Hustle Culture, Boundaries, and Building Trust in Business – Andee Hart

Sales coach Andee Hart joins Nikki to tackle the myths of “Boss Babe” culture, share honest sales strategies, and explore the mental resilience needed to thrive in business. From calling out hustle hype to sharing personal therapy journeys, they dive into trust, boundaries, and the value of integrity in entrepreneurship. A candid talk blending business insight with real mental health conversations.

Website: https://andeehart.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andeehart/ Hart Design Co Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hartdesignco/ Andee’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/andeehart/ Pinterest: https://www.pinterest.com/shesellsdifferently/ Podcast: She Sells Differently https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/she-sells-differently-authentic-selling-business-growth/id1731402504

Andee Hart
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Speaker: [00:00:00] Hi, my name is Andy Hart and I am the owner and creator of She Sells Differently, and I focus on teaching women entrepreneurs how to show up and sell in a way that aligns with their values in a way that helps them sell with integrity, grace, and humility.

And the reason that I am so passionate about that is because. Women entrepreneurs so often shy away from selling their products and their services. And I truly believe that when you have a product or a service that provides a value to others, that you owe it to the world to talk about it. And so that is what I do with, she sells differently.

Speaker 2: That is awesome. There are a lot of [00:01:00] people out there who,

including me, 'cause somebody will be like, so what do you do? And I'm like, I don't know. I don't know how to tell you. I don't know what to do right now. Why did you have to ask that question?

Speaker: Yeah. So tell me a little bit, Nikki, about what you do. What, tell me a little bit about operational harmony.

Speaker 2: So Operational Harmony is the podcast. It doesn't, bring in income or anything. My business is Nikki's office, which I help entrepreneurs with social media, office management video and audio editing, and, tech help usually helping them learn this software that they're using. I love that. I think so 

Speaker: many people struggle with tech.

Mm-hmm. So how did you get into the tech? Like what kind 

Speaker 2: of [00:02:00] spurred that? I've always been interested in computers. I can't code to save my life. Mm-hmm. But I can walk into a program, no, I'm not perfect. I'm not gonna walk into a program and know every single feature within a little bit, but I'm gonna know the basics.

Yep. More of the basics than what the video is taught. So I get really irritated with people's, Hey, learn how to use it. Doing this video. Yeah, dude. I'm like, beyond that, but like, now I'm stuck. Yeah. So it takes a little bit after that to figure it out. So I can learn programs quickly, especially to be more, used to that program way faster than somebody else.

One of the guys I work with that has been with me since the beginning, he got given a software an entire year before it was given to me when I got my brain back. And he asked me if I could go into it and look at it, and I was like, sure, I [00:03:00] knew more about that program within a week than he did the entire year looking at it.

Yeah. And that's not a Ooh, good. Look at me. It's a I actually can help. I did. I did it. I have my associates in it. Computers have always been something that have, interested me and been something I could do where I didn't think I could do a whole lot. 

Speaker: So this is exactly what I love talking about and the kind of conversations that I love having with women entrepreneurs, because even just hearing you talk about what you love doing and the passion that you have with it and the value.

That it brings to others, and then understanding how you show up and sell that service, that [00:04:00] is something that I work on with women entrepreneurs and how do you show up and how do you sell your service or your product because it is valuable to the world. Mm-hmm. And so I would love to hear a little bit more from you of what has that sales process looked like for you as you have grown your tech business, and has that been hard for you to sell your value or sell your services?

Speaker 2: So because of my background with all the trauma that I've had, even thinking that me doing anything is worth anybody's time, money, care, whatever, is something that I struggle against all the time because for me it's, I'm not worthy. I'm not good enough. Yeah. That kind of thing that was drilled into my head as I was growing up.

And so now I'm trying to take that [00:05:00] back and do something. Mm-hmm. And it kind of feels like, you know how those, a little kid say three to five, whatever, they're like, mom, and they're yanking on their mom's shirt. I feel like that every single day. Sometimes when I'm going, no, this is what I do, this is how I can help you.

Oh, I don't need that kind of help. Yes you do, because you just called me seven times about tech and you're not listening. So. 

Speaker: And that is interesting, Nikki, too, because I venture to guess so many of your listeners, when they hear what you just said, that they're gonna resonate because while they may not have had the same trauma that you've had, they, we've all had.

Some type of trauma or we've all had, some, we're struggling with some kind of inner voice or inner critic, whether it's imposter syndrome or it's a trauma that has told us that we're not [00:06:00] good enough and that what we have to contribute is not worth it. And so why should we even try? And so you have obviously made it this far and been successful.

So what are just some of the steps that you have had to take to hush that inner critic daily? 'cause I know this is probably daily, right? Mm-hmm. What are some of the steps that you have had to take from just a mental wellbeing standpoint, to have the courage to put your offer out into the world? 

Speaker 2: So in middle school, I switched from being in special ed to regular ed after going from first grade reading level to college level reading in two years. Wow. But I had a guidance counselor come up to me a couple days [00:07:00] after the switch when I was like hardcore panicking because now my classes were like, for real, for real?

And she told me, oh, don't worry about it. We totally expect you to be here next year. And I kind of put the middle finger in my brain up and went, no, I'm not. And that stubborn streak that allowed me to grad get out of eighth grade. I would've been on the honor roll, but math gave me a d Mm. So to turn it around and have that, when somebody had said, you can't do it, pretty much is how I get through everyday life.

It is. My mom said I wouldn't survive past 30, and I lived past the time she did. So I'm perfectly okay with that. Yeah. But it is to me a big, you know, screw you in my brain like [00:08:00] that. Even the thought, even if it's, that thought from before when that other stuff was happening, it is. Now, you're not gonna tell me I can't do it because I can do it.

I've done it before and I'll do it again. Yeah, it's just my stubborn streak really, which I'm not sure is very helpful for my guests. 

Speaker: I think, it's funny. First off, math, my worst subject too, hands down. So I feel you there.

Speaker 2: And I went from doing distance, subtraction, multiplication and division.

No fractions, barely any decimals in anything into a classroom where I walked in and there was the alphabet on the board and I just kind of went, the hell did they do to me? I know how to read, but I didn't know you were supposed to read math. Yeah, but I still, I got a DI didn't fail. Yeah. Whether that was the teacher going, yeah, let's just let her have this or not, I don't know.

But what I do know is I fought hard for that. [00:09:00] Yeah, I studied hard because my brain, I still can't do fractions very well, and everybody still gets surprised. Oh, you can't half a recipe. No, I didn't even see fractions until the end of eighth grade. What do you mean? Yeah, why can't you do it? I don't know.

'cause my brain says that's not a thing that should have to be done. 

Speaker: And now I'm thankful for spreadsheets that do all of that for me. Mm-hmm. And yes, I went into business and I realized I definitely need math for a lot of data analysis and things like that, but spreadsheets do it for me. So yeah, I'm doing just fine.

But yeah, math was definitely my worst subject. One thing I have learned too, so kind of going back to something that you said, very interesting, you said. My stubborn streak was really kinda what got me [00:10:00] through it. And I think the same thing for me. I don't know if it was necessarily like my stubborn streak, but one thing I've learned is that sometimes what can be perceived as our greatest, like weaknesses can be our greatest strengths.

Speaker 4: Mm-hmm. 

Speaker: It's about how we steward them in the right direction to really catapult them into a strength. And I see in you like what you have used that to. Push you into success from a sales perspective as an entrepreneur, you know?

Speaker 3: Yeah. 

Speaker: So I love that. It's just, I see that often and, I think that's interesting.

Even from like a mindset. A mindset and a mental wellbeing perspective, I would love to hear a [00:11:00] little bit more if you would just share, just defining what you know, like the hustle based business culture. 'cause we hear about that all the time. What that means to you, and especially like from a mental wellbeing standpoint.

And then I'll share a little bit my thoughts on it, especially from like a sales standpoint. Okay. 

Speaker 2: Yeah. My opinion isn't favorable. I do not like them. People running around going, I'm a boss babe. No, you're spending too much time getting, dressed up to do whatever Facebook thing, but are you really actually working on your business or are you just doing social media?

'cause there's a difference between being somebody who has a business and somebody who is an influencer, right? And people are backing away from influencers and actors and [00:12:00] stuff, and not putting them on the pedestal that they used to be put on. Because it doesn't really do any good for them to be making a million dollars for a movie, which hey, if that's what they're making, I'm not trying to take it away from 'em.

Right? That's what they deserve for what they did. But at the same time, that doesn't mean that they get a say in a lot of other places that are not from acting or that kind of stuff. The whole Boss Babe thing has turned into like the Valley Girl thing from the eighties and nineties that everybody hated, but like some chicks could not let go of at all that accent and all that good stuff.

So for me, I don't like that now hustle culture again. I have my work. I know my worth. To the people that I work with and I get new clients by word of mouth, by alignable, by all these places. That doesn't depend on me talking to [00:13:00] somebody who's like, you gotta have that nine to five hustle. I work my hours.

You are lucky sometimes to get me up at nine o'clock in the morning. Right? I work later in the evening, not early in the morning. I'm the same way. I'm the same way. Yeah. So for me, no matter what you're doing, the culture of things should not be brought into it. You should have your own company culture.

Sure. Should it be all of you running around in Armani saying, boss babes? Probably not. You should have probably a little bit more maturity than that, but for me it's seriously showing up. Because you can say you're a boss, babe, all you want, but are you showing up to appointments with the correct information that you need?

Are you going to networking and actually networking, not just Airheaded being an airhead the whole [00:14:00] time.

Speaker: That kind of thing. 

It's interesting. I love your take on this because I have struggled with this boss babe culture too, and that's one of the reasons why I named my business and my podcast. She sells differently because I wanted to differentiate from culturals expectations of sales and what women entrepreneurs are specifically this boss babe culture and this quote unquote like bro sales mentality or bro marketing.

I don't know if you have seen like some of these sales video, like Facebook ads or you see 'em a lot of times on Facebook ads, but they'll be like sales trainings and they will be either guys or girls, but they're getting in their like Ferrari or [00:15:00] their million dollar plane, billion dollar planes, you know, and they're talking about the sales advice, common sales advice, and I'm just like, no, no.

Like I've been in sales for 18 years and I hear the same advice over and over and over again, and I have walked into corporate boardrooms and been the only woman at the table with 20 C-level executives, and I can tell you like that may have worked for you. But I don't want to teach that kind of advice where you have to slide the truth to get a sale and bend your integrity.

It's not worth it. It's not worth 

it. [00:16:00] And trust once it's broken, once you break that trust, once they figure out that you slid the truth here or you slid it there, I was gonna cost a little bit more than I said, or it's not gonna do everything I've said. Once you break that trust, people walk, nobody wants to be lied to.

You're not gonna get reoccurring payments from that person because you lied to them. 

And sometimes it's not even just about a flat out lie. It could be pushing a product or a service that is not the perfect. Fit. And let me tell you what I see time and time again, and I learned this early on in sales, and this goes, this is such good advice for every entrepreneur out there, no matter what you're selling at the end of the day, so often people think, I've closed a sale.

Great. [00:17:00] This is money in my account. Like, let's move on. But let me tell you what happens after the fact. You can close a sale and whether it's a course, you're delivering a product, a service, but if you know that it wasn't the perfect fit for that client or that customer, guess what? After the fact, if it's not a stellar experience, they're not gonna buy from you and they're not gonna refer you or give you a great testimonial.

And the best customers are the ones that buy from you over. And over and over again. 

Speaker 2: You ruin your own reputation doing things like that. Yes, yes. So there was, I'm not gonna name the platform, obviously I'm not doing that, but there was a software that, one of my roofing companies was going to move to.

I did all the lead [00:18:00] up. I did a demo with somebody who, a salesperson obviously, who said that Yes, yes. You, that's can be done with our software. Yes. That can be done with our software. Yes. That can be done with our software turnaround. When we started moving over to that software, half of what we needed could not be done.

The owner of the company that I was with at that time, first of all, was kind of upset with me because now I've like. Put forth this company like, yeah, it should be great. They say they can do everything and now they can't. So he ended up getting into getting in touch with like their bigger person, like I'm not sure who, and was complaining and said, look, your salespeople told my person that they could do this, this, this, and this.

And the guy went, we can't do any of that. And I'm like, yeah, that's the problem. And so we ended up moving back to the software we'd been [00:19:00] using before and everybody's kind of upset with me because I suggested the moot. But I was going off of information that I got from a salesperson. As a salesperson, if you are talking to somebody and you're doing that demo, you might cost them their job if you're telling them bad information, a hundred percent.

Speaker: A hundred percent. And your job, and the way I look at it, especially if you are working with a consultant like yourself, your job is to make them look amazing, right? Mm-hmm. And so I have seen that time and again, and it's so frustrating for me on the backend because I've seen high level coaches that tout seven figures, seven figures, and then come to find out [00:20:00] clients that they have worked with, have had the worst experience with them.

And the reason they're getting to seven figures is probably because they're paying that for the ads and who knows if that's even the profitability, right? But I think it, it goes to show that you cannot replace the integrity and selling from a place of excellence and in a way that truly aligns with what you are delivering.

And so that's why I always talk about integrity, grace, and humility, because that is so counter-cultural to what traditional sales advice talks about. 

Speaker 2: Oh yeah. Usually if you are humble or being that meek and whatever, it's, oh, well you're a cry baby. You don't know what you're doing.

No. That means that you're paying attention to what the [00:21:00] customer actually wants. Yes. And you're giving them the information. The other day I actually went into another demo with somebody because they were like, Hey, we wanna demo with you. And I was like, sure, fine, I'll demo with you. We get to the part where she starts talking about money and I'm like, wait a minute, this was for a scheduler, right?

And I was like, do you have a bulk upload? Oh no, we can't do that. Okay. I'm not interested. And I stopped it there because I'm not gonna keep going. If I'm not if you get that part of it going, sure hit me up. But until then, I'm not leaving the one I have because I have a bulk uploader. So maybe you should figure out what you're doing wrong.

And, she then emailed me the prices and different things that it can do. And I'm like, dude, that one part was [00:22:00] it. I have a customer that I have to do 30 days worth of content at once. Do you really think I wanna click on all those boxes one right after another to put that information in there.

No, thank you very much. Yeah. And she's just, but I that to me, you're not listening to me. If you're not listening to me. You don't have anything I want to buy. I refuse to buy from people who don't listen to me. 

Speaker: Or they might have something that you want to buy, but they wouldn't know it because they weren't listening.

And I think part of that humility piece is knowing. When you don't have something that aligns with the customer in front of you and understanding that at the end of the day when this is all said and done, I don't have the right offer that meets [00:23:00] your needs because I have listened and asked the right questions, so this wouldn't be the perfect match.

And I am going to tell you that I'm gonna communicate with you on the front end. And a lot of people confuse humility and with having a lack of confidence, it's not the same thing. Humility to me is knowing exactly the value that you bring to the table and having confidence and being willing to say, I'm not the right person for you.

I'm not the right offer for you right now. I can point you in the right direction. And do you know Nikki, every time I have done that, every time

that person has like wide-eyed and been like, really I, and either come back to me [00:24:00] and bought from me when it was aligned in the right time or bought a different offer later down the road every single time, it's selling differently and selling with integrity. Mm-hmm. But it takes mental awareness and mental wellbeing to be able to do that.

Speaker 2: You have to be able to say, I don't know, but I will get back to you with that information. And then here's the key part. Actually get back to them with that information. Right. If that woman. Had emailed me saying, Hey, I understand that we are not a good fit now, but I have put the information that you were looking for through to the people it needs to be put to.

And as soon as I hear more, I will get back to you. That would've been fine. Instead of an email that's like, Hey, these are some of the things we can do for you, dude. No you can't because you don't have what I want. 

Speaker: [00:25:00] Yeah. And I think that's going back to like, you know what I was talking about, the hustle. Culture and kind of the boss babe culture. I think that's what I am constantly struggling with and trying to combat because it is not all about putting your offer out there to everyone that will buy, it's putting it out there to the right. Clients and aligning with the right clients. 

And, bringing that full circle to what we were talking about of it really takes some mental fortitude to be able to do that.

Speaker 2: The other thing about boss Babes, they also will cover up for each other. This one makes a mistake. So the other one, covers up that [00:26:00] mistake for them. This dishonesty, no matter which way you cut it.

Being in business for yourself kind of means sometimes that you either have to take the fall by yourself. Or you get to stand on that mountain by yourself. So if you have the integrity to say, Hey, I screwed up, but I know how to come back from this. Let me hit it a different way and maybe I can fix this and then work on it, instead of just saying, Nope, I didn't do it.

That wasn't my fault. No, you have to take accountability for what happened to you for what you did for the choices you made. And then if you're standing on that mountain and you've got that medal in your hand that, Hey, I've won this part of it, that doesn't mean you stop. There's always another mountain 

Speaker: that's leadership too.

I truly believe. And I think all of these are just [00:27:00] lessons that you learn in the trenches. Mm-hmm. Yeah, for sure. 

Speaker 2: Yeah, you screw up a couple times. No matter if you're a boss, babe or not, and you don't take accountability for that, you'll be out on your butt in your image, your professional, what's the word?

Brand? No reputation.

Your professional reputation and your personal rep reputation take a hit when you do a. Stupid stuff. When you make mistakes, when you're not paying attention to the details, when you're not looking at the bigger picture, when you're not seeing everything that needs to be done and missing something, when you're only looking at the tiny little pieces and you don't step back to go, oh, I completely made that wrong.

Yeah, right. There's [00:28:00] you, there's different views you have to take for different projects, and if you're not viewing it correctly, you may miss the things that need to be in it, or you may be doing it completely wrong because you're not backed out enough to be able to see what you're doing. You're just seeing the tiny little pieces.

Yeah. There's a time in goals, in projects and everything where yes, you're supposed to be working on those little things, but there's also times that should be set for you to look at the whole picture and make sure that you're making the adjustments you need to in order to keep going. You can't just make the goal, okay, I'm gonna make a hundred grand this year and then start getting $5 offers from people.

That's not gonna get you to a hundred grand in a year. Yeah. It'll start you off maybe, but then you build on it and you do another service and you do another thing and you build and you build and you build until you come to, Hey, at the end of the year, I got my money. Yeah. To do. Next year I'll have to be more because obviously I'm here now.

This is my [00:29:00] base now I can keep going forward. Yeah.

Speaker: That's something that is a lesson all in of itself too, of, really learning to simplify. And from a sales perspective, it's very easy. And this is something that I see all of the time and I have been guilty of. So a lot of these I share because I've made the mistake, myself that you put an offer out there and it may not sell as well as you anticipated.

And it doesn't necessarily mean that the offer's bad. Maybe it was you didn't prepare for the launch as well as you should have. Maybe it was the wrong timing. Maybe your sales copy was not as robust or it didn't hit the right pain points, or, there's a lot of reasons why, [00:30:00] but I see so often that people will scrap it and move on to the next offer, create a whole new offer.

And the reality is that you have to continue to refine your approach. Meaning if what you did, how you approached that launch, or sold that offer didn't work, tweak it. 

Then don't tweak everything at once. 'cause then you won't know what you did worked right. But continue to refine your approach.

Because the one thing that I have learned in sales, it really sticks out to me, is that if you continue to make one adjustment and to put your offer back out there, and it, let's say it improves, you pull it back, you make another little [00:31:00] adjustment, put your offer back out there and it continues to improve, guess what?

Eventually you're gonna. Make one little adjustment. It could be the copy on your sales page that is all about the frustrations that your audience is feeling and you nail it and all of a sudden orders are gonna flood in. 

And it's like you just turned on the water faucet. Yep. And that is what I see people miss all the time, and I'm guilty of it myself because we think that our offer is bad when an actuality what is off is how we're presenting it and how we're selling it.

And so we just have to be consistent and we don't need these big elaborate portfolio of offers [00:32:00] and big elaborate sales funnels and we don't need big complex businesses because guess what? That's gonna make our minds and just blow go crazy. And we really need one really great offer. And we need to nasty and consistency to stick with it. 

And I think that is one of the huge differences I see between successful entrepreneurs and people that don't make it. 

Speaker 2: There's also the assumption, at least in my mind for all of the boss babes, I don't know why I can,

but for all of the boss PAs that for a lot of them anyway that I've seen, it's always, my morning routine that lasts six hours. My day routine that lasts 10 minutes. Like if you're working for 10 [00:33:00] minutes to three hours a day on your business, you may not be seeing the results you want because you're not putting enough time into it.

You're putting all your time into your me time in the morning. Yeah. I'm not saying go hog wild and like turn your day into I don't have a life syndrome. Right. But at the same time, if you're not working when you say you have a business, there may be a problem. 

Speaker: I will give you actually a perspective on this, maybe a different perspective.

One of the things that I have found for myself that has been really, really helpful and especially from a mental wellbeing, is that centering my mourning in. So I'm a Christian. I, believe in the Bible. I need to center my mourning in scripture. 

And so a lot of people, they may look and they may [00:34:00] say, I need to exercise.

I need to, which is great too, or I need to meditate what, whatever that looks like for you. But having the balance for me, and what I know I need is first thing in the morning, I need to be in the word, I need to be in scripture, and I need to be in prayer. Yes. Because if I miss that and dive right on into work, which is easy for me to do because I have all these ideas, and like I'm ready to let, like I love what I do, then what I have done is I have not paused and centered my day before the Lord and what matters.

Speaker 2: So I think what you missed was the fact that I said six hour. Morning routines. So no, I totally believe in reading your scriptures [00:35:00] in the morning and praying and all that good stuff. Should that take six hours? No. It's my opinion, but No, but I'm talking about the ones who are like, they need, um, they have to, and I don't really care about exercise.

Do that in the morning too. But it's two hours of exercise, two hours of hot yoga, two hours of meditation, two hours of journaling. Like, no, stop it. You need to work on a little bit more balance in your life . 'cause people will say, I'm balancing my life. See, I'm doing all this good stuff in the morning.

Good, better, best. 

Speaker: Yes. I heard you say six hours or 10 minutes. That's where I was like, working 10 minutes. Yeah, yeah. 

Speaker 2: Working 10 minutes a day. 

Speaker: I follow you. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. It would be nice, I hear people say this too all the time of like, you can get this done and like, only work five hours a week.

And I'm like, [00:36:00] I don't know. And I know like there's a popular book out the four hour work week, and I'm like, that's really cool. But actually I don't do that. I actually love what I do, so I wouldn't really want to do the four hour work week. But you do, you,

Speaker 2: do you not actually have to do anything for your business? Is that how we're doing for it? I don't know, but I'm not gonna complain too much because I have to be busy. My job is meant to make me busy so that I stay out of here because here. There are demons. 

Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. And I think everyone has a different need.

A different need there. Right. I enjoy work. I'm not married, I don't have kids, and I enjoy what I do. I could understand one of my, out joke caller, my biz bestie. Right. She is married and has two kids. You know, she cannot [00:37:00] work like I do. And so for her to be able to spend 10 hours a week working on her business is a gift.

Mm-hmm. That's a gift at this stage of her life. And it's just different. 

Speaker 2: Yeah, working around kids brings a whole kettle of fish into things that I'm not ready to talk about. 'cause but from what I'm talking about is the boss babes who you all you see them saying they're doing is, oh, I was on my bike for two hours.

I was on, I was meditating and I made money 

Speaker: While I was working out. 

Speaker 2: I dunno what you're doing, but unless there was a camera on you and you weren't, nevermind, let's not go there. Yeah. There are certain ways you can make money doing those things, but there are not ways that I would want to make money.

Just my personal opinion on that. And you're gonna attack me all you want, but, whatever. But for [00:38:00] me the only reason why I even mentioned that was because there are the ones who are like, yeah, I do all this stuff in my, as my morning routine because, come along with me to see my morning routine and it's like a two hour video and they've sped up parts.

No, thank you very much. Yeah. But they're not working. They're doing yoga and all this other stuff. And then they're like, okay, now I'm gonna sit down and do my job. And they do it for like an hour and then they get up and they go and they do something else. Oh, time to relax. It's lunchtime. I had avocado toast 

Speaker: and, I don't want to bash their lifestyle if that works for them.

I'm like, more power to you. That's amazing. What I focus on is the character and integrity of how I teach people how to [00:39:00] sell. And I really, really want to make sure that anyone that I work with, what they're walking away with is a good understand, first off that they know when they work with me and they by any of my programs, or they sign up to work with a service that they know that they're gonna get.

An excellent experience that's aligned with what they need and they're gonna walk away with a clear understanding of how to sell in a way that aligns with their values and in a way that is how God created them to be. Some of the best salespeople I've ever met are introverted. You don't have to change who God made you to be a great salesperson.

You don't have to go out there and be, ah, you need to buy my pro. You know? [00:40:00] No, you just need to believe in your product. 

You just need to be believe in your product and you can then sell with that. Exactly what I was talking about with integrity. Grace and humility, which is my word for confidence.

So yeah. 

Speaker 2: Okay. So just to make a final point, I was not really like bashing them for that, but I am saying usually if you have a business, you need more time than what Yes, I have heard and seen them pushing. That's all I meant there. And being 

Speaker: realistic, you absolutely do. Mm-hmm. And we all know that what you see on Instagram and Facebook is not always realistic.

Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely right. So that was that final [00:41:00] point. I just wanna make sure, yes, that we know that I'm not sitting here bashing with a hammer or anything. It's Yes, I knew what you meant. I knew what you meant. No, it was just me saying like it. And that's part of the integrity thing.

Like if you're going around telling people you're only working for an hour, when you actually work way more than that, then where's your integrity? A hundred percent. What are you gonna lie about an otherwise 

Speaker: a hundred percent yes. The only 

Speaker 2: acceptable lie in my book is when a woman asks you, does my book look big in these pants?

Lie like a mug if you have to. That's funny. That is funny. You do not want to die lie like a mug. That is funny. But everywhere else you should be telling the truth. There is no reason. To be lying or withholding information. 

Speaker: Yes, I agree. So what is your favorite, like kind of along that line, like what is your favorite way to recharge when [00:42:00] you're not working?

Speaker 2: I game and I read, I play World of Warcraft and See a Thieves and I read stuff. 

I get tease teased all the time because of the books I read.

Speaker: I used to read like 40 or 50 books a year. And it's interesting because since I have been self-employed, I really have not read as much. But I did just pick up a book. This is actually a Christian book.

It's called Dark Clouds, deep Mercy. So my sister-in-law that I was just talking about, she recently lost her mom. And so this is actually a book. As we talk about mental health, probably very much in line with that. And so I just gave it to her and I am reading it along with her. It is about, lamenting and just the Christian practice of lamenting.

And so that is a book that I'm currently reading and highly, highly recommend, for [00:43:00] anyone, even if you're not craving. 

Right now, you probably know someone that is. And so it is just a really, really good book. So, yeah, just a little side note there. 

Speaker 2: Last year read over 300 books. I love that.

I am not on track to read that many this year. So far I have been doing podcasts a lot and that leaves me way too burnout to read. But I'm almost done recordings. So I should be able to start reading again soon. I love that. I take the time, I don't sleep unless I take sleeping pills. And there's always the time between taking the pill and going to sleep.

And that's usually where I read has had harmful effects as, you know, if you get to a good part, I don't care how drowsy I am from a sleeping pill, I will fight it. I'm reading this right now, and then I end up, up all night because now my sleeping pill [00:44:00] decided that it doesn't wanna work anymore

Speaker: oh man. So I, one of my clients, most of my clients are product-based businesses, and one of my clients makes a magnesium spray that I swear by. I rarely have products that I'm like. Can't live without her. Magnesium spray is amazing and I spray it on my stomach before I go to bed. The most restful sleep I've ever had.

And magnesium is just a natural thing that our body needs. Best sleep I've ever had, and I use that every night. Just a lavender magnesium spray, so that I highly recommend. It's called, her business is called the turquoise door, DOR, the turquoise door. If anyone would like some great mental health product, if you need one.

I am not a sponsor of any of these products. These are not my [00:45:00] products. 

That i'm just giving you my personal recommendations. And I am not an affiliate for them either. 

Speaker 2: No, I just had to do that 'cause I was like, wait a minute, I don't want anybody thinking that I'm getting money from this one.

I'm not. Oh yeah, yeah. We get no money for this. 

Speaker: I just genuinely love them. Okay. We should clarify that.

Good call out.

Speaker 6: Hey everyone. Thanks for sticking with us. Before we dive into our next topic, I just wanna take a quick moment to remind you two who like this video, subscribe to our channel and hit that notification bell. That way you'll always be the first to know when a new episode drops, and we want to hear from you.

What topics are you most excited about? Drop your thoughts in. The comments below. Your feedback helps us create content that you love. We've got some exciting stuff coming your way, so don't miss out. Now let's switch gears and jump into our next discussion.​[00:46:00] 

Speaker 2: First of all, I want to be transparent and say that I have two therapists. I have one mainstream therapist that I work with who is a wonderful woman. And I have one friend of the family who is a licensed therapist, but who works with me because she knows me. So that I have backup with my therapist.

'cause sometimes, things happen, I have a lot of trauma in my past. If you watch any of my past episodes, you'll know that I kind of talk about them a lot. This is not to be a woe is me, and I want to be the most famous person in the world because I have all of these mental health problems. But in every single episode where I have mentioned something, it had to do with the conversation and.

I am trying to help the best way for me to do that is to share my experiences so other people [00:47:00] don't feel like they're alone.

Now, with all that said, I am not a therapist, so we are going to be talking about why you should go to therapy and them helping you. I am not saying I can be a therapist and you should contact me 'cause No thank you. I don't wanna be a therapist. 

Speaker: Me either. Me either. But I highly recommend therapy as well.

So I did have a regular therapist, but I recently moved, about five or six months ago, to be closer to family. So I moved to states and my therapist is not licensed in the state that I moved to, so unfortunately I can't see her. But, I first went to therapy when I was , working for the first , fortune 100 Company.

So this was probably, maybe like 10 years [00:48:00] ago. And I was just in a very high pressure sales job. And I was a woman in a man's world. I was in technical sales and a lot of what I was talking about in the earlier part of this episode, just feeling a lot of pressure. Not only with a sales quota, but also to sell in a way that didn't align with my values.

I can remember one time I had a boss that, I would craft million dollar and negotiate million dollar deals, right? I had a boss that called me up and the culture at this company was one where it was not, where the boss was like [00:49:00] helpful. 

It was like, okay, if you lost the still, where are you gonna make up that revenue and why are you doing that?

It was always accusatory and I remember he was like, why did you propose this solution? And I am technical enough to be dangerous. This was, a tech solution. I have an engineer that worked alongside me. I was the salesperson. That was what I was hired to do. And so I walk him through it. My engineer was on vacation and I said, if you wanna get into like the weeds of the technical portion of it, we'll have to get him on the phone, but he's on vacation.

He kept on berating me, like berating me to the point. And I am a pretty like, mentally tough person, but to the point where I was like, [00:50:00] I'm gonna pause right there and I'm gonna need to hang up because if I don't, I'm gonna say something that could cause me to lose my job. That's how bad this was. Like the, just the toxic culture.

And that's just one example because I dealt with coworkers that were so toxic and I don't think I realized what a male dominated environment it was and I had some amazing bosses and some amazing coworkers during that time too. I don't think I realized how toxic it was until I had a coworker that was amazing that I still keep in touch with, and he was like, you realize that what that person just did to you and how they're treating you is unacceptable.

People actually stood up for me [00:51:00] because I listen. I was like a duck in water that was like calm, cool, and collected above water, but underwater, I'm just like paddling. Do you know what I mean? Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I'm not gonna let anyone see my feathers ruffled. And I also don't think I realized like the depth of that stress and what stress was doing to me.

And when stress and it manifests itself, like just subconsciously and starts to affect you. Health wise. And so I went to my doctor and she was like, you actually probably should just go to a therapist, and I had this stigma at the time too of a therapist. And I found an amazing, amazing counselor, and [00:52:00] she told me, and I will never forget these words, she said, Andy, so many of my clients, it is not that they have all of this crap that they're trying to necessarily work through.

And you have this like stigma, right? And she goes, the reality is life is full of crap. We're all trying to work through it. But she said what therapy can do for you though is that you're living life at like 70% and you could be living life at 95%. 

But because you have this stigma of therapy, you're holding back from really living life full out.

And it made an impact on me, and she helped me put into [00:53:00] perspective an outsider's perspective of the way that person was treating me was unacceptable. 

And how do I set boundaries for myself that are healthy and good and right? And how do I carry myself in a way that. Is aligned with my values.

And even so that was about 10 years ago and I have kind of gone on and, gone to her on and off. But even just recently, this wasn't in the workplace, but I had, you know, a dear friend situation, just a conflict with a friend. And she helped me see it in a way, like, how can you own responsibility here, but also how can you set boundaries because how she's behaving is not acceptable.

So you need to set boundaries. And when we [00:54:00] set healthy boundaries, it allows us to live fully in our God-given purposes. And that requires us to say no to some good things. And no one had ever explained that to me before. Mm-hmm. So that was kind of a long explanation of my like journey. Just to scratch the surface of my journey with therapy, but it has been one of the single most helpful practices that I have put into place in my business.

Is going to therapy. 

Speaker 2: Okay. So, to give you background on me, I have been in and out of therapy since I was 12. I'd get in a fight with my mom because my mom was, my mom and I had a lot of anger in me because of different things that had happened. And, I would scream at her that I hated [00:55:00] her. And so she'd take me off to the counselor until the counselor told her.

Obviously I didn't trust the counselors because they had to tell my mom everything I was telling them. Not exactly the best way to grow a relationship with somebody. 

And they would tell my mom, she probably needs to be on some medication. And my mom would yank me outta that one, wait a couple months until my anger got too big again.

And then we'd have that argument again and I'd tell her that I hated her. And we were going to another one. During this time, there were also like school programs because why not? Where they had, like group therapy with a bunch of people. And I was always made to feel like my problem was less than anybody else's problem.

So there are horror stories. I have had good therapists, I've had bad therapists, I've had horrible [00:56:00] therapists. I have therapists that couldn't stop telling me I've been through so much trauma, which is very invalidating and dismissive even though they may have thought they were helping. I've had in the time span of, I think four years in Washington state, I had something like 20 different therapists because the therapists they kept giving me were going on to better solutions.

I was at the county place, so they were just going on to jobs that would actually pay them. I had a bad therapist that put me in a three day stay because I said I didn't wanna wake up in the morning. Mm-hmm. Didn't say it was a harm to myself. I just said that I didn't wanna wake up in the morning and I ended up in a three day stay.

After my second one of those, I was done with it, so I didn't go back to him either. I've had therapists tell me they could cure me in three months, which is [00:57:00] amazing since I have bipolar. I would love to see how you could cure me, especially in that short timeframe. None of these other people have been able to do it.

And I've had awesome therapists that if I was still living in their area and they were still practicing, I would love to still go to them. Therapy is a mixed bag. Yeah. But people should, okay. So number one, there's no shame in going to therapy No matter, even if you think everybody else is gonna feel like your problem is too small, go to a therapist anyway because you deserve help with your problem no matter what it is from somebody who can actually talk to you and help you figure out how you feel about it.

Instead of maybe a friend who's gonna be like, yeah, that guy was trash anyway, whatever, don't worry about him. Yeah. When you're having a conflict. My current therapist that I go to every week, is an amazing [00:58:00] person, because she knows me. I went in there two weeks ago after I got an email from a friend that I hadn't talked to in a long time, and I was very upset.

But by the end of the conversation I was able to, and that was technically the first time I've cried in like three years. So like, I guess if I'm going to cry, it might as well be in front of a therapist and not somebody who can actually make front of me for it, right? Therapy is there to help you work through things.

If you have any kind of trauma in your past. You should be seeing a therapist regularly if you don't have trauma in your past, but you have. Problems at work or at home or whatever, going to the therapist could help you clear away the cobwebs and actually see the situation that is happening, not what you feel like is [00:59:00] happening.

Because sometimes what we feel like is happening is three football fields away from what is actually happening. You want to get to know your therapist, you want to trust your therapist. That doesn't mean you're gonna be their best friend or they're gonna be yours, but if you don't feel comfortable with the person you're sitting across the little way with, then maybe it's time to check for a different therapist.

Speaker: Yeah. 

Speaker 2: If you are in an area that does not have Obamacare and you need mental health services, there are still places where you can get that. If your income is too low, and that should get you any medications you need and should cover any therapy visits you need. What you do to find out what HA is happening in your area and how you can deal with anything is call a therapist office.

I don't care which one do therapists [01:00:00] near me on Google and call 'em if they're in the state you are in and say, okay, I just moved here, or I'm just figuring out that I need help. Where do I go to find a therapist? And that place should help be able to help you with a, okay, what type of insurance do you have?

So you can go to whatever place, or B, you don't have any kind of insurance. This is what you have to do to sign up if it is an emergency. If you feel the need to not be in this world anymore, you need to go to the hospital because. It's not worth it. Stay work through your problems. Not every day is going to be as dark as it is now.

There are a lot of cultural reasons why people think they shouldn't go to therapy. Or if you're rich and people are like, that will ruin my [01:01:00] reputation. If you think that going to a therapist is going to ruin your reputation, there are ways to do.

Conferences so that you're at your desk or at your home or whatever, and on video, instead of going into the therapist office, which can be more high risk. Those people who do have that problem are not usually as normal little peons. That is the people who are higher up in the companies who can't be made to feel like they're crazy.

They're the people you know, in the White House, maybe, I don't know. They're people who are higher up the food chain, who really, if they go to therapy, they might be considered crazy, but they still need the help. There are still ways to do it. You just have to figure out what's best for you.

I believe because of all my mental health problems and all my physical health problems, I believe that mental health is just as important as physical [01:02:00] health. And if you're not taking care of your mental health, you are just as likely to die as if you had a heart attack.

Speaker: I love that you just said, you talked about, really just kind of comparing mental health and physical health, because they're both. So important. And something I wanted to highlight is that after or post pandemic, all of my therapy was actually done virtually.

So I did telehealth. Because that's all that my therapist offered. I'm way past that stigma anyways. I could care less. I tell every, I mean, obviously I'm sharing it on a podcast. I could care less. Who knows that I'm in therapy. I tell everyone, I don't care if you are on top of the world and life is great, I still think that you should go to therapy and, at least at some point in your life.

Everyone needs to process things. We live in a broken world. It's the reality. We [01:03:00] live in a broken world and we all go through crap. We are all dealt challenges, and we all deal with pain and grief and trauma. We're all sinful humans and we all just have things that are burdens to us. And so I think it's just very, very helpful.

And, just as I was talking, you know about earlier, from a business perspective, and from a personal perspective, one of the single biggest helps in my business, in my personal life, just from a perspective and a growth driver for me. Yeah. Highly recommend it.

And I love that you're bringing awareness to this. 

Speaker 2: Therapy is a proactive step, not a last resort. 

Speaker: Yes. Can you say that again for the [01:04:00] people in the back? Mm-hmm. Therapy, A proactive step, not a last resort. Amen. So usually when you go to the doctor, it's after something has already started happening.

Dude, I broke my leg, or I have, stomach pains, or I'm having a literal heart attack right this moment, or a stroke or something. I actually heard somewhere where somebody said they had a heart stroke and I kind of went, that's not a thing, but you go ahead and believe what you want. Strokes or brain?

If you go to therapy while you're not having problems, say you are in a good spot in your life and you're gonna go to therapy because you wanna learn coping skills, self-awareness, improve your relationship with your significant other managed stress, anxiety, or depression.

Depression and building resilience, you can do all of that before you have the problem. [01:05:00] So in my case, I had something bad happen and the therapies I've been in had never taught me any kind of coping skills, so my mind body shut down. I had some medical scares that happened during that time and that seemed pretty on point with me shutting down as bad as I did, right.

I did not have the coping skills that I needed to come out of it. It took me eight years to come out of it in a way that I could start helping other people

because I had to on my own and with a revolving cast of therapists, I could learn coping mechanisms to handle the absolute crap storm that was happening inside of my mind and body. If I'd have had those [01:06:00] coping mechanisms to start with, would I have fallen apart?

Guaranteed a hundred percent guaranteed because of what happened, but. Probably would've been able to come back to my own mind faster and not hurt the friends and other people that I did while I was down. Because you may not realize it, but when you're at the deepest part of your depression, even if you don't think you're hurting anybody but yourself, you are hurting those around you.

That does not mean I'm putting a weight around your neck and that you should do something stupid because now you feel like not only are you worthless, you are causing other people pain. That does not mean that. That means you come back from the ledge and you get the help that you need, whatever kind of help that is needed, and you move forward.

Yeah. And you be there for them. You show them, Hey, I came back and I'm here for you, and keep [01:07:00] going. I am an odd duck. I have put a wall firmly between me and leaving this plane on my own. And that means that there's nothing that could make me actually harm myself. Will I say stupid stuff sometimes because my mouth has no filter?

Sure. Does it actually mean I'm gonna do anything? No, because I've built that wall thick enough and tall enough all the way around that end goal that makes this so that cannot happen. I believe everybody, not even just people with mental health problems, but everybody should have that wall there because you may think you're fine today, but what happens if you lose all your money or all of a sudden your job is doing something freaky and you're the whistleblower and.[01:08:00] 

Oops. There are tools available if you just go to the therapist now so that when the bad thing happens, it doesn't completely break you into pieces and you can stand up quicker from the glow. 

Yes. 

Speaker 2: Does it mean you're not gonna break at all? No. But it will mean that you can pick up the pieces faster and easier than if you had none of those things.

Speaker: Yes. Completely agree. Very well said. And I think one of the things that is, we've given two very good perspectives on the beauty and the, purpose of, therapy. And I hope that from this episode that your listeners hear the value of therapy, [01:09:00] that it is so good, not just from, personal growth, but for business growth.

It's not just for those that have had intense, trauma in their lives, but also for those that have that need to set healthy boundaries that are living life at 75% and they wanna live life at 95% that we all have, crap in our lives. And that everyone, needs therapy at some point in their lives.

So just understanding that's just the full gamut, and the value that therapy brings, to your mental health. 

Speaker 2: So for. I do wanna make a caveat. Just because people are people, there are some people who use therapy as a weapon. They go to therapy and then they go to their partner and they're like, my therapist says you're a bad person.

Hmm. Okay. Do not [01:10:00] take those people at face value unless you are actually a piece of crap humane. And then maybe do, but it's very rare that part happens. Right? It's usually somebody goes into therapy and it starts talking to somebody and then, they go home and they start telling their husbands or whatever, you're an evil person 'cause you don't ever listen to me.

Excuse me, where did this come from? You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. So that does happen and. I am not condoning that behavior at all. Yes. Yeah. If you are using therapy against your children, against your, partner, I hope they leave you just, that's my opinion, because you shouldn't be doing that. Like therapy should not be the gun in your hand every time you get in a fight with somebody.

Now big reminder, seeking help [01:11:00] is a sign of strength and self-awareness, not weakness. If you are seeking help, that means you are trying to stay alive. You are trying to get out of whatever situation you're in, and you are strong. Those who are weak, never even think about looking because it doesn't cross their mind. And even, that may help you.

If you're starting to wonder if therapy could work for you, you're not weak anymore. Find somebody who can help you, even if you have to go to the police first. I don't know your situation. Make sure you are safe and your children are safe. And then get everybody into therapy. The more we talk about therapy and the good it can bring, and calling out those who are using therapy in a [01:12:00] wrong way, the less power shame has on us.

We can't be ashamed if everybody knows that a good therapist could help us so that we don't reach quit in the middle of something. There's that video of somebody, I think it was done way back in the beginning of the two thousands actually, where the guy's sitting at a desk and all of a sudden he picks up the keyboard and throws it, and then he picks up the monitor and throws it, and then the tower and throws that.

Like, let's not do that kind of rage quitting, maybe not catch a charge on the way out the door. And therapy can help with that. Yes, if you have any kind of trauma around bodily autonomy, the more you talk about it, the more you get the evil out, the more free you'll feel.

It's not easy. [01:13:00] I would never say that, but it's not supposed to be something you look forward to every week. Either it, this is something you're going to help you get through a situation, make sure you're ready for the next situation, whatever. And so while it should not cause shame and it should not cause us to feel like we are less than others, we also should make sure that we're walking into it ready to do work, not ready to sit for an hour and be fine.

Right. There's a difference in those approaches. 

Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. Not 

Speaker 2: saying every single time you go to your therapist, you should be crying. There may be a problem there and you may be dealing with problems way too close together. I would talk to your therapist about that, but at the same time, you shouldn't be giggling and laughing every single time you're in there either because I don't feel like that has as much impact.

As it should or could. [01:14:00] There's also a lot of different modes of therapy. So if you're trauma based, dialectical behavioral therapy is a good one, and they do have the buzzies, I don't remember the name of that therapy though, my bad. But they have ways to help you where especially with the buzzies, where you don't actually have to talk about every single thing that happened, and that might get you to the point where you can speak about it so that you can get that out.

Your therapist will also ask, okay, so seriously, I have an agreement with every therapist I've ever had that if they ask me, how does that make me feel? We're gonna have a fight, because that is absolutely the stupidest sentence I've ever heard outta somebody's mouth. So I do not wanna hear that. Make your own agreements with your therapist on things that will trigger you, or things that will just, [01:15:00] they may not like the, consequences of saying something type deal.

I would never hit my therapist. Is that what I mean?

But 

Speaker: how does that really make you feel?

Speaker 2: Just kidding. The, there's a guillotine out there with people's names on it who say that, but they should be able to help you walk through what you are feeling and how you can use it to fuel what you're doing with your business or your life. Maybe it can help you get outta bed more often, or. They can help you to kind of clear again, clear way the cobwebs so you can see more clearly what happened and, take things further.

Yes, like I said, I've been [01:16:00] in therapy since I was 12. I am not 12 anymore. I'm in my early forties, and so I've gone through a lot of therapies and I've done a whole bunch of them. The lady who asked me to punch a bear was probably my most hated therapist on the planet because that just made me feel bad and I went right back to punching the walls.

That was when I was like 13. So please don't bring that up as, oh, you're dangerous. I am not. And I was punching the wall so I wouldn't be dangerous to others Anyways. Like I said, around that time, I had a lot of anger built up because of things that had happened that I am not gonna get into because they're nobody's business and I can barely talk about them without sobbing.

So I'm not doing that on a podcast. Thank you very much. No, thank you. But therapy can be helpful. It can help you talk about things that you don't feel you can. For me, [01:17:00] the situation I was in when I was, not quite sure on the timeline, but I was 11 or 12. The situation I was in, I should have never been put into.

That should not have been a thing. Pillars of the community are not the people. Most people think they are. 

Usually caveats, but yeah. 

Speaker: Well, I appreciate you, just inviting this conversation. And I know that this is a tough conversation and one that needs to be had and is just so impactful for so many.

And so my prayer is that anyone listening that no matter what your situation is in life, that it encourages you to go seek out, someone a therapist to go seek out, [01:18:00] help to live life more joyful, and live life full out because there is hope. And I appreciate, the opportunity to have this conversation for sure.

It's just so, so needed. 

Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. Mental health, no matter which way you come at, it is a conversation that needs to be brought out of darkness and had the light shown on it. Absolutely.