud me if I lost 20 pounds in a month. Okay. There's something, were 

Speaker: you, the thing is somebody should be [01:12:00] saying, were you trying to lose weight and are you eating? 

Speaker 2: Yeah. 

That wasn't asked. Okay. That was more like, like that doctor pushed more of the, just selling antidepressants than anything else.

Speaker: Yeah, no, I don't like those. I also don't like the ones 'cause I am a larger person and they're like, oh, well if you just lose weight, your problems would be completely different. Dude, when my headache started in 2019, I weighed 190 pounds. I am not that anymore, but I am losing weight again. But the headache is still here.

So obviously my weight had nothing to do with it. 

Speaker 2: Right. And all right, so you need to see a neurologist. Yes. And don't go straight to a surgeon 'cause they love to cut. 

Speaker: No, I am terrified that I have a brain tumor though, because my mom had one of them. And as this keeps getting bigger, like the pain keeps getting bigger, I'm just like, I have a brain tumor.

It's growing. [01:13:00] That's why the pain's getting bigger and I don't have an MRI to, you know. 

Speaker 2: Yeah. 

Speaker: Take me down out of the clouds. So that's being a thing. I mean, 

Speaker 2: That's a major life changing step, don't just go gungho over a surgeon. 

Speaker: No. 

Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. Because some of 'em have, primarily a surgery background.

They do consulting. They're gonna lean towards surgery.

Speaker: This is my brain. We are not going No, I know how you did the surgery on my mom. You're not doing that to my head. Thank you very much. 

Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. So she came outta, she's a great doctor that you're compatible with. 

Speaker: Yeah. She came outta surgery looking like somebody punched her in the eyes.

Speaker 2: Alright, Nikki. Well, you have a great day 

nikkis-lounge-2025-05-291901 Allen
===

Speaker 2: [00:00:00] Alan Kaplan, I run an eight figure e-commerce business that's also focused on food distribution. And I'm in the process of launching a systematic, fully automated trading fund that deals in, futures. 

Speaker: So on the business side, how have you gotten there? Because you didn't just wake up one day and ta-da, all those things were ready to go. 

Speaker 2: So I gotta take you back to around 2012 or so. I was working about 80 hour weeks and living in the New York City area, commuting. My day was very monotonous, routine, and it just started with me hopping on a bus going across the river.

I lived in New Jersey, if you're familiar with it, but, lived in New Jersey, went from a courthouse to an office. I practiced law at the time, and back to [00:01:00] Jersey, back to another office. Rinse, repeat every day. And, it on its face, it's fine, right? So you have a regular job and you're making somewhat okay money.

But you're also, it's a massive struggle. You're doing a lot of hours, heavy workload. I mean, there's just, a lot of pressure building up behind the scenes. So, I just said to myself, look, I gotta find something else. And I started experimenting. One thing I started experimenting with was, e-commerce.

I've done that before when I was in college years ago. And, I went to my wife and I said, look, let's try this out. She just recently got our MBA and we started looking up suppliers. We just started opening accounts with all sorts of suppliers, getting our hands on anything we could to try to make a business out of it.

And, eventually you amass enough suppliers. Eventually something's gotta give, right? So you narrow it down and you [00:02:00] find what categories you're targeting or not so much targeting. What categories are working for you? And we started just, simply drop shipping, sending orders to these suppliers, listing them online and building it up from there at the time.

In addition to the 80 hours that I was doing, I also added this to my plate. So don't ask me if I have any hobbies. I don't, not at that time Anyway. So in addition to those 80 hours a week, we added this was our side hustle slash hobby slash additional source of income.

And eventually, it started taking off, it started picking up some traction, and it got to the point where, we both had to unwind our day jobs. So I had, actually two offices, a front office in the back office that I was, working at and I had to unwind them both and that, that took some time.

And we had a focus on the, really, the few categories that worked for us. And one of 'em was, mainly groceries. So [00:03:00] in a sense, we were one of the first pioneers in, e gry. And at that time it was almost unheard of, right? Groceries getting shipped directly to your door. Now it, it's a common thing, but going back all those years, it just wasn't done.

So we focused on that and I started analyzing some data, looking at where we're shipping to what's gonna make the most sense, and, how do we optimize this best? Well, the data led me to, concluding that we have to move out of the northeast. We have to optimize better. We need, better logistics going on.

'cause it turned into. It turned into a business where we went from just drop shipping it to getting comfortable with stocking it. And it went from, just placing orders to your suppliers from your apartment to, getting a storage unit to storing stuff in my office. And e eventually, you're stocking inventory, getting better pricing, getting more momentum and velocity going.

And so the data led us to Texas where we just picked [00:04:00] up, moved halfway across the country, on a pretty short notice, just a few months notice. And the blocker there was, just wrapping up the law practice, wrapping up all these loose ends that we had to do before we finally made that move.

And eventually you just graduate to different levels. So by the time we were in Texas, we had to graduate to working with, a third party logistics center, which is basically just a fulfillment center. Where you set up the inventory, it wasn't very big. It was, about 20,000 square feet or so. And it actually had some grown, well, it had some challenges and had to downsize.

So e eventually I ended up with my own warehouse about a 10,000 square foot warehouse that I signed a lease on. I knew nothing about warehousing. And it showed, it definitely showed, okay. I did not instill any confidence in the staff whatsoever, but it had to be done. Okay. So [00:05:00] here we have this white collar guy, just his entire, smarts came for whatever he learned in school and everything like that.

And here we are with the warehousing staff and, they're pretty street smart. They can sense when you don't have confidence, they can sense when you don't know what you're doing. And one of the, one of the pivotal things that we did was, we were allowed to, because the fulfillment center over there was going through its own struggles.

We were allowed to hire away the warehouse manager there. Okay. And we were one of the major accounts. So the transition wasn't too difficult. Okay. But it was one of those things that we had to do, and we took it from there and we started innovating. We started figuring out how to ship out glass, how to ship out chocolate in the middle of summer.

And, that was a challenge I didn't see coming because, I mean, Nikki, if you've ever visited Texas, it is hot here. It is beyond hot. Okay. 

Speaker: I lived in. Fort Worth for two years. And I can tell you I did not go [00:06:00] outside in the summer. 

Speaker 2: Yeah. So here we are, we're figuring out how to ship chocolate in the summer.

We knew it could be done, or at least I was pretty confident it could be done. Question was how do you engineer that? And when you do that, you're capturing a lot of market share. 'cause what does e-comm do? E-comm does not ship multiples in the summer. So we were able to do that and eventually it just, it grew, bigger and bigger as we started optimizing more, a warehouse in Texas, extended into another warehouse in Pennsylvania.

That was around 2017 the following year. Then we launched in California and Los Angeles because that was strategically important for us. And then the warehouse in Pennsylvania. Grew from just under 10,000 square feet to 30. And that's actually our main facility right now. Long story short, I ended up with warehouses on the East coast and West coast.

Integrated the Dallas Fort Worth warehouse that [00:07:00] we had, the Dallas Fort Worth area warehouse that we have. It was actually in Denton, integrated that into Pennsylvania. And here I am operating remotely from Texas and we're running these warehouses, we're running warehouses on the east coast and west coast.

So that was, those were the good times. There were obviously a lot of pains and struggles and I dunno if you want me to get into that now, but there, there was, I mean there were some serious, challenges there. All right. And a lot of learning I had to do and, figure stuff out, figure out, what is my leadership style?

How are we going about fixing problems? It just doesn't happen on its own. So that's it in a nutshell. On the e-commerce side, we did not grow into an eight figure business overnight. It just doesn't happen. But within a few months, it did become a six figure business.

When we moved to Texas, it was a seven figure business, low seven figures, I think about 1.2 million or so. Is what we [00:08:00] were doing in sales. Eventually, you just grow into that kind of level at, as you work out your supplier relationships, work out your logistics and operations and finance and everything like that.

Speaker: So my important question, and I think this is gonna lead us into the mental health stuff, maybe a little early, but, what happened during COVID? 

Speaker 2: Oh, well, what happened during COVID? Was, we were in a situation where, and everybody was in this situation. Every business had this challenge. You were not allowed to work as an employee.

You were ordered to stay home, yet you want your product, you want your stuff. And a business that was essential to operating during COVID was allowed to stay open, as long as they provide all those protections. So, during COVID was one challenge. There were other challenges pre COVID, just right before COVID.

But during COVID, we [00:09:00] basically, I mean for me, it was just completely no sleep. I was living a corrupted wish at that time for the employees. They had challenges in figuring out, well, where are they gonna get a sitter?

Daycare centers are closed.

If you're dropping off, your kid to the YMCA for childcare, well, that's close too. They relied on their churches. That's closed. Everything was closed, yet everybody wanted their stuff at the same time. So we had to figure a lot of stuff out during COVID and one of, in observing a lot of the staff and cycling through everyone, unfortunately.

One of the things that I saw was there was a lot of anxiety, and it's not the type of anxiety where, they're just anxious every day. But the anxiety was at the commitment level that I noticed when an employer tells the employee, you must work 40 hours a week, this is your shift.

And then they're juggling around their schedule. And it creates sort of like a self-fulfilled prophecy for them where they just drop the ball, [00:10:00] they can't commit to it, and they have to drop out or they disappoint and maybe they get fired. In cycling through all these employees, one thing that occurred to me was, alright, we're gonna run out of employees.

Alright. Our reputation already took ahead 'cause we're looked at as monsters, but we have stuff to do. We have targets to meet and we need to figure out what to do here. And one thing that I came up with, which boggled, a HR had a field day with me 'cause they didn't even know how to fill out the forms after this policy was announced.

Supervisors had a field day with me, but, one thing that I introduced into that program was a flex time program. Alright. Because I had to ask myself, alright, I don't particularly like working in the warehouse. Nobody wakes up and says, I wanna work in the, at a warehouse when I grow up, right?

Not realistic. And frankly, nobody really likes their job. I don't know. What percentage of people do you think actually like the job they go to? It's gotta be north of 90% [00:11:00] probably. 

So one thing that we created was what's called a flex time program where if you work at least four hours in any, given day, you make up your own schedule.

Alright? You make up your own schedule there. There's some give and take there in terms of benefits and everything, but you make up your own schedule and. The pressure is off. Okay? You don't have to work, you don't have to meet your 40 hours. You're not gonna get fired if you don't work 40 hours.

You can come in and schedule yourself in for four hours. Alright? The burden is of course, on hr, but that's their job, right? Their job is not to have pizza parties. Those are stupid, all right? We're dealing with adults, right? Their job is not to have fun little newsletters and be out of touch with the needs of the staff.

So in observing them one thing I rolled out, was a flex Time program where we keep basically a Rolodex of people. That we can call in or they can schedule [00:12:00] themselves in, and they would be, working their shifts and we'd allocate, based on their, competencies, we'd find them something to do.

We'd find them, either they're working inventory fulfillment or, receiving something like that. Something along those lines. So, long story short, once the pressure was off, once that burden was off, once, they didn't have to make all these excuses with the typical family emergency nonsense, what we noticed was they didn't work exactly 40 hours, but close enough, 35, 38 hours, all right?

And they became productive. And then they start asking, well, what do I have to do for a raise? I wanna get out of the flex time program. I wanna get into full-time, or I wanna get into part-time. And then we set the parameters. We give them a roadmap for more raises and more benefits.

And, set the threshold for them to be more productive. So we went from massive turnover in mandating the traditional 40 hour shift to saying, alright, it's flex time for you guys. You [00:13:00] make up your own hours, you call the shots here. And it naturally evolved into this kind of system where they're taking it upon themselves to make this commitment, right?

And their coworkers, instead of, trying to figure out ways how to sneak out of work, they're just, very upfront about it. I'm off tomorrow. I need off tomorrow. Alright. They're much more secure. They're much more confident in what they're doing. It created a much more, productive environment as a result.

Speaker: I think you learned something that some people forgot to learn. Everybody learned during COVID, or at least a lot of businesses learned during COVID, that if their people were at home doing the work at home, the work was getting done faster, cleaner, whatever, and then they're all after COVID O's done.

They're all like, no, you have to come back to the office. We know you hate it here. We know you're gonna not work as much and it's not gonna be as clean, but you have [00:14:00] to come back to the office. 

Speaker 2: Well, it's a question of why, right? So what I learned about myself is I adopt a first principles approach into my management style.

So it's a question of why is it because the owners have a lease to pay? Is it because, we have to fill up the office space or is it more than that? And we had other departments. So for example, I had, an office in Century City. It was a content team and the secret sauce for this content team was they have to get together for pitch day on, on a Monday, right.

First day of the week and pitch ideas, and that required them to be together. It was a little bit difficult with c and, that team unfortunately collapsed as a result that they just weren't able to, bring in that kind of energy, and pitch the way they needed to pitch as a result, on those Mondays.

But, just to mandate, you're coming back to the office. Well, why? What is the KPI, what exactly dropped off is the [00:15:00] question. I'm not advocating for everyone staying remote, but 

you have to pick and choose the reasoning for it. 

We have plenty of remote people, analysts and so forth. It would be, to put them in an office would actually be a burden on me at this point. HR for example, offsite, we had HR in the office. They're easily corruptible, easily interfere with people. My people, anyway, we take 'em offsite, write an email, send a slack message, do anything you want.

Just do not come in the office. Do not appear in the operation. Alright? 

Speaker: Yeah. No. My sister's company, which I don't know what they do 'cause it's none of my business, but, all of their KPI said that the people were working better at home and they brought them all back to the office. 

Speaker 2: Okay.

Why did they do that? Any idea? 

Speaker: No, my sister still doesn't know, and it still pisses her off. All I have to go, all I have to do is say, how was your day today? I had to go in today. So 

Speaker 2: [00:16:00] yeah, I never, we have software developers. I've never needed software developers in the same room. But at the same time, I found it very unproductive that they're just communicating through project management boards.

And instead, my attitude towards that was like, look, all of you speak English, right? Here's slack. Write each other a message. Don't just, go into submitting tickets and waiting four hours for a response. 

So, yeah, it's because that could be done more so now on Slack than before.

You don't have to send an invite, right? You don't have to send an invite for a Zoom call. Here you go Slack huddle, calling a meeting on five minutes notice. All right. It really just depends on the reasoning. I obviously, look, if you're manufacturing, people need to come to the factory.

You're not gonna build a jet, working out the office, right? 

Speaker: No. And true to point, I see a therapist, and I hated seeing a therapist over Zoom. Technically it wasn't Zoom, it was whatever their thing is, but it's just like Zoom, so [00:17:00] whatever. But, I hated seeing a therapist over Zoom.

Like, you don't get the same, I don't know, whatever. So I love being able to go back into the office, like the same 

Speaker 2: connection, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. 

Speaker: But at the same time, there are pla like an assistant of any kind, probably doesn't need to be in the office. I say probably because there are a few things that.

Maybe they have to be, but I technically, I am not a va, but I do some of the things that a VA would, working together with the people that I work with, and no, I don't ever have to be in person with them. We have meetings, we talk, we communicate. Open communication helps in some of those places where it's a bit weirder, 

Speaker 2: but yeah.

So why bring big people into the office when the KPIs are indicating, it's either [00:18:00] just as good if they're remote. And look, I'm a proponent of first principles analysis. All right? Look to what the common truths are, remove the assumptions and build the system from there. If you're just doing it to fill space, 'cause you have five years to go in your lease or something like that.

Why are you doing this? Sublet it out. All right? 

Speaker: And your people will be happier because Yeah, they're doing what they want. I mean, they're still working, but they're at home so they feel more comfortable.

Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, look, picture something, someone coming out of la I lived in LA for a few years and we have a warehouse there and look, traffic is horrendous, all right? Gas is five bucks a gallon, $6 at times. And I remember, I rented, just for interviewing, I took, it wasn't a WeWork, it was one of those, but I rented a conference room and my warehouse was 15 miles away.

It took me, to monitor the traffic patterns to see when I'm gonna finally pay [00:19:00] my onsite visit there, and I deferred it for two days because of the traffic I. When I finally got there, I timed myself. It took me one hour on the, on that highway to travel 15 miles. I literally drove 15 miles an hour, alright, on average.

And I was not in a slow car. I was in a, I think I was in a sports car at that time, but, it wasn't me, it was traffic. But, if you're in a densely populated area like that, you have to take into that account, this commute that you have people, driving to, the burden that they have to exert on themselves just to get to work and leave.

That all has consequences to it, right? You have to really examine whether it's worth it. Are you better off now that we have a road environment and technology got better, is it worth it? Right? 

Speaker: And my sister does not live in the middle of the country.

She doesn't live in Texas or California. She lives where you left because of She is up there in the, in northeast. 

Speaker 2: Oh, she lives in Northeast. [00:20:00] Yeah. Yeah. So she lives in the New York area somewhere. 

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Because everybody, I would imagine even the top senior level executives are taking that into account.

I hope so. Because, I remember my commute just going from downtown, New York City to Midtown. I'm sitting there with a calculator on the subway going, I'm wasting about two weeks of my life just on this little commute per year. That's vacation. That's 80 hours a week.

I'm wasting. Yeah. 

Yeah. So it's just one of those things, it just requires analysis. It's not a yes or a no. It's a, let's go over these facts, okay? Are we better off, are we more competitive with people working remote or hybrid situation or, is it all hands on deck, everyone to the office?

It just depends. It really just depends. 

Yeah, but , the COVID times were something, pre COVID that was a different phase, and, that was a phase [00:21:00] where everything nearly collapsed, I almost had to shut my doors down on that one, because all the processes broke down.

And, as a result, I spent the entire summer of 2019 fixing everything. I actually slept in the office of my own warehouse for about three weeks. Just making it happen. Yeah. That was something. And by the time everything got fixed by Labor Day three months later, or, well, I guess about six months later, COVID broke out and, we were on the stay at home order.

Here we are, the Flex Time program is going quite strong. We actually, I borrowed it from the restaurant model. If, a lot of restaurants, especially in densely populated areas, you might have, a very small restaurant with a huge roster of servers to call on to fill in.

So we kind of borrowed it from there. But the ironic result of that was these flex timers behaved as though they were full-time. Many of 'em made it to full-time status. And we didn't have to leverage our Rolodex to call people in. We don't [00:22:00] have that kind of chaos that I expected.

We have the opposite result. And it's really just taking it's the mindset's just taking off the pressure

Speaker: lot of places for me, I have worked my own business for what I feel like is forever, but I do remember when I had a regular job, like working at Walmart or working as a line cook.

A lot of times people will say, well, if you can't come in for the whole eight hours, then you have to call out. If you're trying to leave early, you're not dependable or whatever. Right. 

Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, that's, I guess that's maybe like a more of an authoritarian style, of leadership. But,

I have to observe the behavior, right? Because there are only so many people in Lebanon, Pennsylvania, that's the culture you're dealing with, right? And, chances are if they signed up for their job and they started coming in, they're coming in good faith.

[00:23:00] And you kind of, for me, I'd rather build a system around that, right? So, and I see a lot of middle managers, and I had middle managers before that, their attitude, at least when it came to explaining stuff to me was, oh, they're all lazy. Everyone's lazy. 

Speaker: I hate that excuse so much.

Speaker 2: And yeah, as a matter of fact, I let go of middle managers. I promoted, employees to supervisory levels. And then promoted them from there. So I don't even hire from the outside anymore. I've really, if I can avoid it, I don't do that. And that's really why, 'cause it, when they tell you, look, you have to make eight hours a day, or, if you don't come in tomorrow, don't come in at all.

What are they really doing Right. Or are they making their lives easier? Or, do you think they're giving the analysis to the higher ups and saying, we have this kind of pain point, we need to figure something out? No, they don't. They're, just say, okay, well these employees are not coming in.

They're all lazy. Fire them, rehire them. It is just very nearsighted kind of thinking, because [00:24:00] you have to kind of observe the culture. We had a different culture in Pennsylvania. It's not la it's not Texas. And we had to build around that. So, yeah. It's one of those things,

and I, I assume it, it was your, it was the middle manager putting all that pressure on you to come in and all that stuff. 

Speaker: Oh, yeah. At Walmart, it was the one who didn't like me because she was a manager in training when I got hired, and she was the sixth person to come over and try to teach me how to do something.

And I was just kind of, you know what? I have been told how to do this already. Please leave me alone. She did not appreciate that very much, but good gravy, like one or one person. You, one person teach me how to do something and I will be fine. I don't need everybody in here telling me how to do it their way.

Especially since the one who was just about to try to teach me was left-handed, and I'm not, because she'd have messed up my brain to high heaven until. 

Speaker 2: She taught you the left-handed approach to do. She was 

Speaker: [00:25:00] about to, she was like, she turned the stupid little machine around that you use to take the film out of the cartridge.

And I'm just like, no, no, I refuse. I'm not doing this. Yeah, 

Speaker 2: right. So, 

Speaker: yeah, so she later, like a couple months later, became the manager, and that was a wonderful experience. P just survives.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Lately I heard like companies like Walmart, they would offer you a top rate based on a condition that you perform, and the threshold is, practically insurmountable, right? So for example, like a pick rate, they would say, all right, you'll get $31 an hour, which is their top rate.

Assuming you have a hundred percent pick rate for everything, well, all right. If that works and enough people [00:26:00] achieve that target rate, well guess what they're gonna do, right? 

Speaker: Yeah. 

Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. 

Speaker: Yeah. I worked in the photo lab, obviously since I was picking film, but, my manager decided that the way she was gonna get me to leave was to start scheduling me for like 15 hours a week.

I walked up to the store manager and I went, I was hired as full-time. She's trying to give me part-time hours, please fix it. And he walked over to her and said, you can't do that. 

If she was hired as full-time, you have to give her full-time hours. And I was, because that was the agreement I had with the lady who hired me.

The manager. 

Speaker 2: Yeah. We had an employee. The manager tried, getting rid of this individual. The tactic he used was to rotate them into different departments and just fail them on every evaluation and eventually terminate them. Now he was confronted the [00:27:00] individual, made, the employee scheduled, office hours with him and said, I know what you're trying to do to me,

Speaker: I don't like drama in my life. But if you have drama and you wanted to share it with me, let's go. I'll listen 

Speaker 2: I'm the owner of the business. I'm the one taking, cutting the checks and you have a middle manager who I'm also paying deliberately rotating someone that I'm also paying, that's also gonna either underperform or fail.

And I'm paying for the whole circus that he created.

Speaker: Yep. That's why I say, so Walmart supposedly has a thing where if you are a manager in training at one store, you're not allowed to become the manager of that store. They're supposed to ship you off to a different store. 

Speaker 3: Okay. Well, she 

Speaker: had buddy buddy privileges with somebody and got hired at our store and I [00:28:00] literally heard her, I have bat ears, nobody thinks I do, but whatever.

But I literally heard her talking to somebody else and was like, I'll probably have her gone in the next six months. And that was me. So 

Speaker 2: yeah, those are the 

Speaker: people you don't wanna work for. Those are the people you don't wanna talk to. 

Speaker 2: But those are the people that end up in middle management and yes, it becomes, it becomes, office politics at that point.

Right. Where they're not working toward achieving targets. Look, I'm sure the actual owners of Walmart, like the Sam Walton his family and all those which 

Speaker: I am not one of, even with my last name. Okay. I am not one of them. Walden. 

Speaker 2: Right. Did they ask you when you, signed up to My last name 

Speaker: is Walton.

Speaker 2: Know during the Walmart interview, did they ask you, are you related? 

Speaker: Actually, they did. 

He have asked me any? Anytime. Yeah. I, yeah, I got asked that when I went for an eye appointment. So you shoulda have said, 

Speaker 2: I'm with corporate. Don't tell anyone I stopped 

Speaker: me getting fired the way I got [00:29:00] fired.

Speaker 2: But Yeah. But do you really think the owner do you think they say, they're saying, okay, we're gonna mess around with Nikki for six months, then let her go. They're looking at top line, bottom line, but they're looking at making things work. It's my, I have a problem with middle managers.

I gotta be very frank, I've come into so many where they kind of, piggyback off of their underlings or coworkers and they just earn these positions that they don't deserve. 

Right? So, and I caught onto that. Whether it was quick or not, I don't know.

But the practice that I'm using right now is high. Just promote from within, avoid middle managers if you can avoid them. 'cause they're coming in with their own agenda, right? 

They're here to make their life easier. They're not here to, boost profits. They're not here to, I mean, what are they here for?

Right? They're here to make sure that they get their raises. Even if it means throwing a lot of others under the bus, even if it means, a company suffering losses. And I'm not for that. 

Speaker: Yeah, so good news. Yeah, because it is [00:30:00] joyful news to me. Anyway, that lady lasted a year as a manager. 

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Speaker: Then she got moved to the, either the vision center, I think it's the vision. She got moved to the vision center and then she was, let go. 

Speaker 2: Yeah. Because she wasn't performing. It comes out, 

Speaker: the truth comes 

Speaker 2: out, right? 

Yeah. So I actually had to let go of a marketing manager, because it became just so apparent that she's relying on underlings and I mean, like, what?

Two, three months in, I spoke to other CMOs and they're like, wow, at least she's didn't string you along for 18 months. I'm like, it's because I've been through that type, through, through that kind of process with middle managers. Unfortunately, like to me, they know the right words to say.

They know what to put down on the resume. They know how to answer a questionnaire. And they get their job. 

And that's unfortunately, a part of the process is, really being a hawk on them. And I asked the subordinates that report to her, I'll tell 'em, look, report anything that's out of the [00:31:00] ordinary.

Okay. 'cause she's supposed to be performing all. And what was out of the ordinary was she wasn't familiar with many e-commerce policies. She wasn't familiar with, just general processes at all. You know, just relying on the, just the underlings and, trying to collect a six figure check as a result.

And that's just unfair. 

Speaker: Yeah, no, I'm not letting you steal my work. If I know the policies and procedures, I know them, but so should you if you are my manager. 

Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, if a manager tells you, okay, Nikki, so what do you do here? Oh, yeah, okay. Yeah, I knew that.

Oh yeah. Well just carry on with the rest of your day. 

Speaker: Thank you.

No, people usually know me and they can name me pretty quickly. I am a little bit loud, so people usually get to know me, not in a bad way. I'm just, why does he have a podcast? It forced people to listen to me. No, I [00:32:00] just, I say the thing, not always the only thing on my mind, but I tend to.

Oh wait, you wanna come teach me how to do this? You're the sixth person who's done it. You're left-handed. Can you please not? 'cause you're gonna blow my brain apart. 

Speaker 2: So what would you tell the Walton family? Alright. If you had some airtime with them, what would you tell them?

Speaker: Please choose a different last name. 

Speaker 2: No. You know exactly what I mean. 

Speaker: I know. Just make sure when you have a policy that says you can't be a manager at the same store you were, in training at, make sure it's being fulfilled because that's how I got screwed. She didn't like me because when I was in training, I didn't allow her to teach me how to do a left hand thing when I'm right-handed.

Speaker 2: Yeah. But it makes sense, right? It makes sense for someone to transfer to another location. Because you don't want them [00:33:00] exacting re retribution on coworkers getting even with someone that 

Speaker: Yes, because not only did I get written up, because like I said, I'm loud, so customers heard me telling her to please go away, but she yelled at me like she blew her top, yelled at me.

I didn't even know who she was. Okay. But she got written up as well, so yes, she had a vengeance out for me, and that's how I got fired. 

Speaker 6: Yeah. Yeah. It's unfortunate. It's unfortunate. Well, 

Speaker: okay, so what can you do? In some situations in life, there is absolutely nothing you can do, but walk away.

Did I walk away gracefully or did I walk away mad? I can tell you I walked away mad because I should not have been fired. 

Speaker 2: Well, she shouldn't have been there in the first place. Right? So. Exactly, so he shouldn't 

Speaker: have been fired. And the customer themselves came out of the building and were like, the husband turned to the wife and was like, are you happy now?

And she was like, yeah, I believe I am. And if it [00:34:00] hadn't have been for another friend of mine grabbing me by the back of the shirt, I was walking towards them because you just got me fired and now you're happy about it. Thanks a lot. You're so good. You should be so proud of yourself. 

Speaker 2: Yeah. Do do you have any idea how specifically she bypassed that system?

Well, she 

Speaker: wrote, so I'm, you have to get written up three times in order to get fired at Walmart. No, no. I 

Speaker 2: mean, how does she specifically end up getting a management position at that location? Is that easy? I dunno. 

Speaker: Like I said, she was just buddy buddy with somebody and they were trying to fill the photo lab thing in a hurry.

Management thing in a hurry and they should not have gone with her. 

Speaker 2: Yeah. So they gave her a waiver. 

Yeah. They gave her a waiver. I mean, 

Speaker: anybody else that was working there at that time, even if they'd had gotten promoted from sitting down or, from doing what they were doing to being a manager, would've been a hundred percent better than her.[00:35:00] 

Speaker 2: Well, alright. But you are better off for it, right? 

Speaker: Yeah, I am now, I wasn't at the time, that was back in the early two thousands, so no, I'm not still like holding a grudge or whatever, but kind of sounds like it when I talk about this because it's kind of annoying and it, dude, it pisses me off all over again that I got fired because somebody didn't like me.

Speaker 2: Yeah. So there are two types I don't like. HR is one of them. I don't like that department. Alright. Mainly because they like to meddle in things that they don't belong in. Instead of carrying out HR functions, which they often drop the ball on, and middle managers just play by their own roles.

They're sucking up to the bosses. They're very authoritative to the ones that have to report to them and rely on them. And, my experience, I can't speak for everybody, but my experience is they love lying. They're just pathological, liar, all of 'em. But, it is just the way it is that they.

They're [00:36:00] acting in their own interests. All right. Definitely not in the interest of the company. All right. And it just creates a horrible situation, they demonize the top execs to the underlings. They basically, try to communicate to, , these employees.

Yeah. It's basically conference. 

Speaker: Yeah. It's basically, this is what's gonna happen and you have not, there's nothing you can do about it. When actually the fake one, that fake writeup she gave me before that, where she kind of went around to everybody and was like, what do you dislike about Nikki? And wrote me up for all of it.

That shouldn't have been a writeup. I should have had recourse for that, but I wasn't told how to do it. 

Speaker 4: All right. And 

Speaker: then of course the final one. That's 

Speaker 2: HR for you. That, that, that's the other problem. Like you said, HR and middle managers, for some reason there, there's a stigma about HR that they only work in company interests.

I disagree with that too. For my experience, they are in their own way. There are, they are [00:37:00] sort of middle managers also, but they have their own agenda, they just have their own agenda and it's a problem, that they need to be, they shouldn't be buddy bodied with anyone.

That they should really be neutral. They should explain to employees, alright, these are your rights, these are your obligations. They should definitely tell the employer, Hey, look, these are the boundaries. You can't overstep them and make recommendations. But they're not doing that, they're kind of doing their own thing.

I heard of HR departments dropping the ball on, healthcare benefits, right?

Just missing deadlines. There's one HR department where during COVID, in her infinite wisdom, the head of hr, this is a different company, but, she instituted a no carpooling role during COVID and fired two essential employees, because they came to work together, right?

In the same car, you know, 

Speaker: their husband and wife? 

Speaker 2: No, just neighbors. Neighbors. Just neighbors aside the carpool together. It's just you gotta think through the policies, okay? You just gotta think it through. You [00:38:00] can't just be like, all right, this is the way it's gonna be.

It's my way or the highway. My experience with HR is just, too much meddling. Nobody wants to see those newsletters. They wanna know, 

Speaker: except the one place that I've seen. Again, I have not worked a corporate job. I've never been in this situation of that. The only, the most corporate job I ever worked was Walmart and I wasn't in corporate.

But, I hear stories all the time about people getting their food stolen all the time 

hR is like, we don't handle the food with that. But as soon as they put like a laxative from their doctor 

Speaker 5: Yeah. 

Speaker: Or hot sauce that they would actually eat in their food and it upsets the person who stole the food, all of a sudden it's a big deal.

And why would you try to poison your coworker? I wasn't trying to poison my coworker. That's my food. 

Speaker 2: Well, you know, it becomes hostile work environment. It becomes a question is this now a hostile work environment? That's what [00:39:00] they care about, that's the question they need to answer.

Right? So if you booby trapped your own food, you're not allowed to booby trap stuff. You're not allowed to do it. But yeah, they, I don't think they should be responsible for someone's lunch. I mean, that's kind of annoying to come into work and get to the, like, well be a detective getting to the bottom of it, post a sign or something.

Speaker: Couple of the stories, everybody knew who was stealing it, but nobody would say anything because he was a manager and was in good with hr. So, alright, well 

Speaker 2: the proper, and this is hindsight, 2020 here, but the proper course of action would've been hostile work environment, taking it up with hr.

'cause this person is interfering in other personal space, making them uncomfortable. So, and just bring it up. Just call them out on it. I've come to the, I've never heard of a manager steal anyone's food. 

Speaker: Yeah. Apparently the guy's wife was a chef and was making him really good lunches, and somebody kept stealing them all.

He put like up a camera [00:40:00] in the room where the lunches were so that he could see it. And like the dude walks in, walks to the refrigerator, picks through all of the lunch bags in there, picks this dude's lunch bag out of like the back and like walks back out with it. 

Speaker 2: Yeah. I heard of them trying to disassociate from the, from the rest of the staff just having lunch on elsewhere on the wrong terms instead of.

Not even buying, just have lunch in the same lunchroom. Why do you have to be weird about it? Well, 

Speaker: because he's stealing the lunch from somebody else. He can't be caught eating in front of them's no 

Speaker 2: guy. I'm talking generally speaking, but, yeah. 

That explains it. 'cause the guy, yeah.

'cause the employee has a wife who's a chef. He's taking advantage of that situation. 

Speaker: So let's talk about mental health. So, you said earlier that like during the part where you were building up the business that there were some hard things you had to get through. Do you want to share those [00:41:00] so 

Speaker 2: well personally?

Well, I got into, I got into how everything fell apart, right? So when I say everything fell apart, I meant everything fell apart. So one day I'm in la giving a client a tour, scheduling, I was actually invited to, a yacht party. I had to firm it up with them.

But anyway, two days later, I'm in Pennsylvania, take a, take what? A two three hour drive to Pennsylvania from New York City. And here we are transitioning from, a small warehouse to a bigger one, a much bigger one. And you know that, that took a deep toll on me. So, first of all, I did mention.

I had to sleep like three weeks in my own business, alright? 

In the office of my warehouse. That is something, in retrospect, I really don't know, even though what the correct answer would've been looking back on it. But it's something that I felt I had to do at that time because it's either do this [00:42:00] or except the consequences and you're left with nothing, all right?

You're left with absolutely nothing. The processes just fell apart. The, it was a different culture. What worked in California, did not work in Texas. I'm sorry, what worked in California and Texas did not work in Pennsylvania. It just all fell apart. And at the same time, my own manager there, he was going through his struggles.

His mom was admitted to hospice. She lived in the uk. He had to fly back there, so he had to drop everything and go there. So here I am, I flew in there. It must have been nine, 10 o'clock at night. And I am just going over everything, going from the, I looked at the new warehouse, everything's on the floor, didn't get a chance to look at the existing one that we have, the original one, which was just a few blocks away 'cause it was so late.

But, there was a lot to do. And I'm thrusted into this culture that is very unfamiliar to me. Very different group, very rough, and [00:43:00] I'm just rebuilding everything from the start. All right. And I had to keep my finger on the pulse. This was, it was one of those things where. There was a reason why I slept there.

It wasn't 'cause I couldn't afford a motel room at least I could have afforded that at that time. But, I had to keep my finger on the pulse. I had to figure out, okay, if I have an idea that popped in my head at 11 o'clock at night, I want to execute it, right? I wanna be there, right?

I want, I wanna be there before the first person goes in and way after the last person leaves. 'cause I need to analyze stuff. So that was a major struggle. All right? A lot of people were working their nine to fives, enjoying life. Here I'm basically rebuilding from the ashes here. And before you know it, the then COVID hits, all right?

So the, here I am, sleepless days, sleepless nights. Just, I can't even tell you. I mean, wow. It must have been way over 80 hours a week that I was working, but. 

You know, it, it was one of those things that life kind of thrusts you into, right? 

I never asked for code to broke out totally outside of my control, but [00:44:00] I had a roll with the punches, right?

Had to work on recruiting. That was me working round the clock 24 7, practically 24 7, bouncing around between airports, 'cause I have other warehouses and other obligations. But, just bouncing around, working around the clock, that takes a toll on you. That definitely takes a toll on you.

It was to the point where, you're almost like a zombie, just kind of going through the motions there. Just laser focused on what you have to do. That was some corrupted wish I was living, honestly. That was, if you can imagine this corrupted wish where, okay, you have a mansion, you have a garage full, a hundred thousand dollars cars, and you're just bouncing around from one motel room to another.

Okay. Not enjoying any of the fruits of your labor, just running through everything just like that. That's like a, that's like a major toll. It definitely took a toll on my health. It probably aged me a good five years, if not 10, [00:45:00] yeah, it was quite a problem.

There were a lot of, health consequences as a result. That, that I'm still working through. But then it's a question of, alright, well was there an alternative? What was the alternative then? You're kind of put in this position where you have no choice, right?

I lived through my own trauma on that one. I will say, I'll never repeat that ever again. 

Speaker 3: So, way too old 

Speaker 2: for that. But, it did take me through, it just took, it did, it was pretty traumatic. In that sense. And it shows up in the blood test.

It shows up in the weight gain.

Speaker: So the lesson that you should learn from that is when you completely ignore your own body for weeks at a time. And concentrate only on whatever months you're concentrating. Months at a time. Sorry, months. That's even worse. My duke, so months at a time, it's going to, it's karma is [00:46:00] booming.

I don't mean that in a bad way in this case anyway. I mean that as you're putting all the energy into your business and none of it into you now it's gonna boomerang and now you're gonna end up with health problems that are harder to get rid of than just a cold. 

Speaker 2: You're basically putting a debt on your body.

Mm-hmm. You're putting a debt on everything. By focusing on that now, it's not to say that you shouldn't put somewhat of a debt on, but you shouldn't ignore it either. 

Speaker: You should be careful about how much debt Yeah. You rack up on your body. 

Speaker 2: Exactly. Exactly. You can't say, well, screw it.

I'm not doing this.

Speaker: No, it doesn't intend to work that way. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2: That has some consequences too. Yeah. 

Speaker: I have had a body that hate, has hated me since birth, basically. I've had glasses since I was five and I've had psoriasis since I was five. Psoriasis actually longer than the glasses.

[00:47:00] Really? Because they finally figured, geared out my problem with high stepping when I went to kindergarten to get my, eyes and ears checked to see if I could go to school. And they were like, yeah, she needs glasses before she comes back here. And my mom's like, glasses. Is that what she needed?

Because military hospital. Yay. Military hospital. They did do spinal taps. Nobody thought to check my eyes,

When you have basically a preexisting from birth condition, you learn that there's only so much time that you can spend ignoring it. It's going to get really mad and really loud and very painful, and you have to come back to it.

So that debt for me is faster. I don't recommend it to anybody because you, if you do it long enough, hard enough and with enough whatevers, 'cause you have to have [00:48:00] kahunas to do it for longer than a couple weeks or months. It could end up killing you as the debt you've taken all the debt your body can handle and it could, make you no longer on this planet.

Speaker 2: It especially, yeah. For me it was sleepless nights. Just lack of sleep and it showed, it definitely, I had, I have my, someone from my wife's side, just looked at me, is like, wow, Alan, you're ugly. What happened here? Scary looking. But, it just showed and

it started manifesting itself with, with, elevated cholesterol. Right. So all of a sudden I have high cholesterol. Yeah. I was eating at gas stations, right? Mm-hmm. 

That was a wake up call. Be much more judicious in what you're eating. Be much more selective. I ironically, the stuff I was selling was like natural foods.

But they were snack foods, had to get a bite somewhere during COVID. It's only, junk food restaurants that were open. 

So that it started manifesting there and, and just snowballed. I mean, it was to the point [00:49:00] where, my blood test results showed I had neither any testosterone nor any estrogen.

Speaker: And what did that make you? 

Speaker 2: When you barely have the energy to drive yourself over to get a blood test. Yeah. That, that, that was a problem. So it was a lot of, just a lot of self care that you have to do afterwards. 

And as a result, I started, taking my care a lot more seriously.

I train, at least three times a week, weight train and all that stuff, eating right and everything because you, you have to take care of it, right? Otherwise, you're just gonna drop that and collapse. Yeah. That was an extreme and, mentally it definitely takes a toll on you,

Mentally, I'm not reliving those dark days. Okay. It's not happening. 

Speaker: So here is my PSA, if you are living with depression and the only thing you are eating is ramen, please remember that little packet is like 90% salt, and it will cause [00:50:00] a debt. 

If that's the only thing you're eating.

So that's 

Speaker 2: horrible. That's absolutely 

Speaker: horrible. 

Speaker 2: And speaking of depression, I was going to a doctor, it's one of those suburban doctors, that treats housewives and all that stuff. She asked three dumb questions to try to, prescribe antidepressants to you. And I said, no, I'm not going for that.

I am not going for that. Take depression a little bit. My PSA is just take it more seriously. Don't just, defer to one physician's. I can't call it a prognosis, just one physician's suggestion, because you have to kind of question their motives. It is three questions, really enough to determine whether you need an antidepressants and it could make things worse.

I think I've seen probably more people on the antidepressants. That are not cured versus the ones that are cured. 

Speaker: So most of the mental health medications, just so people don't get the wrong idea, are not meant to cure, they're to help you become at least a tiny bit [00:51:00] more normal.

Speaker 5: Yeah. 

Speaker: So for me, my emotions kind of go wherever they want to when I'm not on meds and I don't need to be doing that to people. I don't need to be crying. 'cause it's Tuesday, I don't know. Yeah. Sometimes it's stupid. You don't really know why. So yes, I am on something that kind of encapsulates them a little bit.

Speaker 5: Right. Perfectly 

Speaker: fine. And it's not off of one doctor's thing, it's off of it. It was a, I think it took a year and a half for me to get a diagnosis. So there was time. It took time and effort and people listening. So. No, the first person with that first, Zyrtec, not Zyrtec, whatever the z antidepressant is anyway.

Zoloft. 

Speaker 6: Is it Zoloft? Zoloft, 

Speaker: yeah. Yeah. I think that was my first antidepressant I was given. I was like, this isn't doing anything. Why are you giving me this? 

Speaker 2: I think about it was, I'm here at a doctor's appointment. It's not my annual physical. I'm here for an ailment. [00:52:00] And she would ask stuff like, she asked only three questions.

One, one of them being, have you done any fun in the last week? Okay. 

Speaker: Oh yeah. Okay. So the list, I terrify more nurses by being completely honest with that list than I have ever actually gotten any help because of that list. Because I don't care. I'm gonna be perfectly honest. I'm gonna tell you, I'll answer those questions.

And then the person leaves and the doctor comes in and they're like, you're seeing somebody for that, aren't you? And I'm like, yes. And they're like, okay, we don't have to do anything. No, you don't. You shouldn't be asking me anyway. 

Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, in my case, I'm just like, this is lunacy. Like, have I, and it's whether I've done anything fun last week or not, should not be the key determinant of if I need to.

No. 

Speaker: For any, the, the things that I've been given, the list is usually seven to 10 questions. One of them being have, are you seeing or hearing things that aren't there? Are [00:53:00] you, um, are you, um, do you want to take yourself off the planet? Yeah. Or do you want to take. Others off of the planet are, are included in the list.

And so, yeah. No, I tell them as soon as I'm ready for my, my, I love meat jacket, I will let somebody know, but it is not today. 

Speaker 5: Yeah. Which actually 

Speaker: made my doctor's office because they learned that I am being seen by a therapist and I'm doing the meds thing. They're like, okay, we're gonna stop asking you those questions.

I'm like, that's great. Now I don't have to terrify your nurses because they don't know what to do. 

Speaker 2: Well, they have their own weather. They do not hear 

Speaker: things. I do not see things that are not there. But, um, I, I do, I am actively passively wanting to take myself off of this planet, which means I won't actively do it like by myself, but if something were to happen, I wouldn't move out of the way either.[00:54:00] 

Speaker 2: Uh, I know I, I take a different view. I, I, my, I, it's not scientific at all, but you know, my view is, okay, should we all be onde depressants or antidepressants rather? Maybe the world has to change. Maybe the environment has to change around us. All right? 

Speaker: Mm-hmm. 

Speaker 2: All right. Yeah. And my 

Speaker: environment changing around me has changed a lot too.

So 

Speaker 2: yeah, there's that mean for the better Nikki. 

Speaker: Yes, for the better. Very much for the better. I have stepped out of some pretty bad situations and I'm in a very good situation now. I, um, I love the per, I love my friend that I'm living with, like, not like that, but um, yeah, like we're really good friends.

She helps me a lot. She is the epitome of calm. Have you ever like broken a plate and had your mom scream at you in like six different octaves? I have and it's actually more terrifying than the plate, the plate breaking. I broke something around Kim and she just kind of went. I hope you picked that [00:55:00] up.

Well, what just happened?

Why are you mad? Like, what is happening? Are you messing with me? Are you gonna yell at me later? What is happening? And she was like, no, it's fine. It was a mistake. You're great. And I'm just like, 

Speaker 2: you take it from what it is. I mean, what, what the plate come from? The Ming Dynasty. Did you inherit it from the Habsburg umpire?

Like what was this like? 

Speaker: I mean, it was something stupid. I can't remember what it was, but it wasn't anything of wealth. But yeah, it was, she was literally just, why would I be mad? I saw what you did. It wasn't on purpose. You're fine. Let, let's pick it up and I'll get you a bandaid for your leg. 'cause one of the shards had come up and hit my leg, so I was bleeding, but it was just like the complete opposite that I've ever had in my entire life with anybody.

Yeah. And so it was one of those moments that was like, oh, wait, I can be safe around you. 

Speaker 2: Wa [00:56:00] was your mom more like a control freak? 

Speaker: My mom was a narcissist who, uh, was medically neglectful. 

Speaker 2: Okay. Yeah. I I was just wondering if she tried to just control every little facet of life and breaking something was not on the agenda.

Speaker: Uh, you know, those Corning wear plates that like, don't break for nothing? 

Speaker 4: Right. 

Speaker: I was putting one of them suckers away above my head. I was putting it in, dude, I don't know what happened, but that thing exploded above my head. Like exploded. My dad was standing right next to me and he even, he went, what?

The, and my mom was 10 words deep before my ear stopped ringing from the explosion. So like, what? It is. It was, I, what did I do? They're supposed to be on brick wall. Yeah. Instead of 

Speaker 2: going, okay, I just paid for Gorilla Glass, it'll, it almost killed my daughter. You're 

Speaker: like, just break the, this thing just broke right above your head.

Is your [00:57:00] eyes okay? 

Speaker 2: Yeah. 

Speaker: Did you get anything in your eye? No. Okay, fine. Let's clean it up and we'll keep, my mom would scream and she would get these foams at the side of her mouth from her. And it was, at least in my teenage years, it was so hard to be in a fight with her and not just start laughing.

But I knew that was a stupid mistake to make. 'cause I'd done that once before.

Life has it shenanigans. If you are dealing with, wanting to take yourself or others off of this planet, I suggest that you go, if it's an emergency, go to the hospital. They will point you in the right direction for a nice three day stay, to help you get back on your feet. And, if you are on medications, please do not let anything we've said here today take you off of your medications because you don't know yet if they're actually needed.

That is a conversation between you and your meds doctor or your doctor, okay? So [00:58:00] just wanna get that PSA in there before. Can I say something about that? 

Speaker 2: Even though I'm not qualified, I do remember what I learned in, sociology class regarding, regarding suicide. And studies have indicated that usually those that commit suicide or attempt it are of the view that they're either trying to get away from something that they can't or trying to break into something that they can't.

All right? So keep that in mind. You're trying to get away from a lifestyle that looks, impossibly, like insurmountably, bleak, can't get away from it, so they off themselves.

Or it's the other way around. Right. Trying to get into a group that you'll never get into, for example.

If they are sort of contemplating it might pay to examine that, examine if it's truly the case that you're trying to get away from a life that you'll never get away from, because chances are that can't be right. That's impossible.

You could always change the environment around you. [00:59:00] 

Speaker: Yeah. I didn't talk to my mom for the year before her passing, her whole side of the family. I don't talk to them. I don't talk to two of my sisters. I have gotten rid of, at this point, the toxic people that I have been around throughout my life, and I did it.

You can too. 

Speaker 2: All right. And you became better as a result? Yeah, 

Speaker: I'm much more relaxed. I'm around people who actually love and care about me, and that has been doing, that's been great for me. 

Speaker 2: Yeah. Did you ever see yourself initially in a situation that you can't get out of? Yeah, there 

Speaker: were a lot of different situations that I thought, nothing.

This is the worst it's ever going to be. I'm never gonna be any better. This is the worst I'm ever going to be. It can't get any better. 

Speaker 2: And then you realize how you feel, and that's not a lot things around.

Speaker: Yeah. You just have to meet a new friend, talk to people. Sometimes we get so much in our head that we're not actually talking to anybody and just talking to [01:00:00] a, somebody we know of as a friend might help.

Because it lets all the cobwebs out when you actually talk to other people. So 

Speaker 2: yeah, it's true. It's a lot easier to change your environment than a lot of people think. They think that they're bound, by all these social ties or family ties and everything.

Mm-hmm. And it just weighs on them, right? 

I can tell 

Speaker: you that if you need to get away, walk 

Speaker 5: Yeah. 

Speaker: You don't even need a car or any of that other stuff. Walk, yeah. Go to a bus station, get a bus, pass somewhere, new state or whatever, and just do something that's gotta be better than where you were.

You be starting over? Yes. It's gonna be scary at first. But you won't have the people you had screaming in your ear that you're a dumb ass or an idiot, or whatever it is that they say to you. You'll have your own. I am deter, I am fixed and determined to make a great life for [01:01:00] myself and just keep going.

Get a job. Yeah. Keep moving and keep growing. 

Speaker 2: Yeah. Or not even, not even abusing you, but just weighing you down. I have the same thing. After my father died, 80% of the people like basically carved out of my life. After that, it just shed a lot of clarity.

It shed a lot of clarity that, these people, I'm around, they're here to take and, just take whatever I have to offer. Right. 

One of my 

Speaker: sisters. One of my sisters is a pathological liar. The other one will ask you to borrow 20 bucks this week and she'd give it back next week.

But first she has to take you to an ATM and then she needs gas money, and then she needs whatever she bought in the store paid for. And so by the time it's at an end, you actually spent like $40 on her. But she's only gonna give you that 20 back next week if it's next week. 

Speaker 2: Yeah. If only for 20. For me, yeah.

For me, the bank of, Alan is completely closed. Yeah. [01:02:00] Completely. Yeah. Go to a bank, go do whatever you gotta do. And if it means, not being friends anymore, so be it. 

Speaker: Yeah. Also, my sister that likes to take money is she was also the golden child. She was the one my mom like doted on and loved up on and stuff, and she was just as far up my mom's butt as you could be and still be a human being.

And, so when my mom died, she went nuts with the, you can't talk bad about her, she's dead. I went, yeah, show's Hitler leave me outta this. I could talk about bad about anybody I need to talk bad about. As none of your business type thing. And she ended up blocking, she disowned me and my sister and blocked us both.

And then tried to come back a year later and just be like, people you may know, no thank you. I have blocked six of her accounts. Now you disowned me. Why do I have to talk to you? 

Speaker 2: Do you have any reason? Do you know why [01:03:00] she tried to reestablish connection with you? Well, because 

Speaker: that's what she does.

She'll stop talking to you for a while, and then she wants to slide back in because she needs money again, or she needs whatever again. And I don't have that for her anymore. 

Speaker 2: All right. For me, I have, it's more comical. It's more like with my wife and her sister. 'cause one's a millennial, the other's a younger millennial and millennials like to cancel each other.

So all of a sudden you say something, you say the wrong word, you say the wrong line. That's it. You're canceled. 

Speaker: No, my, that sister is my older sister and she is, the Gen X. 

Speaker 6: Yeah. 

Speaker: I'm just barely on the line. 

Speaker 6: Yeah. April of 81. So like, 

Speaker: I'm like right there. 

Speaker 2: Yeah. But yeah, for me it was just, it was just too much.

I mean, especially when you think about it, as soon as they found out, okay, I have a law degree, I practice law. Lawyers charge a lot of money. I mean, that's it. It was just nothing. But take, take, take. 

Well, how about asking, okay, Alan, how are you feeling about, after the funeral?

How about [01:04:00] attending the funeral? How about acknowledging that there was a funeral? All right. Yeah. 

Speaker: That doesn't happen. 

Speaker 2: Yeah. And, at some point you just need to, you're better off. You're much more productive just carving them out of your life and moving on.

And, back to the point about suicide, it is that easy. It is. It is that easy just to pick up and walk away, 

Speaker 3: right?

Speaker 2: I mean, how many domestic abuse survivors have you heard of that just walked away with nothing but the clothes on their back? 

And yeah, it'll be tough.

It'll be a struggle, but it'll eventually work. 

Speaker: And if you're in a DV situation, I believe you can go to pretty much any hospital or the police station, and they will put you in a domestic violence shelter, which means that there is no contact from the outside world. And he can't get in or she can't get in, depending on that.

And that way, you can try to move on without that on your back. 

Speaker 4: Yeah. So sometimes it works, sometimes, well, most of the time I guess it works, [01:05:00] but yeah, because it's 

Speaker: actually like the first six months after somebody leaves a DV situation that they're most likely to be involved in a violent situation from that person finding them again.

So being in a shelter that doesn't allow that person to come anywhere near, and then most of those shelters will take you to a different state, or send you to a different state, to pick up the pieces. 

Speaker 2: Yeah. But the point is you can change your life around, right? If there's a situation you're in, you can step away from it.

If there's a situation you try to get into, I feel like it's hopeless. Well, that's a different story. It depends what the situation. Change 

Speaker: your goal, maybe change your goal. You have to work on yourself more before the, you can do that thing. Or maybe it's that you have to be realistic and you're not an Olympic swimmer.

Speaker 2: Exactly. 

Like, if it's, only a handful of people on the planet earn one. 

If that's, what's driving you to suicide change your goal. 

So it is just the way it is. [01:06:00] But popping pills and all that stuff, I'm so against it.

I don't know. I think there's too much abuse of that happening, try to work it out with your own lifestyle before you decide to take that kind of shortcut. It might work, it just might work,

Speaker: but if you're currently on meds, don't touch anything without talking to somebody.

'cause some of the side effects and things that can happen if you go off of a drug, abruptly, will not help your situation. That's the only reason why I'm saying that. Like, if you're on meds, keep taking your meds until you talk to somebody about them and see what you can step down on or whatever.

Speaker 2: Yeah. What would you say to people that kind of lost faith in their doctors? Would you advise? It is 

Speaker: so easy to get a different doctor. 

But at the same time, why have you lost faith? Is it because they haven't diagnosed you with anything? Dude, I've had a headache since 2019. Two weeks ago it decided to become a migraine, and so I've had a migraine every day for the last two weeks instead of just a headache, which.[01:07:00] 

Absolutely sucks and no, it has not been fully diagnosed. The medicine they have me on makes me lose words. It sucks. I would like to go off of it, but when I did that, my head pain got worse. So I'm back on it. Obviously. I am waiting to see a neurologist, but if you have a situation where you have to wait time until you can get to the specialist, there's literally nothing anybody can do.

Having faith in your doctor at that point isn't a thing. My doctor is fine, but she's also not the one that needs to deal with any of this. The neurologist does because they are the people who know about heads better than just a general physician. 

Speaker 5: Right. 

Speaker: If it's because your doctor is a guy and you're a female and you would rather see a female doctor walk your happy butt up to the front desk of your doctor's office and say, Hey, I'm not comfortable with a dude.

Can I have a female that goes for. Therapists, doctors, it [01:08:00] doesn't matter. I have a couple of male doctors, actually, let me rephrase that. I have one male doctor that's my rheumatologist. He has never had to touch me in his life, so he gets to keep being my rheumatologist and we're fine. But if you feel more comfortable with a dude instead of a female again, so there are many ways you can be unhappy with your doctor and it's all about trying to figure out a solution.

I think there's just so many different solutions for whatever the different problem is that should not be part of the reason you are thinking of leaving the planet. 

Speaker 2: Yeah, and probably make an attempt to get several opinions. Get three opinions. See if that makes sense. Try to, if your insured 

Speaker: will allow it.

Otherwise paying for some things is expensive, but 

Speaker 2: yeah, perhaps, yeah. But it's still always best to, scrutinize your doctor a little bit, see if what they're telling you makes sense. See if it makes practical sense for [01:09:00] you. Have 'em explain things a little bit better, 

Speaker: completely. If your problem is that your doctor talks in language that is for doctors and not for you tell him he needs to bring a nurse in with him, that can translate. 

Speaker 3: Yeah. And I've done 

Speaker: it before because the doctor was just like, I have a college level reading and comprehension. I can comprehend a lot when you get too far into the textbooks for medical 'cause I've never done that.

I start to lose you. And so I've literally had to have his nurse like, can you just translate into like plain English, whatever the crap it is he just said, 

Speaker 2: I sent my wife to, the head of neurology right in, in Dallas. You should see this guy. He looks like Jack Black.

He talks in Jack Black 

Speaker 3: neurologist. That's all we need.

Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. Yeah. This guy, he's very mellow and talks in plain English. And he's the chair of that department. He gets millions and grants. He's a very smart guy, but he knows how to conduct himself.

He knows how to talk to patients to ease [01:10:00] them. Yeah. Right. My 

Speaker: rheumatologist is the same way. 

Speaker 2: Exactly. He comes in all disheveled with a loose tie and, very entertaining person. But, by the same token, very knowledgeable, very smart. I wouldn't trade him in for the world, but he knows how to put things into plain English.

And, when you email him, when he responds to his email, of course he's gonna respond very intelligently. He's not gonna be all like, like Jack Black, and all that, but he'll answer questions. He won't be, if your doctor's already talking to you in the condescending tone, just to, get you away from them, that's sort of like a red flag, right?

Have it, it's their job to explain things to you so you can make an informed decision, that's just the nature of it. Now, if you have a doctor that is not even making eye contact with you, they're focusing much more on their real estate portfolio than on you.

Yeah. It's time to seek health elsewhere. Yeah. Because you have to,

Speaker: doctor's office has like 10 doctors in it, so you can just switch to a different one. And if you're in one of those doctor's offices and you've switched a new one, but you're getting the same [01:11:00] treatment, go to a different doctor's office.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Also, I wanna mention, there's nothing wrong with a pa. They are no knowledgeable and caring. I see a pa they are so knowledgeable in what they do. 

Speaker: Yeah. I see. The pa I don't see the actual, I think there's four doctor doctors, but the rest of 'em are PAs. I just call them doctors because it's the same thing.

I'm going to the doctor's office. 

Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. So , if it's something routine and they know they can handle it. They handle it. If not, they refer you elsewhere. 

But they kind of tell it to you how it is and, it just because they're PAs doesn't make 'em less of a medical professional, really.

I've been a lot more impressed with PAs lately than, with regular doctors. Some of 'em have completely disappointed me. Like some of them, I just like, I can't even explain to them anything. They don't wanna hear anything. 

It's like you go to a doctor and like, if your weight fluctuates by 20 to 30 pounds a month, that, that sends off a signal.

Right. That don't applaud me if I lost 20 pounds in a month. Okay. There's something, were 

Speaker: you, the thing is somebody should be [01:12:00] saying, were you trying to lose weight and are you eating? 

Speaker 2: Yeah. 

That wasn't asked. Okay. That was more like, like that doctor pushed more of the, just selling antidepressants than anything else.

Speaker: Yeah, no, I don't like those. I also don't like the ones 'cause I am a larger person and they're like, oh, well if you just lose weight, your problems would be completely different. Dude, when my headache started in 2019, I weighed 190 pounds. I am not that anymore, but I am losing weight again. But the headache is still here.

So obviously my weight had nothing to do with it. 

Speaker 2: Right. And all right, so you need to see a neurologist. Yes. And don't go straight to a surgeon 'cause they love to cut. 

Speaker: No, I am terrified that I have a brain tumor though, because my mom had one of them. And as this keeps getting bigger, like the pain keeps getting bigger, I'm just like, I have a brain tumor.

It's growing. [01:13:00] That's why the pain's getting bigger and I don't have an MRI to, you know. 

Speaker 2: Yeah. 

Speaker: Take me down out of the clouds. So that's being a thing. I mean, 

Speaker 2: That's a major life changing step, don't just go gungho over a surgeon. 

Speaker: No. 

Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. Because some of 'em have, primarily a surgery background.

They do consulting. They're gonna lean towards surgery.

Speaker: This is my brain. We are not going No, I know how you did the surgery on my mom. You're not doing that to my head. Thank you very much. 

Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. So she came outta, she's a great doctor that you're compatible with. 

Speaker: Yeah. She came outta surgery looking like somebody punched her in the eyes.

Speaker 2: Alright, Nikki. Well, you have a great day 

nikkis-lounge-2025-05-291901 Allen
===

Speaker 2: [00:00:00] Alan Kaplan, I run an eight figure e-commerce business that's also focused on food distribution. And I'm in the process of launching a systematic, fully automated trading fund that deals in, futures. 

Speaker: So on the business side, how have you gotten there? Because you didn't just wake up one day and ta-da, all those things were ready to go. 

Speaker 2: So I gotta take you back to around 2012 or so. I was working about 80 hour weeks and living in the New York City area, commuting. My day was very monotonous, routine, and it just started with me hopping on a bus going across the river.

I lived in New Jersey, if you're familiar with it, but, lived in New Jersey, went from a courthouse to an office. I practiced law at the time, and back to [00:01:00] Jersey, back to another office. Rinse, repeat every day. And, it on its face, it's fine, right? So you have a regular job and you're making somewhat okay money.

But you're also, it's a massive struggle. You're doing a lot of hours, heavy workload. I mean, there's just, a lot of pressure building up behind the scenes. So, I just said to myself, look, I gotta find something else. And I started experimenting. One thing I started experimenting with was, e-commerce.

I've done that before when I was in college years ago. And, I went to my wife and I said, look, let's try this out. She just recently got our MBA and we started looking up suppliers. We just started opening accounts with all sorts of suppliers, getting our hands on anything we could to try to make a business out of it.

And, eventually you amass enough suppliers. Eventually something's gotta give, right? So you narrow it down and you [00:02:00] find what categories you're targeting or not so much targeting. What categories are working for you? And we started just, simply drop shipping, sending orders to these suppliers, listing them online and building it up from there at the time.

In addition to the 80 hours that I was doing, I also added this to my plate. So don't ask me if I have any hobbies. I don't, not at that time Anyway. So in addition to those 80 hours a week, we added this was our side hustle slash hobby slash additional source of income.

And eventually, it started taking off, it started picking up some traction, and it got to the point where, we both had to unwind our day jobs. So I had, actually two offices, a front office in the back office that I was, working at and I had to unwind them both and that, that took some time.

And we had a focus on the, really, the few categories that worked for us. And one of 'em was, mainly groceries. So [00:03:00] in a sense, we were one of the first pioneers in, e gry. And at that time it was almost unheard of, right? Groceries getting shipped directly to your door. Now it, it's a common thing, but going back all those years, it just wasn't done.

So we focused on that and I started analyzing some data, looking at where we're shipping to what's gonna make the most sense, and, how do we optimize this best? Well, the data led me to, concluding that we have to move out of the northeast. We have to optimize better. We need, better logistics going on.

'cause it turned into. It turned into a business where we went from just drop shipping it to getting comfortable with stocking it. And it went from, just placing orders to your suppliers from your apartment to, getting a storage unit to storing stuff in my office. And e eventually, you're stocking inventory, getting better pricing, getting more momentum and velocity going.

And so the data led us to Texas where we just picked [00:04:00] up, moved halfway across the country, on a pretty short notice, just a few months notice. And the blocker there was, just wrapping up the law practice, wrapping up all these loose ends that we had to do before we finally made that move.

And eventually you just graduate to different levels. So by the time we were in Texas, we had to graduate to working with, a third party logistics center, which is basically just a fulfillment center. Where you set up the inventory, it wasn't very big. It was, about 20,000 square feet or so. And it actually had some grown, well, it had some challenges and had to downsize.

So e eventually I ended up with my own warehouse about a 10,000 square foot warehouse that I signed a lease on. I knew nothing about warehousing. And it showed, it definitely showed, okay. I did not instill any confidence in the staff whatsoever, but it had to be done. Okay. So [00:05:00] here we have this white collar guy, just his entire, smarts came for whatever he learned in school and everything like that.

And here we are with the warehousing staff and, they're pretty street smart. They can sense when you don't have confidence, they can sense when you don't know what you're doing. And one of the, one of the pivotal things that we did was, we were allowed to, because the fulfillment center over there was going through its own struggles.

We were allowed to hire away the warehouse manager there. Okay. And we were one of the major accounts. So the transition wasn't too difficult. Okay. But it was one of those things that we had to do, and we took it from there and we started innovating. We started figuring out how to ship out glass, how to ship out chocolate in the middle of summer.

And, that was a challenge I didn't see coming because, I mean, Nikki, if you've ever visited Texas, it is hot here. It is beyond hot. Okay. 

Speaker: I lived in. Fort Worth for two years. And I can tell you I did not go [00:06:00] outside in the summer. 

Speaker 2: Yeah. So here we are, we're figuring out how to ship chocolate in the summer.

We knew it could be done, or at least I was pretty confident it could be done. Question was how do you engineer that? And when you do that, you're capturing a lot of market share. 'cause what does e-comm do? E-comm does not ship multiples in the summer. So we were able to do that and eventually it just, it grew, bigger and bigger as we started optimizing more, a warehouse in Texas, extended into another warehouse in Pennsylvania.

That was around 2017 the following year. Then we launched in California and Los Angeles because that was strategically important for us. And then the warehouse in Pennsylvania. Grew from just under 10,000 square feet to 30. And that's actually our main facility right now. Long story short, I ended up with warehouses on the East coast and West coast.

Integrated the Dallas Fort Worth warehouse that [00:07:00] we had, the Dallas Fort Worth area warehouse that we have. It was actually in Denton, integrated that into Pennsylvania. And here I am operating remotely from Texas and we're running these warehouses, we're running warehouses on the east coast and west coast.

So that was, those were the good times. There were obviously a lot of pains and struggles and I dunno if you want me to get into that now, but there, there was, I mean there were some serious, challenges there. All right. And a lot of learning I had to do and, figure stuff out, figure out, what is my leadership style?

How are we going about fixing problems? It just doesn't happen on its own. So that's it in a nutshell. On the e-commerce side, we did not grow into an eight figure business overnight. It just doesn't happen. But within a few months, it did become a six figure business.

When we moved to Texas, it was a seven figure business, low seven figures, I think about 1.2 million or so. Is what we [00:08:00] were doing in sales. Eventually, you just grow into that kind of level at, as you work out your supplier relationships, work out your logistics and operations and finance and everything like that.

Speaker: So my important question, and I think this is gonna lead us into the mental health stuff, maybe a little early, but, what happened during COVID? 

Speaker 2: Oh, well, what happened during COVID? Was, we were in a situation where, and everybody was in this situation. Every business had this challenge. You were not allowed to work as an employee.

You were ordered to stay home, yet you want your product, you want your stuff. And a business that was essential to operating during COVID was allowed to stay open, as long as they provide all those protections. So, during COVID was one challenge. There were other challenges pre COVID, just right before COVID.

But during COVID, we [00:09:00] basically, I mean for me, it was just completely no sleep. I was living a corrupted wish at that time for the employees. They had challenges in figuring out, well, where are they gonna get a sitter?

Daycare centers are closed.

If you're dropping off, your kid to the YMCA for childcare, well, that's close too. They relied on their churches. That's closed. Everything was closed, yet everybody wanted their stuff at the same time. So we had to figure a lot of stuff out during COVID and one of, in observing a lot of the staff and cycling through everyone, unfortunately.

One of the things that I saw was there was a lot of anxiety, and it's not the type of anxiety where, they're just anxious every day. But the anxiety was at the commitment level that I noticed when an employer tells the employee, you must work 40 hours a week, this is your shift.

And then they're juggling around their schedule. And it creates sort of like a self-fulfilled prophecy for them where they just drop the ball, [00:10:00] they can't commit to it, and they have to drop out or they disappoint and maybe they get fired. In cycling through all these employees, one thing that occurred to me was, alright, we're gonna run out of employees.

Alright. Our reputation already took ahead 'cause we're looked at as monsters, but we have stuff to do. We have targets to meet and we need to figure out what to do here. And one thing that I came up with, which boggled, a HR had a field day with me 'cause they didn't even know how to fill out the forms after this policy was announced.

Supervisors had a field day with me, but, one thing that I introduced into that program was a flex time program. Alright. Because I had to ask myself, alright, I don't particularly like working in the warehouse. Nobody wakes up and says, I wanna work in the, at a warehouse when I grow up, right?

Not realistic. And frankly, nobody really likes their job. I don't know. What percentage of people do you think actually like the job they go to? It's gotta be north of 90% [00:11:00] probably. 

So one thing that we created was what's called a flex time program where if you work at least four hours in any, given day, you make up your own schedule.

Alright? You make up your own schedule there. There's some give and take there in terms of benefits and everything, but you make up your own schedule and. The pressure is off. Okay? You don't have to work, you don't have to meet your 40 hours. You're not gonna get fired if you don't work 40 hours.

You can come in and schedule yourself in for four hours. Alright? The burden is of course, on hr, but that's their job, right? Their job is not to have pizza parties. Those are stupid, all right? We're dealing with adults, right? Their job is not to have fun little newsletters and be out of touch with the needs of the staff.

So in observing them one thing I rolled out, was a flex Time program where we keep basically a Rolodex of people. That we can call in or they can schedule [00:12:00] themselves in, and they would be, working their shifts and we'd allocate, based on their, competencies, we'd find them something to do.

We'd find them, either they're working inventory fulfillment or, receiving something like that. Something along those lines. So, long story short, once the pressure was off, once that burden was off, once, they didn't have to make all these excuses with the typical family emergency nonsense, what we noticed was they didn't work exactly 40 hours, but close enough, 35, 38 hours, all right?

And they became productive. And then they start asking, well, what do I have to do for a raise? I wanna get out of the flex time program. I wanna get into full-time, or I wanna get into part-time. And then we set the parameters. We give them a roadmap for more raises and more benefits.

And, set the threshold for them to be more productive. So we went from massive turnover in mandating the traditional 40 hour shift to saying, alright, it's flex time for you guys. You [00:13:00] make up your own hours, you call the shots here. And it naturally evolved into this kind of system where they're taking it upon themselves to make this commitment, right?

And their coworkers, instead of, trying to figure out ways how to sneak out of work, they're just, very upfront about it. I'm off tomorrow. I need off tomorrow. Alright. They're much more secure. They're much more confident in what they're doing. It created a much more, productive environment as a result.

Speaker: I think you learned something that some people forgot to learn. Everybody learned during COVID, or at least a lot of businesses learned during COVID, that if their people were at home doing the work at home, the work was getting done faster, cleaner, whatever, and then they're all after COVID O's done.

They're all like, no, you have to come back to the office. We know you hate it here. We know you're gonna not work as much and it's not gonna be as clean, but you have [00:14:00] to come back to the office. 

Speaker 2: Well, it's a question of why, right? So what I learned about myself is I adopt a first principles approach into my management style.

So it's a question of why is it because the owners have a lease to pay? Is it because, we have to fill up the office space or is it more than that? And we had other departments. So for example, I had, an office in Century City. It was a content team and the secret sauce for this content team was they have to get together for pitch day on, on a Monday, right.

First day of the week and pitch ideas, and that required them to be together. It was a little bit difficult with c and, that team unfortunately collapsed as a result that they just weren't able to, bring in that kind of energy, and pitch the way they needed to pitch as a result, on those Mondays.

But, just to mandate, you're coming back to the office. Well, why? What is the KPI, what exactly dropped off is the [00:15:00] question. I'm not advocating for everyone staying remote, but 

you have to pick and choose the reasoning for it. 

We have plenty of remote people, analysts and so forth. It would be, to put them in an office would actually be a burden on me at this point. HR for example, offsite, we had HR in the office. They're easily corruptible, easily interfere with people. My people, anyway, we take 'em offsite, write an email, send a slack message, do anything you want.

Just do not come in the office. Do not appear in the operation. Alright? 

Speaker: Yeah. No. My sister's company, which I don't know what they do 'cause it's none of my business, but, all of their KPI said that the people were working better at home and they brought them all back to the office. 

Speaker 2: Okay.

Why did they do that? Any idea? 

Speaker: No, my sister still doesn't know, and it still pisses her off. All I have to go, all I have to do is say, how was your day today? I had to go in today. So 

Speaker 2: [00:16:00] yeah, I never, we have software developers. I've never needed software developers in the same room. But at the same time, I found it very unproductive that they're just communicating through project management boards.

And instead, my attitude towards that was like, look, all of you speak English, right? Here's slack. Write each other a message. Don't just, go into submitting tickets and waiting four hours for a response. 

So, yeah, it's because that could be done more so now on Slack than before.

You don't have to send an invite, right? You don't have to send an invite for a Zoom call. Here you go Slack huddle, calling a meeting on five minutes notice. All right. It really just depends on the reasoning. I obviously, look, if you're manufacturing, people need to come to the factory.

You're not gonna build a jet, working out the office, right? 

Speaker: No. And true to point, I see a therapist, and I hated seeing a therapist over Zoom. Technically it wasn't Zoom, it was whatever their thing is, but it's just like Zoom, so [00:17:00] whatever. But, I hated seeing a therapist over Zoom.

Like, you don't get the same, I don't know, whatever. So I love being able to go back into the office, like the same 

Speaker 2: connection, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. 

Speaker: But at the same time, there are pla like an assistant of any kind, probably doesn't need to be in the office. I say probably because there are a few things that.

Maybe they have to be, but I technically, I am not a va, but I do some of the things that a VA would, working together with the people that I work with, and no, I don't ever have to be in person with them. We have meetings, we talk, we communicate. Open communication helps in some of those places where it's a bit weirder, 

Speaker 2: but yeah.

So why bring big people into the office when the KPIs are indicating, it's either [00:18:00] just as good if they're remote. And look, I'm a proponent of first principles analysis. All right? Look to what the common truths are, remove the assumptions and build the system from there. If you're just doing it to fill space, 'cause you have five years to go in your lease or something like that.

Why are you doing this? Sublet it out. All right? 

Speaker: And your people will be happier because Yeah, they're doing what they want. I mean, they're still working, but they're at home so they feel more comfortable.

Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, look, picture something, someone coming out of la I lived in LA for a few years and we have a warehouse there and look, traffic is horrendous, all right? Gas is five bucks a gallon, $6 at times. And I remember, I rented, just for interviewing, I took, it wasn't a WeWork, it was one of those, but I rented a conference room and my warehouse was 15 miles away.

It took me, to monitor the traffic patterns to see when I'm gonna finally pay [00:19:00] my onsite visit there, and I deferred it for two days because of the traffic I. When I finally got there, I timed myself. It took me one hour on the, on that highway to travel 15 miles. I literally drove 15 miles an hour, alright, on average.

And I was not in a slow car. I was in a, I think I was in a sports car at that time, but, it wasn't me, it was traffic. But, if you're in a densely populated area like that, you have to take into that account, this commute that you have people, driving to, the burden that they have to exert on themselves just to get to work and leave.

That all has consequences to it, right? You have to really examine whether it's worth it. Are you better off now that we have a road environment and technology got better, is it worth it? Right? 

Speaker: And my sister does not live in the middle of the country.

She doesn't live in Texas or California. She lives where you left because of She is up there in the, in northeast. 

Speaker 2: Oh, she lives in Northeast. [00:20:00] Yeah. Yeah. So she lives in the New York area somewhere. 

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Because everybody, I would imagine even the top senior level executives are taking that into account.

I hope so. Because, I remember my commute just going from downtown, New York City to Midtown. I'm sitting there with a calculator on the subway going, I'm wasting about two weeks of my life just on this little commute per year. That's vacation. That's 80 hours a week.

I'm wasting. Yeah. 

Yeah. So it's just one of those things, it just requires analysis. It's not a yes or a no. It's a, let's go over these facts, okay? Are we better off, are we more competitive with people working remote or hybrid situation or, is it all hands on deck, everyone to the office?

It just depends. It really just depends. 

Yeah, but , the COVID times were something, pre COVID that was a different phase, and, that was a phase [00:21:00] where everything nearly collapsed, I almost had to shut my doors down on that one, because all the processes broke down.

And, as a result, I spent the entire summer of 2019 fixing everything. I actually slept in the office of my own warehouse for about three weeks. Just making it happen. Yeah. That was something. And by the time everything got fixed by Labor Day three months later, or, well, I guess about six months later, COVID broke out and, we were on the stay at home order.

Here we are, the Flex Time program is going quite strong. We actually, I borrowed it from the restaurant model. If, a lot of restaurants, especially in densely populated areas, you might have, a very small restaurant with a huge roster of servers to call on to fill in.

So we kind of borrowed it from there. But the ironic result of that was these flex timers behaved as though they were full-time. Many of 'em made it to full-time status. And we didn't have to leverage our Rolodex to call people in. We don't [00:22:00] have that kind of chaos that I expected.

We have the opposite result. And it's really just taking it's the mindset's just taking off the pressure

Speaker: lot of places for me, I have worked my own business for what I feel like is forever, but I do remember when I had a regular job, like working at Walmart or working as a line cook.

A lot of times people will say, well, if you can't come in for the whole eight hours, then you have to call out. If you're trying to leave early, you're not dependable or whatever. Right. 

Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, that's, I guess that's maybe like a more of an authoritarian style, of leadership. But,

I have to observe the behavior, right? Because there are only so many people in Lebanon, Pennsylvania, that's the culture you're dealing with, right? And, chances are if they signed up for their job and they started coming in, they're coming in good faith.

[00:23:00] And you kind of, for me, I'd rather build a system around that, right? So, and I see a lot of middle managers, and I had middle managers before that, their attitude, at least when it came to explaining stuff to me was, oh, they're all lazy. Everyone's lazy. 

Speaker: I hate that excuse so much.

Speaker 2: And yeah, as a matter of fact, I let go of middle managers. I promoted, employees to supervisory levels. And then promoted them from there. So I don't even hire from the outside anymore. I've really, if I can avoid it, I don't do that. And that's really why, 'cause it, when they tell you, look, you have to make eight hours a day, or, if you don't come in tomorrow, don't come in at all.

What are they really doing Right. Or are they making their lives easier? Or, do you think they're giving the analysis to the higher ups and saying, we have this kind of pain point, we need to figure something out? No, they don't. They're, just say, okay, well these employees are not coming in.

They're all lazy. Fire them, rehire them. It is just very nearsighted kind of thinking, because [00:24:00] you have to kind of observe the culture. We had a different culture in Pennsylvania. It's not la it's not Texas. And we had to build around that. So, yeah. It's one of those things,

and I, I assume it, it was your, it was the middle manager putting all that pressure on you to come in and all that stuff. 

Speaker: Oh, yeah. At Walmart, it was the one who didn't like me because she was a manager in training when I got hired, and she was the sixth person to come over and try to teach me how to do something.

And I was just kind of, you know what? I have been told how to do this already. Please leave me alone. She did not appreciate that very much, but good gravy, like one or one person. You, one person teach me how to do something and I will be fine. I don't need everybody in here telling me how to do it their way.

Especially since the one who was just about to try to teach me was left-handed, and I'm not, because she'd have messed up my brain to high heaven until. 

Speaker 2: She taught you the left-handed approach to do. She was 

Speaker: [00:25:00] about to, she was like, she turned the stupid little machine around that you use to take the film out of the cartridge.

And I'm just like, no, no, I refuse. I'm not doing this. Yeah, 

Speaker 2: right. So, 

Speaker: yeah, so she later, like a couple months later, became the manager, and that was a wonderful experience. P just survives.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Lately I heard like companies like Walmart, they would offer you a top rate based on a condition that you perform, and the threshold is, practically insurmountable, right? So for example, like a pick rate, they would say, all right, you'll get $31 an hour, which is their top rate.

Assuming you have a hundred percent pick rate for everything, well, all right. If that works and enough people [00:26:00] achieve that target rate, well guess what they're gonna do, right? 

Speaker: Yeah. 

Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. 

Speaker: Yeah. I worked in the photo lab, obviously since I was picking film, but, my manager decided that the way she was gonna get me to leave was to start scheduling me for like 15 hours a week.

I walked up to the store manager and I went, I was hired as full-time. She's trying to give me part-time hours, please fix it. And he walked over to her and said, you can't do that. 

If she was hired as full-time, you have to give her full-time hours. And I was, because that was the agreement I had with the lady who hired me.

The manager. 

Speaker 2: Yeah. We had an employee. The manager tried, getting rid of this individual. The tactic he used was to rotate them into different departments and just fail them on every evaluation and eventually terminate them. Now he was confronted the [00:27:00] individual, made, the employee scheduled, office hours with him and said, I know what you're trying to do to me,

Speaker: I don't like drama in my life. But if you have drama and you wanted to share it with me, let's go. I'll listen 

Speaker 2: I'm the owner of the business. I'm the one taking, cutting the checks and you have a middle manager who I'm also paying deliberately rotating someone that I'm also paying, that's also gonna either underperform or fail.

And I'm paying for the whole circus that he created.

Speaker: Yep. That's why I say, so Walmart supposedly has a thing where if you are a manager in training at one store, you're not allowed to become the manager of that store. They're supposed to ship you off to a different store. 

Speaker 3: Okay. Well, she 

Speaker: had buddy buddy privileges with somebody and got hired at our store and I [00:28:00] literally heard her, I have bat ears, nobody thinks I do, but whatever.

But I literally heard her talking to somebody else and was like, I'll probably have her gone in the next six months. And that was me. So 

Speaker 2: yeah, those are the 

Speaker: people you don't wanna work for. Those are the people you don't wanna talk to. 

Speaker 2: But those are the people that end up in middle management and yes, it becomes, it becomes, office politics at that point.

Right. Where they're not working toward achieving targets. Look, I'm sure the actual owners of Walmart, like the Sam Walton his family and all those which 

Speaker: I am not one of, even with my last name. Okay. I am not one of them. Walden. 

Speaker 2: Right. Did they ask you when you, signed up to My last name 

Speaker: is Walton.

Speaker 2: Know during the Walmart interview, did they ask you, are you related? 

Speaker: Actually, they did. 

He have asked me any? Anytime. Yeah. I, yeah, I got asked that when I went for an eye appointment. So you shoulda have said, 

Speaker 2: I'm with corporate. Don't tell anyone I stopped 

Speaker: me getting fired the way I got [00:29:00] fired.

Speaker 2: But Yeah. But do you really think the owner do you think they say, they're saying, okay, we're gonna mess around with Nikki for six months, then let her go. They're looking at top line, bottom line, but they're looking at making things work. It's my, I have a problem with middle managers.

I gotta be very frank, I've come into so many where they kind of, piggyback off of their underlings or coworkers and they just earn these positions that they don't deserve. 

Right? So, and I caught onto that. Whether it was quick or not, I don't know.

But the practice that I'm using right now is high. Just promote from within, avoid middle managers if you can avoid them. 'cause they're coming in with their own agenda, right? 

They're here to make their life easier. They're not here to, boost profits. They're not here to, I mean, what are they here for?

Right? They're here to make sure that they get their raises. Even if it means throwing a lot of others under the bus, even if it means, a company suffering losses. And I'm not for that. 

Speaker: Yeah, so good news. Yeah, because it is [00:30:00] joyful news to me. Anyway, that lady lasted a year as a manager. 

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Speaker: Then she got moved to the, either the vision center, I think it's the vision. She got moved to the vision center and then she was, let go. 

Speaker 2: Yeah. Because she wasn't performing. It comes out, 

Speaker: the truth comes 

Speaker 2: out, right? 

Yeah. So I actually had to let go of a marketing manager, because it became just so apparent that she's relying on underlings and I mean, like, what?

Two, three months in, I spoke to other CMOs and they're like, wow, at least she's didn't string you along for 18 months. I'm like, it's because I've been through that type, through, through that kind of process with middle managers. Unfortunately, like to me, they know the right words to say.

They know what to put down on the resume. They know how to answer a questionnaire. And they get their job. 

And that's unfortunately, a part of the process is, really being a hawk on them. And I asked the subordinates that report to her, I'll tell 'em, look, report anything that's out of the [00:31:00] ordinary.

Okay. 'cause she's supposed to be performing all. And what was out of the ordinary was she wasn't familiar with many e-commerce policies. She wasn't familiar with, just general processes at all. You know, just relying on the, just the underlings and, trying to collect a six figure check as a result.

And that's just unfair. 

Speaker: Yeah, no, I'm not letting you steal my work. If I know the policies and procedures, I know them, but so should you if you are my manager. 

Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, if a manager tells you, okay, Nikki, so what do you do here? Oh, yeah, okay. Yeah, I knew that.

Oh yeah. Well just carry on with the rest of your day. 

Speaker: Thank you.

No, people usually know me and they can name me pretty quickly. I am a little bit loud, so people usually get to know me, not in a bad way. I'm just, why does he have a podcast? It forced people to listen to me. No, I [00:32:00] just, I say the thing, not always the only thing on my mind, but I tend to.

Oh wait, you wanna come teach me how to do this? You're the sixth person who's done it. You're left-handed. Can you please not? 'cause you're gonna blow my brain apart. 

Speaker 2: So what would you tell the Walton family? Alright. If you had some airtime with them, what would you tell them?

Speaker: Please choose a different last name. 

Speaker 2: No. You know exactly what I mean. 

Speaker: I know. Just make sure when you have a policy that says you can't be a manager at the same store you were, in training at, make sure it's being fulfilled because that's how I got screwed. She didn't like me because when I was in training, I didn't allow her to teach me how to do a left hand thing when I'm right-handed.

Speaker 2: Yeah. But it makes sense, right? It makes sense for someone to transfer to another location. Because you don't want them [00:33:00] exacting re retribution on coworkers getting even with someone that 

Speaker: Yes, because not only did I get written up, because like I said, I'm loud, so customers heard me telling her to please go away, but she yelled at me like she blew her top, yelled at me.

I didn't even know who she was. Okay. But she got written up as well, so yes, she had a vengeance out for me, and that's how I got fired. 

Speaker 6: Yeah. Yeah. It's unfortunate. It's unfortunate. Well, 

Speaker: okay, so what can you do? In some situations in life, there is absolutely nothing you can do, but walk away.

Did I walk away gracefully or did I walk away mad? I can tell you I walked away mad because I should not have been fired. 

Speaker 2: Well, she shouldn't have been there in the first place. Right? So. Exactly, so he shouldn't 

Speaker: have been fired. And the customer themselves came out of the building and were like, the husband turned to the wife and was like, are you happy now?

And she was like, yeah, I believe I am. And if it [00:34:00] hadn't have been for another friend of mine grabbing me by the back of the shirt, I was walking towards them because you just got me fired and now you're happy about it. Thanks a lot. You're so good. You should be so proud of yourself. 

Speaker 2: Yeah. Do do you have any idea how specifically she bypassed that system?

Well, she 

Speaker: wrote, so I'm, you have to get written up three times in order to get fired at Walmart. No, no. I 

Speaker 2: mean, how does she specifically end up getting a management position at that location? Is that easy? I dunno. 

Speaker: Like I said, she was just buddy buddy with somebody and they were trying to fill the photo lab thing in a hurry.

Management thing in a hurry and they should not have gone with her. 

Speaker 2: Yeah. So they gave her a waiver. 

Yeah. They gave her a waiver. I mean, 

Speaker: anybody else that was working there at that time, even if they'd had gotten promoted from sitting down or, from doing what they were doing to being a manager, would've been a hundred percent better than her.[00:35:00] 

Speaker 2: Well, alright. But you are better off for it, right? 

Speaker: Yeah, I am now, I wasn't at the time, that was back in the early two thousands, so no, I'm not still like holding a grudge or whatever, but kind of sounds like it when I talk about this because it's kind of annoying and it, dude, it pisses me off all over again that I got fired because somebody didn't like me.

Speaker 2: Yeah. So there are two types I don't like. HR is one of them. I don't like that department. Alright. Mainly because they like to meddle in things that they don't belong in. Instead of carrying out HR functions, which they often drop the ball on, and middle managers just play by their own roles.

They're sucking up to the bosses. They're very authoritative to the ones that have to report to them and rely on them. And, my experience, I can't speak for everybody, but my experience is they love lying. They're just pathological, liar, all of 'em. But, it is just the way it is that they.

They're [00:36:00] acting in their own interests. All right. Definitely not in the interest of the company. All right. And it just creates a horrible situation, they demonize the top execs to the underlings. They basically, try to communicate to, , these employees.

Yeah. It's basically conference. 

Speaker: Yeah. It's basically, this is what's gonna happen and you have not, there's nothing you can do about it. When actually the fake one, that fake writeup she gave me before that, where she kind of went around to everybody and was like, what do you dislike about Nikki? And wrote me up for all of it.

That shouldn't have been a writeup. I should have had recourse for that, but I wasn't told how to do it. 

Speaker 4: All right. And 

Speaker: then of course the final one. That's 

Speaker 2: HR for you. That, that, that's the other problem. Like you said, HR and middle managers, for some reason there, there's a stigma about HR that they only work in company interests.

I disagree with that too. For my experience, they are in their own way. There are, they are [00:37:00] sort of middle managers also, but they have their own agenda, they just have their own agenda and it's a problem, that they need to be, they shouldn't be buddy bodied with anyone.

That they should really be neutral. They should explain to employees, alright, these are your rights, these are your obligations. They should definitely tell the employer, Hey, look, these are the boundaries. You can't overstep them and make recommendations. But they're not doing that, they're kind of doing their own thing.

I heard of HR departments dropping the ball on, healthcare benefits, right?

Just missing deadlines. There's one HR department where during COVID, in her infinite wisdom, the head of hr, this is a different company, but, she instituted a no carpooling role during COVID and fired two essential employees, because they came to work together, right?

In the same car, you know, 

Speaker: their husband and wife? 

Speaker 2: No, just neighbors. Neighbors. Just neighbors aside the carpool together. It's just you gotta think through the policies, okay? You just gotta think it through. You [00:38:00] can't just be like, all right, this is the way it's gonna be.

It's my way or the highway. My experience with HR is just, too much meddling. Nobody wants to see those newsletters. They wanna know, 

Speaker: except the one place that I've seen. Again, I have not worked a corporate job. I've never been in this situation of that. The only, the most corporate job I ever worked was Walmart and I wasn't in corporate.

But, I hear stories all the time about people getting their food stolen all the time 

hR is like, we don't handle the food with that. But as soon as they put like a laxative from their doctor 

Speaker 5: Yeah. 

Speaker: Or hot sauce that they would actually eat in their food and it upsets the person who stole the food, all of a sudden it's a big deal.

And why would you try to poison your coworker? I wasn't trying to poison my coworker. That's my food. 

Speaker 2: Well, you know, it becomes hostile work environment. It becomes a question is this now a hostile work environment? That's what [00:39:00] they care about, that's the question they need to answer.

Right? So if you booby trapped your own food, you're not allowed to booby trap stuff. You're not allowed to do it. But yeah, they, I don't think they should be responsible for someone's lunch. I mean, that's kind of annoying to come into work and get to the, like, well be a detective getting to the bottom of it, post a sign or something.

Speaker: Couple of the stories, everybody knew who was stealing it, but nobody would say anything because he was a manager and was in good with hr. So, alright, well 

Speaker 2: the proper, and this is hindsight, 2020 here, but the proper course of action would've been hostile work environment, taking it up with hr.

'cause this person is interfering in other personal space, making them uncomfortable. So, and just bring it up. Just call them out on it. I've come to the, I've never heard of a manager steal anyone's food. 

Speaker: Yeah. Apparently the guy's wife was a chef and was making him really good lunches, and somebody kept stealing them all.

He put like up a camera [00:40:00] in the room where the lunches were so that he could see it. And like the dude walks in, walks to the refrigerator, picks through all of the lunch bags in there, picks this dude's lunch bag out of like the back and like walks back out with it. 

Speaker 2: Yeah. I heard of them trying to disassociate from the, from the rest of the staff just having lunch on elsewhere on the wrong terms instead of.

Not even buying, just have lunch in the same lunchroom. Why do you have to be weird about it? Well, 

Speaker: because he's stealing the lunch from somebody else. He can't be caught eating in front of them's no 

Speaker 2: guy. I'm talking generally speaking, but, yeah. 

That explains it. 'cause the guy, yeah.

'cause the employee has a wife who's a chef. He's taking advantage of that situation. 

Speaker: So let's talk about mental health. So, you said earlier that like during the part where you were building up the business that there were some hard things you had to get through. Do you want to share those [00:41:00] so 

Speaker 2: well personally?

Well, I got into, I got into how everything fell apart, right? So when I say everything fell apart, I meant everything fell apart. So one day I'm in la giving a client a tour, scheduling, I was actually invited to, a yacht party. I had to firm it up with them.

But anyway, two days later, I'm in Pennsylvania, take a, take what? A two three hour drive to Pennsylvania from New York City. And here we are transitioning from, a small warehouse to a bigger one, a much bigger one. And you know that, that took a deep toll on me. So, first of all, I did mention.

I had to sleep like three weeks in my own business, alright? 

In the office of my warehouse. That is something, in retrospect, I really don't know, even though what the correct answer would've been looking back on it. But it's something that I felt I had to do at that time because it's either do this [00:42:00] or except the consequences and you're left with nothing, all right?

You're left with absolutely nothing. The processes just fell apart. The, it was a different culture. What worked in California, did not work in Texas. I'm sorry, what worked in California and Texas did not work in Pennsylvania. It just all fell apart. And at the same time, my own manager there, he was going through his struggles.

His mom was admitted to hospice. She lived in the uk. He had to fly back there, so he had to drop everything and go there. So here I am, I flew in there. It must have been nine, 10 o'clock at night. And I am just going over everything, going from the, I looked at the new warehouse, everything's on the floor, didn't get a chance to look at the existing one that we have, the original one, which was just a few blocks away 'cause it was so late.

But, there was a lot to do. And I'm thrusted into this culture that is very unfamiliar to me. Very different group, very rough, and [00:43:00] I'm just rebuilding everything from the start. All right. And I had to keep my finger on the pulse. This was, it was one of those things where. There was a reason why I slept there.

It wasn't 'cause I couldn't afford a motel room at least I could have afforded that at that time. But, I had to keep my finger on the pulse. I had to figure out, okay, if I have an idea that popped in my head at 11 o'clock at night, I want to execute it, right? I wanna be there, right?

I want, I wanna be there before the first person goes in and way after the last person leaves. 'cause I need to analyze stuff. So that was a major struggle. All right? A lot of people were working their nine to fives, enjoying life. Here I'm basically rebuilding from the ashes here. And before you know it, the then COVID hits, all right?

So the, here I am, sleepless days, sleepless nights. Just, I can't even tell you. I mean, wow. It must have been way over 80 hours a week that I was working, but. 

You know, it, it was one of those things that life kind of thrusts you into, right? 

I never asked for code to broke out totally outside of my control, but [00:44:00] I had a roll with the punches, right?

Had to work on recruiting. That was me working round the clock 24 7, practically 24 7, bouncing around between airports, 'cause I have other warehouses and other obligations. But, just bouncing around, working around the clock, that takes a toll on you. That definitely takes a toll on you.

It was to the point where, you're almost like a zombie, just kind of going through the motions there. Just laser focused on what you have to do. That was some corrupted wish I was living, honestly. That was, if you can imagine this corrupted wish where, okay, you have a mansion, you have a garage full, a hundred thousand dollars cars, and you're just bouncing around from one motel room to another.

Okay. Not enjoying any of the fruits of your labor, just running through everything just like that. That's like a, that's like a major toll. It definitely took a toll on my health. It probably aged me a good five years, if not 10, [00:45:00] yeah, it was quite a problem.

There were a lot of, health consequences as a result. That, that I'm still working through. But then it's a question of, alright, well was there an alternative? What was the alternative then? You're kind of put in this position where you have no choice, right?

I lived through my own trauma on that one. I will say, I'll never repeat that ever again. 

Speaker 3: So, way too old 

Speaker 2: for that. But, it did take me through, it just took, it did, it was pretty traumatic. In that sense. And it shows up in the blood test.

It shows up in the weight gain.

Speaker: So the lesson that you should learn from that is when you completely ignore your own body for weeks at a time. And concentrate only on whatever months you're concentrating. Months at a time. Sorry, months. That's even worse. My duke, so months at a time, it's going to, it's karma is [00:46:00] booming.

I don't mean that in a bad way in this case anyway. I mean that as you're putting all the energy into your business and none of it into you now it's gonna boomerang and now you're gonna end up with health problems that are harder to get rid of than just a cold. 

Speaker 2: You're basically putting a debt on your body.

Mm-hmm. You're putting a debt on everything. By focusing on that now, it's not to say that you shouldn't put somewhat of a debt on, but you shouldn't ignore it either. 

Speaker: You should be careful about how much debt Yeah. You rack up on your body. 

Speaker 2: Exactly. Exactly. You can't say, well, screw it.

I'm not doing this.

Speaker: No, it doesn't intend to work that way. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2: That has some consequences too. Yeah. 

Speaker: I have had a body that hate, has hated me since birth, basically. I've had glasses since I was five and I've had psoriasis since I was five. Psoriasis actually longer than the glasses.

[00:47:00] Really? Because they finally figured, geared out my problem with high stepping when I went to kindergarten to get my, eyes and ears checked to see if I could go to school. And they were like, yeah, she needs glasses before she comes back here. And my mom's like, glasses. Is that what she needed?

Because military hospital. Yay. Military hospital. They did do spinal taps. Nobody thought to check my eyes,

When you have basically a preexisting from birth condition, you learn that there's only so much time that you can spend ignoring it. It's going to get really mad and really loud and very painful, and you have to come back to it.

So that debt for me is faster. I don't recommend it to anybody because you, if you do it long enough, hard enough and with enough whatevers, 'cause you have to have [00:48:00] kahunas to do it for longer than a couple weeks or months. It could end up killing you as the debt you've taken all the debt your body can handle and it could, make you no longer on this planet.

Speaker 2: It especially, yeah. For me it was sleepless nights. Just lack of sleep and it showed, it definitely, I had, I have my, someone from my wife's side, just looked at me, is like, wow, Alan, you're ugly. What happened here? Scary looking. But, it just showed and

it started manifesting itself with, with, elevated cholesterol. Right. So all of a sudden I have high cholesterol. Yeah. I was eating at gas stations, right? Mm-hmm. 

That was a wake up call. Be much more judicious in what you're eating. Be much more selective. I ironically, the stuff I was selling was like natural foods.

But they were snack foods, had to get a bite somewhere during COVID. It's only, junk food restaurants that were open. 

So that it started manifesting there and, and just snowballed. I mean, it was to the point [00:49:00] where, my blood test results showed I had neither any testosterone nor any estrogen.

Speaker: And what did that make you? 

Speaker 2: When you barely have the energy to drive yourself over to get a blood test. Yeah. That, that, that was a problem. So it was a lot of, just a lot of self care that you have to do afterwards. 

And as a result, I started, taking my care a lot more seriously.

I train, at least three times a week, weight train and all that stuff, eating right and everything because you, you have to take care of it, right? Otherwise, you're just gonna drop that and collapse. Yeah. That was an extreme and, mentally it definitely takes a toll on you,

Mentally, I'm not reliving those dark days. Okay. It's not happening. 

Speaker: So here is my PSA, if you are living with depression and the only thing you are eating is ramen, please remember that little packet is like 90% salt, and it will cause [00:50:00] a debt. 

If that's the only thing you're eating.

So that's 

Speaker 2: horrible. That's absolutely 

Speaker: horrible. 

Speaker 2: And speaking of depression, I was going to a doctor, it's one of those suburban doctors, that treats housewives and all that stuff. She asked three dumb questions to try to, prescribe antidepressants to you. And I said, no, I'm not going for that.

I am not going for that. Take depression a little bit. My PSA is just take it more seriously. Don't just, defer to one physician's. I can't call it a prognosis, just one physician's suggestion, because you have to kind of question their motives. It is three questions, really enough to determine whether you need an antidepressants and it could make things worse.

I think I've seen probably more people on the antidepressants. That are not cured versus the ones that are cured. 

Speaker: So most of the mental health medications, just so people don't get the wrong idea, are not meant to cure, they're to help you become at least a tiny bit [00:51:00] more normal.

Speaker 5: Yeah. 

Speaker: So for me, my emotions kind of go wherever they want to when I'm not on meds and I don't need to be doing that to people. I don't need to be crying. 'cause it's Tuesday, I don't know. Yeah. Sometimes it's stupid. You don't really know why. So yes, I am on something that kind of encapsulates them a little bit.

Speaker 5: Right. Perfectly 

Speaker: fine. And it's not off of one doctor's thing, it's off of it. It was a, I think it took a year and a half for me to get a diagnosis. So there was time. It took time and effort and people listening. So. No, the first person with that first, Zyrtec, not Zyrtec, whatever the z antidepressant is anyway.

Zoloft. 

Speaker 6: Is it Zoloft? Zoloft, 

Speaker: yeah. Yeah. I think that was my first antidepressant I was given. I was like, this isn't doing anything. Why are you giving me this? 

Speaker 2: I think about it was, I'm here at a doctor's appointment. It's not my annual physical. I'm here for an ailment. [00:52:00] And she would ask stuff like, she asked only three questions.

One, one of them being, have you done any fun in the last week? Okay. 

Speaker: Oh yeah. Okay. So the list, I terrify more nurses by being completely honest with that list than I have ever actually gotten any help because of that list. Because I don't care. I'm gonna be perfectly honest. I'm gonna tell you, I'll answer those questions.

And then the person leaves and the doctor comes in and they're like, you're seeing somebody for that, aren't you? And I'm like, yes. And they're like, okay, we don't have to do anything. No, you don't. You shouldn't be asking me anyway. 

Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, in my case, I'm just like, this is lunacy. Like, have I, and it's whether I've done anything fun last week or not, should not be the key determinant of if I need to.

No. 

Speaker: For any, the, the things that I've been given, the list is usually seven to 10 questions. One of them being have, are you seeing or hearing things that aren't there? Are [00:53:00] you, um, are you, um, do you want to take yourself off the planet? Yeah. Or do you want to take. Others off of the planet are, are included in the list.

And so, yeah. No, I tell them as soon as I'm ready for my, my, I love meat jacket, I will let somebody know, but it is not today. 

Speaker 5: Yeah. Which actually 

Speaker: made my doctor's office because they learned that I am being seen by a therapist and I'm doing the meds thing. They're like, okay, we're gonna stop asking you those questions.

I'm like, that's great. Now I don't have to terrify your nurses because they don't know what to do. 

Speaker 2: Well, they have their own weather. They do not hear 

Speaker: things. I do not see things that are not there. But, um, I, I do, I am actively passively wanting to take myself off of this planet, which means I won't actively do it like by myself, but if something were to happen, I wouldn't move out of the way either.[00:54:00] 

Speaker 2: Uh, I know I, I take a different view. I, I, my, I, it's not scientific at all, but you know, my view is, okay, should we all be onde depressants or antidepressants rather? Maybe the world has to change. Maybe the environment has to change around us. All right? 

Speaker: Mm-hmm. 

Speaker 2: All right. Yeah. And my 

Speaker: environment changing around me has changed a lot too.

So 

Speaker 2: yeah, there's that mean for the better Nikki. 

Speaker: Yes, for the better. Very much for the better. I have stepped out of some pretty bad situations and I'm in a very good situation now. I, um, I love the per, I love my friend that I'm living with, like, not like that, but um, yeah, like we're really good friends.

She helps me a lot. She is the epitome of calm. Have you ever like broken a plate and had your mom scream at you in like six different octaves? I have and it's actually more terrifying than the plate, the plate breaking. I broke something around Kim and she just kind of went. I hope you picked that [00:55:00] up.

Well, what just happened?

Why are you mad? Like, what is happening? Are you messing with me? Are you gonna yell at me later? What is happening? And she was like, no, it's fine. It was a mistake. You're great. And I'm just like, 

Speaker 2: you take it from what it is. I mean, what, what the plate come from? The Ming Dynasty. Did you inherit it from the Habsburg umpire?

Like what was this like? 

Speaker: I mean, it was something stupid. I can't remember what it was, but it wasn't anything of wealth. But yeah, it was, she was literally just, why would I be mad? I saw what you did. It wasn't on purpose. You're fine. Let, let's pick it up and I'll get you a bandaid for your leg. 'cause one of the shards had come up and hit my leg, so I was bleeding, but it was just like the complete opposite that I've ever had in my entire life with anybody.

Yeah. And so it was one of those moments that was like, oh, wait, I can be safe around you. 

Speaker 2: Wa [00:56:00] was your mom more like a control freak? 

Speaker: My mom was a narcissist who, uh, was medically neglectful. 

Speaker 2: Okay. Yeah. I I was just wondering if she tried to just control every little facet of life and breaking something was not on the agenda.

Speaker: Uh, you know, those Corning wear plates that like, don't break for nothing? 

Speaker 4: Right. 

Speaker: I was putting one of them suckers away above my head. I was putting it in, dude, I don't know what happened, but that thing exploded above my head. Like exploded. My dad was standing right next to me and he even, he went, what?

The, and my mom was 10 words deep before my ear stopped ringing from the explosion. So like, what? It is. It was, I, what did I do? They're supposed to be on brick wall. Yeah. Instead of 

Speaker 2: going, okay, I just paid for Gorilla Glass, it'll, it almost killed my daughter. You're 

Speaker: like, just break the, this thing just broke right above your head.

Is your [00:57:00] eyes okay? 

Speaker 2: Yeah. 

Speaker: Did you get anything in your eye? No. Okay, fine. Let's clean it up and we'll keep, my mom would scream and she would get these foams at the side of her mouth from her. And it was, at least in my teenage years, it was so hard to be in a fight with her and not just start laughing.

But I knew that was a stupid mistake to make. 'cause I'd done that once before.

Life has it shenanigans. If you are dealing with, wanting to take yourself or others off of this planet, I suggest that you go, if it's an emergency, go to the hospital. They will point you in the right direction for a nice three day stay, to help you get back on your feet. And, if you are on medications, please do not let anything we've said here today take you off of your medications because you don't know yet if they're actually needed.

That is a conversation between you and your meds doctor or your doctor, okay? So [00:58:00] just wanna get that PSA in there before. Can I say something about that? 

Speaker 2: Even though I'm not qualified, I do remember what I learned in, sociology class regarding, regarding suicide. And studies have indicated that usually those that commit suicide or attempt it are of the view that they're either trying to get away from something that they can't or trying to break into something that they can't.

All right? So keep that in mind. You're trying to get away from a lifestyle that looks, impossibly, like insurmountably, bleak, can't get away from it, so they off themselves.

Or it's the other way around. Right. Trying to get into a group that you'll never get into, for example.

If they are sort of contemplating it might pay to examine that, examine if it's truly the case that you're trying to get away from a life that you'll never get away from, because chances are that can't be right. That's impossible.

You could always change the environment around you. [00:59:00] 

Speaker: Yeah. I didn't talk to my mom for the year before her passing, her whole side of the family. I don't talk to them. I don't talk to two of my sisters. I have gotten rid of, at this point, the toxic people that I have been around throughout my life, and I did it.

You can too. 

Speaker 2: All right. And you became better as a result? Yeah, 

Speaker: I'm much more relaxed. I'm around people who actually love and care about me, and that has been doing, that's been great for me. 

Speaker 2: Yeah. Did you ever see yourself initially in a situation that you can't get out of? Yeah, there 

Speaker: were a lot of different situations that I thought, nothing.

This is the worst it's ever going to be. I'm never gonna be any better. This is the worst I'm ever going to be. It can't get any better. 

Speaker 2: And then you realize how you feel, and that's not a lot things around.

Speaker: Yeah. You just have to meet a new friend, talk to people. Sometimes we get so much in our head that we're not actually talking to anybody and just talking to [01:00:00] a, somebody we know of as a friend might help.

Because it lets all the cobwebs out when you actually talk to other people. So 

Speaker 2: yeah, it's true. It's a lot easier to change your environment than a lot of people think. They think that they're bound, by all these social ties or family ties and everything.

Mm-hmm. And it just weighs on them, right? 

I can tell 

Speaker: you that if you need to get away, walk 

Speaker 5: Yeah. 

Speaker: You don't even need a car or any of that other stuff. Walk, yeah. Go to a bus station, get a bus, pass somewhere, new state or whatever, and just do something that's gotta be better than where you were.

You be starting over? Yes. It's gonna be scary at first. But you won't have the people you had screaming in your ear that you're a dumb ass or an idiot, or whatever it is that they say to you. You'll have your own. I am deter, I am fixed and determined to make a great life for [01:01:00] myself and just keep going.

Get a job. Yeah. Keep moving and keep growing. 

Speaker 2: Yeah. Or not even, not even abusing you, but just weighing you down. I have the same thing. After my father died, 80% of the people like basically carved out of my life. After that, it just shed a lot of clarity.

It shed a lot of clarity that, these people, I'm around, they're here to take and, just take whatever I have to offer. Right. 

One of my 

Speaker: sisters. One of my sisters is a pathological liar. The other one will ask you to borrow 20 bucks this week and she'd give it back next week.

But first she has to take you to an ATM and then she needs gas money, and then she needs whatever she bought in the store paid for. And so by the time it's at an end, you actually spent like $40 on her. But she's only gonna give you that 20 back next week if it's next week. 

Speaker 2: Yeah. If only for 20. For me, yeah.

For me, the bank of, Alan is completely closed. Yeah. [01:02:00] Completely. Yeah. Go to a bank, go do whatever you gotta do. And if it means, not being friends anymore, so be it. 

Speaker: Yeah. Also, my sister that likes to take money is she was also the golden child. She was the one my mom like doted on and loved up on and stuff, and she was just as far up my mom's butt as you could be and still be a human being.

And, so when my mom died, she went nuts with the, you can't talk bad about her, she's dead. I went, yeah, show's Hitler leave me outta this. I could talk about bad about anybody I need to talk bad about. As none of your business type thing. And she ended up blocking, she disowned me and my sister and blocked us both.

And then tried to come back a year later and just be like, people you may know, no thank you. I have blocked six of her accounts. Now you disowned me. Why do I have to talk to you? 

Speaker 2: Do you have any reason? Do you know why [01:03:00] she tried to reestablish connection with you? Well, because 

Speaker: that's what she does.

She'll stop talking to you for a while, and then she wants to slide back in because she needs money again, or she needs whatever again. And I don't have that for her anymore. 

Speaker 2: All right. For me, I have, it's more comical. It's more like with my wife and her sister. 'cause one's a millennial, the other's a younger millennial and millennials like to cancel each other.

So all of a sudden you say something, you say the wrong word, you say the wrong line. That's it. You're canceled. 

Speaker: No, my, that sister is my older sister and she is, the Gen X. 

Speaker 6: Yeah. 

Speaker: I'm just barely on the line. 

Speaker 6: Yeah. April of 81. So like, 

Speaker: I'm like right there. 

Speaker 2: Yeah. But yeah, for me it was just, it was just too much.

I mean, especially when you think about it, as soon as they found out, okay, I have a law degree, I practice law. Lawyers charge a lot of money. I mean, that's it. It was just nothing. But take, take, take. 

Well, how about asking, okay, Alan, how are you feeling about, after the funeral?

How about [01:04:00] attending the funeral? How about acknowledging that there was a funeral? All right. Yeah. 

Speaker: That doesn't happen. 

Speaker 2: Yeah. And, at some point you just need to, you're better off. You're much more productive just carving them out of your life and moving on.

And, back to the point about suicide, it is that easy. It is. It is that easy just to pick up and walk away, 

Speaker 3: right?

Speaker 2: I mean, how many domestic abuse survivors have you heard of that just walked away with nothing but the clothes on their back? 

And yeah, it'll be tough.

It'll be a struggle, but it'll eventually work. 

Speaker: And if you're in a DV situation, I believe you can go to pretty much any hospital or the police station, and they will put you in a domestic violence shelter, which means that there is no contact from the outside world. And he can't get in or she can't get in, depending on that.

And that way, you can try to move on without that on your back. 

Speaker 4: Yeah. So sometimes it works, sometimes, well, most of the time I guess it works, [01:05:00] but yeah, because it's 

Speaker: actually like the first six months after somebody leaves a DV situation that they're most likely to be involved in a violent situation from that person finding them again.

So being in a shelter that doesn't allow that person to come anywhere near, and then most of those shelters will take you to a different state, or send you to a different state, to pick up the pieces. 

Speaker 2: Yeah. But the point is you can change your life around, right? If there's a situation you're in, you can step away from it.

If there's a situation you try to get into, I feel like it's hopeless. Well, that's a different story. It depends what the situation. Change 

Speaker: your goal, maybe change your goal. You have to work on yourself more before the, you can do that thing. Or maybe it's that you have to be realistic and you're not an Olympic swimmer.

Speaker 2: Exactly. 

Like, if it's, only a handful of people on the planet earn one. 

If that's, what's driving you to suicide change your goal. 

So it is just the way it is. [01:06:00] But popping pills and all that stuff, I'm so against it.

I don't know. I think there's too much abuse of that happening, try to work it out with your own lifestyle before you decide to take that kind of shortcut. It might work, it just might work,

Speaker: but if you're currently on meds, don't touch anything without talking to somebody.

'cause some of the side effects and things that can happen if you go off of a drug, abruptly, will not help your situation. That's the only reason why I'm saying that. Like, if you're on meds, keep taking your meds until you talk to somebody about them and see what you can step down on or whatever.

Speaker 2: Yeah. What would you say to people that kind of lost faith in their doctors? Would you advise? It is 

Speaker: so easy to get a different doctor. 

But at the same time, why have you lost faith? Is it because they haven't diagnosed you with anything? Dude, I've had a headache since 2019. Two weeks ago it decided to become a migraine, and so I've had a migraine every day for the last two weeks instead of just a headache, which.[01:07:00] 

Absolutely sucks and no, it has not been fully diagnosed. The medicine they have me on makes me lose words. It sucks. I would like to go off of it, but when I did that, my head pain got worse. So I'm back on it. Obviously. I am waiting to see a neurologist, but if you have a situation where you have to wait time until you can get to the specialist, there's literally nothing anybody can do.

Having faith in your doctor at that point isn't a thing. My doctor is fine, but she's also not the one that needs to deal with any of this. The neurologist does because they are the people who know about heads better than just a general physician. 

Speaker 5: Right. 

Speaker: If it's because your doctor is a guy and you're a female and you would rather see a female doctor walk your happy butt up to the front desk of your doctor's office and say, Hey, I'm not comfortable with a dude.

Can I have a female that goes for. Therapists, doctors, it [01:08:00] doesn't matter. I have a couple of male doctors, actually, let me rephrase that. I have one male doctor that's my rheumatologist. He has never had to touch me in his life, so he gets to keep being my rheumatologist and we're fine. But if you feel more comfortable with a dude instead of a female again, so there are many ways you can be unhappy with your doctor and it's all about trying to figure out a solution.

I think there's just so many different solutions for whatever the different problem is that should not be part of the reason you are thinking of leaving the planet. 

Speaker 2: Yeah, and probably make an attempt to get several opinions. Get three opinions. See if that makes sense. Try to, if your insured 

Speaker: will allow it.

Otherwise paying for some things is expensive, but 

Speaker 2: yeah, perhaps, yeah. But it's still always best to, scrutinize your doctor a little bit, see if what they're telling you makes sense. See if it makes practical sense for [01:09:00] you. Have 'em explain things a little bit better, 

Speaker: completely. If your problem is that your doctor talks in language that is for doctors and not for you tell him he needs to bring a nurse in with him, that can translate. 

Speaker 3: Yeah. And I've done 

Speaker: it before because the doctor was just like, I have a college level reading and comprehension. I can comprehend a lot when you get too far into the textbooks for medical 'cause I've never done that.

I start to lose you. And so I've literally had to have his nurse like, can you just translate into like plain English, whatever the crap it is he just said, 

Speaker 2: I sent my wife to, the head of neurology right in, in Dallas. You should see this guy. He looks like Jack Black.

He talks in Jack Black 

Speaker 3: neurologist. That's all we need.

Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. Yeah. This guy, he's very mellow and talks in plain English. And he's the chair of that department. He gets millions and grants. He's a very smart guy, but he knows how to conduct himself.

He knows how to talk to patients to ease [01:10:00] them. Yeah. Right. My 

Speaker: rheumatologist is the same way. 

Speaker 2: Exactly. He comes in all disheveled with a loose tie and, very entertaining person. But, by the same token, very knowledgeable, very smart. I wouldn't trade him in for the world, but he knows how to put things into plain English.

And, when you email him, when he responds to his email, of course he's gonna respond very intelligently. He's not gonna be all like, like Jack Black, and all that, but he'll answer questions. He won't be, if your doctor's already talking to you in the condescending tone, just to, get you away from them, that's sort of like a red flag, right?

Have it, it's their job to explain things to you so you can make an informed decision, that's just the nature of it. Now, if you have a doctor that is not even making eye contact with you, they're focusing much more on their real estate portfolio than on you.

Yeah. It's time to seek health elsewhere. Yeah. Because you have to,

Speaker: doctor's office has like 10 doctors in it, so you can just switch to a different one. And if you're in one of those doctor's offices and you've switched a new one, but you're getting the same [01:11:00] treatment, go to a different doctor's office.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Also, I wanna mention, there's nothing wrong with a pa. They are no knowledgeable and caring. I see a pa they are so knowledgeable in what they do. 

Speaker: Yeah. I see. The pa I don't see the actual, I think there's four doctor doctors, but the rest of 'em are PAs. I just call them doctors because it's the same thing.

I'm going to the doctor's office. 

Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. So , if it's something routine and they know they can handle it. They handle it. If not, they refer you elsewhere. 

But they kind of tell it to you how it is and, it just because they're PAs doesn't make 'em less of a medical professional, really.

I've been a lot more impressed with PAs lately than, with regular doctors. Some of 'em have completely disappointed me. Like some of them, I just like, I can't even explain to them anything. They don't wanna hear anything. 

It's like you go to a doctor and like, if your weight fluctuates by 20 to 30 pounds a month, that, that sends off a signal.

Right. That don't applaud me if I lost 20 pounds in a month. Okay. There's something, were 

Speaker: you, the thing is somebody should be [01:12:00] saying, were you trying to lose weight and are you eating? 

Speaker 2: Yeah. 

That wasn't asked. Okay. That was more like, like that doctor pushed more of the, just selling antidepressants than anything else.

Speaker: Yeah, no, I don't like those. I also don't like the ones 'cause I am a larger person and they're like, oh, well if you just lose weight, your problems would be completely different. Dude, when my headache started in 2019, I weighed 190 pounds. I am not that anymore, but I am losing weight again. But the headache is still here.

So obviously my weight had nothing to do with it. 

Speaker 2: Right. And all right, so you need to see a neurologist. Yes. And don't go straight to a surgeon 'cause they love to cut. 

Speaker: No, I am terrified that I have a brain tumor though, because my mom had one of them. And as this keeps getting bigger, like the pain keeps getting bigger, I'm just like, I have a brain tumor.

It's growing. [01:13:00] That's why the pain's getting bigger and I don't have an MRI to, you know. 

Speaker 2: Yeah. 

Speaker: Take me down out of the clouds. So that's being a thing. I mean, 

Speaker 2: That's a major life changing step, don't just go gungho over a surgeon. 

Speaker: No. 

Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. Because some of 'em have, primarily a surgery background.

They do consulting. They're gonna lean towards surgery.

Speaker: This is my brain. We are not going No, I know how you did the surgery on my mom. You're not doing that to my head. Thank you very much. 

Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. So she came outta, she's a great doctor that you're compatible with. 

Speaker: Yeah. She came outta surgery looking like somebody punched her in the eyes.

Speaker 2: Alright, Nikki. Well, you have a great day