Practical Woo: Healing Without Losing Yourself

Kim Keane joins to unpack burnout, trauma, and the myth of “quick healing.” She and Nikki get real about invisible beliefs, emotional needs, and why self-work takes courage and consistency. Together, they bridge the space between mindset, energy, and real-world action.

Website - www.kimkeane.com Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/kimvkeane/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/kimvkeane YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@kimvkeane Email - kim@kimkeane.com

Speaker 2: [00:00:00] Hi, I'm Kim Keane. I am an intuitive healing coach, and I help people who feel like they're stuck, whether it's with corporate burnout or their healing journey burnout, and really get to the real reason that they're stuck.

And oftentimes it's not what we really think it is, but it's actually something hiding beneath the surface. And so with that, there's a lot of mental work that goes into it, in terms of mindset and limiting beliefs. And then also there's an energetic piece to it as well where we, are like sponges and we soak up all the things, all the energy from our past, whether it's good or bad.

And we hold onto that. And so we have to let go of that energy to make space for like a more balanced, helpful energy. And so when we can work with the mindset aspect and we can work with the energy piece I feel like that's the magic sauce to where the real magic happens and we can overcome.

That burnout or overcome that feeling of being stuck or exhausted or overwhelmed because we actually understand why we got to that [00:01:00] place in the first place. And so oftentimes we think it's oh, because I, hate my boss, or I have too much on my plate. Or yeah, I don't get along with my coworkers or I'm not being recognized.

But it's really usually more than that. Those are the surface level symptoms of what's going on. And that's usually where we stay. We try to manage what's going on the surface, and we don't really go deep to get to the root cause. So we feel like, oh my boss didn't acknowledge the work that I did, and so that makes us feel like we're not good enough.

And there have been other times in life where we felt like we weren't good enough. And so it stirs up that old belief of not being good enough or with having too much on our plates, we feel like we have to take on the world because there was a point in time where that was. It's how we survived.

We took on the world because we couldn't count on someone else to help us. And so it's those childhood experiences or those, I'll say, past traumas that still show up today. And as adults, we don't realize that things that happen to us when we're a child are really still [00:02:00] playing in the background today.

And so oftentimes we have a hard time asking for help because we think oh, okay, I can do it by myself. I don't need help. Or I just have to get to the other side of this, and then I'll be okay, and then I'll like my job again, or I'll be more successful again in my business. Or I'll have, a better relationship with my coworkers.

But it usually takes more than just the surface level solutions of oh, I'll just journal about it or I'll, read a book about it or I'll, listen to a podcast about it and then thinking that's it, that's the solution.

Speaker 3: So for me I'm not woowoo Okay. I'm not one of those people who is the core of my being is lightened flowers. No, it's not. It's probably a lot of anger in there. So watch your step.

But what I do know is I can usually connect why something is happening now. Or why I am so upset about something now to whatever it's [00:03:00] connected to and making me upset about. Obviously I've gone through a lot of therapy. I've talked to a lot of people about a lot of different things in my life. So that's how you get to the point where you can go, oh, this is the time of year that X happened and my body, because your body loves to hold onto trauma for some stupid reason, is reacting to that past trauma today.

Just because it doesn't know what else to do because you're just as stressed today as you were then. And so now you're not only fighting your stress from today, you're fighting that stress from back then and trying to cope and it. You can only stack so many plates in a waiter's hand before they fall.

Speaker 2: Yes. Yeah. And it's funny that you said you're not woo, so I call myself practical. [00:04:00] Woo. So I am not the person who so yes, I believe in law of attraction. I believe in the healing energy of crystals and reiki and all of those things. But I'm not the person who says oh, my Akashic records said this.

So then that has to be the way, because I feel like yes, there are Akashic records, there are, soul contracts and things like that, but we are a human having a human experience in this 3D world. So we have to use the tools and strategies that we have in this 3D world because that's part of our lesson on our soul's journeys.

So I always say I'm practical, woo, because I don't like, I don't think it's helpful to use woo or spiritual terms or tools to bypass what's going on in the present to either justify it or like basically say, I don't have to take responsibility for this, or I don't really have to hold myself accountable for this, or I don't really have to work on this because it's part of this, or it's part of that.

And just thinking that the universe or some [00:05:00] divine being is gonna swoop in and save the day.

Speaker 3: I have my beliefs in, God and stuff, but it's not that I am obviously even when I prayed to him, it's not in the, okay, I know you're gonna heal everything that's wrong with me because it's been proven that sometimes we have to live with the pain that we're in.

Yes. And so obviously I may hope for healing. That doesn't mean, I know that the answer sometimes is no. A lot of people who are Christians will not like to tell you that. They're like, no, God always says no. If you pray and nothing happens, the answer's no.

If you pray and you have your miracle, obviously it was a resounding yes,

Speaker 2: right?

Speaker 3: Yeah. But sometimes it's a quiet no. And not the, oh, he got sicker and died and that's more of a resounding no. Yeah. No, it's time for him to go. So he's gonna go instead of the quiet. No not right now. [00:06:00] May, maybe something later. Yeah. But there's a difference between those things.

Speaker 2: Yes. And I think too, sometimes we get into this thought process of and this has a lot to do with like manifestation and things like that. But I think a lot of times people are like, oh, I didn't get it now, but that just means that something better is coming, something bigger and better is coming.

And it's not necessarily, that doesn't mean that it just means no, it

Speaker 3: just means no. Yeah. I've had people like that where they were like I prayed for this. I've also had the people who are like, I prayed for jackets for my kids and nobody brought me jackets for my kids, so I don't believe in God anymore, lady.

Go to a charity function or something. Tell somebody that you need jackets for your kid. You can't just pray in secret and hope for the best in that kind of a situation. You have to try to get them for yourself. He's just gonna put you in the right place to get that if that's what you are really looking for.

Speaker 2: Yeah, [00:07:00] and I think that it's an, you brought up an interesting point about that. It's like we have to have, we have free will. So we can ask for something, but we also have to take action towards that thing. And I think that's oftentimes where people on their healing journey or business, really, people in general get stuck. It's I've asked for this thing. And because there's the movie the Secret, which is all about law of attraction and and that it's ask, believe, receive, but there's a missing piece of the puzzle. You have to take action. So it's ask, believe, take action, and receive.

And so we forget the take action piece. And I think that happens a in a lot of different ways, whether it's in, business or personal too. It's, we forget the taking action piece.

Speaker 3: Yes. Because we can't just say, I want ice cream.

Speaker 4: Yes. And hope, I would like to say that,

Speaker 3: Yeah.

And then hope you know, but not have any in the house and just hope somebody brings it to you. Who's gonna know that you [00:08:00] want ice cream without you saying anything to them. And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with prayer and hoping for an answer. No, but sometimes, obviously there's not much you can do if the person has a, disease of some kind, or there was a car accident of some kind that is just a prey.

And sometimes the answer is no. Sometimes the answer is there's too much damage. And we have to live with that because we weren't the one that left. On the other hand, we have those people say, yeah, I pray to Jesus to know what cereal to eat every morning, and I have to tell you, he doesn't care.

No, he's not giving you an if you feel like something's giving you an answer about your cereal in the morning, that's you pushing your agenda, which is perfectly fine because you're supposed to pick your own cereal every day. Yeah. But like at the same time, you can't blame God if you ate Cheerios today, but you really wanted the blueberry, whatever.

You [00:09:00] can't, yeah. No, that's nobody's concerned but your own.

Speaker 4: Yeah.

Speaker 3: It's just a lot of times people think of prayer as asking permission for something to happen. Sometimes when you ask for permission, your parents tell you have to go mow the lawn if you want the money to do that, or you have to go do something else in order to get what you want.

That's basically the same thing.

Speaker 2: Yes. It's funny that you mentioned asking which cereal to eat, like using prayer to do that. 'cause there was a point in time where my girls would make fun of me for using a pendulum to ask questions and using that as a divination tool. And so my older daughter was the message like, oh, are you gonna ask it what you should eat for breakfast this morning?

So I just had to say that funny little side note, the cereal, I was like, oh, that's actually happened to me. Not that I ever asked is what I should have for breakfast. I was like, but my snotty teenager was making fun of me for using a pendulum. So anyways, really side note.

Speaker 3: But that's the things that can [00:10:00] happen is people, they get the pendulums, they get the Ouija board, and they're like, see, the spirits say yes, so I'm gonna get help.

I don't quite believe in that kind of thing. So maybe your muscles moved in the direction you wanted them to, even if you didn't purposefully do it. There is muscle memory.

Speaker 4: Yeah.

Speaker 3: And now before I get run over by the Ouija board, people just know that the only reason why I don't really believe in it is the most I've heard of anybody ever using them stupid things is 13 year olds that get the crap scared outta them.

Speaker 4: Yes.

Speaker 3: Because they use such thing. So don't come at me.

Speaker 2: No. And I honestly will say I don't touch it. We do. Oui board. Like I said, I'm woo, but I don't touch that because I've watched enough ghost shows to see where people, it did not work well in their favorite to use a Ouija board. So that is one tool you'll never see me touch is a OUI board.

Yeah. No I'm not. [00:11:00]

No way. No how Like never.

Speaker 3: Yeah. No. Not using it. Nope. It's not. Not me. I've never used one. We'll never use one. But there are people, 13 year olds mostly who get Ooh, this is a party trick. Let's play with this. And then they get the bejeebers scared outta them when their parents turn the lights off or something.

Speaker 4: Yeah. So

Speaker 3: I mean there's that. Yeah. I'm not making fun of people. I'm just laughing at you because I think you're weird that you wouldn't use that and got scared 'cause the lights went out.

Speaker 2: Yes. Like I said, so that's the one. One thing you will never see me Lum, tarot cards, Oracle cards. Sure. I'll use those definition rules, but I will not touch the Ouija board. I will be one of those people who will be creeped out and I am not going there. I know my lip. But yeah, so it's just, it's interesting to see what how, which strategy and things people use, excuse me, to look for the relief.

When they're in that moment of struggle.

Speaker 3: It's just like [00:12:00] when, okay, so we're going to get a little off topic about this, but it's my rant and I wanna do it so I don't watch those ghost Hunter movie TV shows or movies. Do you know why? No. When is the most convenient time that they always go to the secret places that are haunted?

They go at night, they scare the bejesus out of themselves and tell you there was a ghost there to hurt, to soothe their own feelings, right? Yes. Now what happened was you went into an old building that's doing some old type stuff, and you got scared because you did it with no lights at midnight.

Speaker 2: Yes.

Speaker 3: Yes. Stop doing that. Why couldn't you go look at it in the daytime? Oh, it's not as, it's not as fun for your watchers. Yeah. Probably not, because you're not getting the crap scared outta you. 'cause of the light and bright and you can see things. Yeah.

Speaker 2: Yes. But I have to say, I do [00:13:00] still love watching those shows, mostly because I like to see the places that they go, because I like the history behind the places.

So I like to hear what the building was used for, 200 years ago and things like that. But a lot of times I like, I laugh at them because they're like, dude, and it's like there was nothing there. Yeah. So I feel you, Nikki. I feel ya.

Speaker 3: So limiting beliefs in my way of thinking are usually things that we have decided we can't do. Because, and you can fill that because in with whatever it is because of, right?

Speaker 4: Yep.

Speaker 3: But we decided 99% of the time without actually trying, and that 1% has tried like one or two steps and then went, oh, this is hard.

I'm not gonna do this. Yes. And so you limit yourself. So I've tried, no, see, I tried, I [00:14:00] actually did a couple of steps and it was really hard. So I really just can't do that. The only things I say I can't do is move correctly, and that is because I have arthritis in my lower back and hips.

So I literally cannot move correctly. I cannot like, bend down to the floor. I can't do that stuff. That's the only time you should be saying you can't do something when it is physically impossible for you. Say you're four foot two and you're reaching up to the top cabinets and you can't reach something that is, you cannot do that because they are five feet above your fingers.

Speaker 4: Yeah.

Speaker 3: So there are reasons for that in my mind. If you put up limiting beliefs and it's because you're saying, oh, I've tried that before and it didn't work. Did you do all the steps? Did you go completely through it? Because somehow I doubt it, you would've done something there's always some kind of results if you try something, [00:15:00] try.

Yeah. They may stop after a while because, it's not exactly the best advice, but maybe it gets you more organized.

Or maybe it shows you the steps, you should be taking.

Speaker 2: Yes.

Speaker 3: Yep. But, there's not, I also can say I can't swim. I can keep myself afloat for a while, but I don't do well in water.

That whole, I had very bad people Teaching me how to swim in my youth is a thing, right? And so I can doggy paddle, but I can't really swim right? I can get myself around in water like this much, but as soon as something else happens, like I can't help anybody else out of a situation because that's gonna put me in a situation where I'm not living through it.

Yeah. Yeah. I'm just not strong enough. It's like knowing your boundaries is one thing. I'm not the, I'm gonna go rescue that person [00:16:00] because for sure they need my help with all the people here. Now we're gonna make sure somebody who knows how to swim goes after them to make sure that they get the help they need.

And I don. Or they don't die in the process. You know the smart things to do.

Speaker 4: Yeah.

Speaker 3: But at the same time, you can turn around and tell yourself, oh, I can't call three people today about my services because they won't listen to me, or they won't answer the phone. So do it anyway. Call the three people. Leave messages if you have to.

At least you did something and it may come back at you.

Speaker 4: Yep.

Speaker 3: Life is a challenge that we all have to get through, and if you put your own roadblocks in place, you're killing your own advancement. You are not gonna be able to do as well in your business. You're not gonna be able to do as well in your personal life.

You're just not gonna be able to do as well as you could have [00:17:00] if you had stopped thinking of yourself as less than.

Speaker 2: So Nikki, I have a question for you actually, if you don't mind me asking around mindset and limiting beliefs. How do you is, and I think this is where people get stuck.

They think they have limiting belief and they say, okay, I know I need to call three prospects today, but I don't, but then they don't and they procrastinate on it. And so they procrastinate on it because they don't want to have the rejection, they don't want to have someone feel angry at them for calling or they don't wanna feel made to be feel stupid or, whatever the list of reasons is.

That people don't wanna do it. So you have a very strong mindset and the belief in yourself that you really can do anything except for swim and move correctly.

Speaker 3: So have you always had a mindset this strong?

Oh, no. No. Not at all. Back in [00:18:00] my life has been one big trauma after another. And back in 2010, something bad happened and I lost my mind.

I was pretty much comatose for a couple years. Like I was going through the motions uhhuh, but my brain wasn't online and I was going to therapy, I was trying to come out of it. And so it wasn't until I was in Maryland and I could breathe again because of course the situation before that was not good either.

But once I could breathe again for at least a minute and realize that I was okay, I was out of that situation and I needed to start thinking of the next steps. And I realized that my brain was starting to come back online now that I wasn't in a trauma filled constant, leery of movement type thing.

Then I realized that I could do more as my brain started coming back online. It's that's how I [00:19:00] picture it, because it shattered. Like it was bad enough that my mental health completely shattered tiny little pieces and. As I worked in Maryland and in Texas towards being better at being me, those pieces started to fuse back together again, and I could do more.

I could be more. And I realized very firmly that I had to put a wall between me and suicide so that I didn't even contemplate doing that anymore. Medications helped as well. I'm not gonna lie, but I have a wall where normal, not normal, but people with depression or suicidal thoughts they don't build up that wall.

And I'm not saying it's their fault. They don't, but not a lot of people tell them that they can. And so I built a wall around it. I am not gonna be my mother. I am not going to give trauma to somebody else by them finding my [00:20:00] body. Let's be nice to people type deal. So I have a thick wall that I have built around that idea that means I won't do it.

And once I built a thick enough wall that like no matter how much my brain backslid, I still couldn't even contemplate that. And I started going to other things. What is the next thing that I need to buffer myself? And that is the feeling of being so you can feel alone or lonely at any time.

You can be in a room full of people and feel them, it has nothing to do with that. But I had this feeling that I was always alone, that nobody was ever gonna care about me.

I had to build a wall or to push that up, to say you are worth it. No. People may not care, but you're still worth it type deal. So I don't come from a place of, I've never had [00:21:00] this happen to me. I come from a place where I've had it happen to me over and over again, and I had to do something to live.

Because I don't want to it. Look, if I die tomorrow, then I die tomorrow. I really don't care. But it's not gonna be by my hand. It's not gonna be my fault that somebody finds my body.

Speaker 2: I think that's a really I just think it shows how much resiliency that you have on your journey. 'cause I don't know your full story but I know that there are people who have experienced not a lot of trauma and are not able to foster that mindset for themselves. So I think it's incredible that you are able to do that and are at a place now where you know your strength and you know your worth despite the things that have happened in the past.

And I think that's an important thing to show is that we like, on some level, have a choice. We can choose how we show up and [00:22:00] how we let things in the past affect us and how they're not going to affect us. And I think sometimes people get stuck in that because we have emotional needs and I didn't create these emotional needs, but there are six of them.

There are four primary needs that we need, like air, food, and water. And there certainty and other words for certainty are safety, comfort, and control. And then there's uncertainty. Because as much as we like that safety and that comfort and that control, we also like variety and, stimulation. And then there's also significance, knowing that we matter and then there's love and connection and those go hand in hand.

Connection is easier. It's safer. It doesn't require vulnerability the way that love does. But we can connect with ourselves internally which you've done a resoundingly amazing job of doing. And then we can also get external communication with other people. But like an internal way of connecting is you could meditate or focus on your breath.

That's an internal way of [00:23:00] connection. And so those are the four primary needs that we need, like air, food, and water. And we will violate our values to get those needs met and basically do whatever it takes. But then there are two fulfillment needs, which are growth and contribution. And we will not do whatever it takes to get those needs met.

So oftentimes we get stuck in this place of this limiting belief of we'll just say procrastination because it gives us, that feeling of certainty. But then it also gives us that feeling of significance. 'cause we can convince ourselves like. That, that we are, that we matter, that we're worth it.

So it's I don't have to do this right now because if I do this, then I'm gonna mess up and then I won't be important. And then, so it gives us that dual thing. It gives us the certainty and it gives us the con significance. But it can also give us the uncertainty because we can pick a million things to procrastinate on, so we might not be procrastinating on the same thing every day.

And so we will do that because it's meeting those four primary needs at a very high level. And so a lot of people have a hard time [00:24:00] realizing that's the pattern that they're running and why they're doing it. So it's never really about, it's never really about the what. It's always about the why.

And the why usually comes back to those four primary needs. And so I think because you have such a high level of resiliency, you were able to, in that, in your healing process, you've been able to, give yourself this certainty that you needed. You've been able to give yourself uncertainty as well, but you've also been able to fill the significance piece and the love and connection piece.

And so it's allowed you to grow and contribute. And so I just think it's a really amazing thing because not a lot of people are able to do that. Even with therapy or medication, they're still not able to get on the other, like fully on the other side of it.

Speaker 3: There are days when I don't feel like I'm fully on the other side of it, but it's, for me, everybody talks about having boundaries with the people around them.[00:25:00]

I learned I had to have boundaries inside my own head because I didn't wanna start crying at the drop of a hat again, or I didn't want to freak out because, and visibly freak out because there was an old man near me. You don't get to pick your triggers, but you get to sometimes pick how visibly you are around them.

Yeah. I see. I still run into old men because unfortunately this planet has a fricking ton of them.

Speaker 4: Yes.

Speaker 3: But I don't visibly react. I know I'm uncomfortable on the inside. I still do not like being around them, but I can be Yeah. To network to be at church 'cause geez, go to church and expect there to not be one.

So I can be around people. That doesn't mean that I trust them. It doesn't mean that I'm gonna go sit next to them and ask them how their day's going or their week is. Yeah. No, and it's not that I don't care, like I care [00:26:00] about people in general, but I have a severe thing when it comes to that type of person because of something done to me.

Do I know that it's not all old people? Yes. Has it been proven that it could be more than just the one I thought? Yes.

Yes. So I stay away from people. I do my best to stay away from people when I have to. And if I have to be near them, I just make sure I know where they are and where their hands are at all times.

But I still don't visibly start crying or shaking or like trying to hunch down into a hole. Like I don't do any of the visible things that a lot of people do when it comes to being severely triggered, because standing next to an old dude is pretty severely triggering for me. Yeah. But I don't do that kind of thing because I've worked enough to know that you can't do that in public just because some old dude decided he wanted candy and [00:27:00] you're standing in front of it.

Speaker 2: Yeah. And and I think as we go on, as we go on healing journeys, there comes a point in time like as we learn, what our triggers are. It's when you're triggered, there's a pattern that happens. And so it's, that circumstance, that trigger, and then we make a meaning when that happens.

And then it creates thoughts and feelings and actions, and then it gives us a result. And so you've been able to dissect that pattern and adjust the meaning that you're making in that moment, which shows that you are now at a place of conscious competency. So there's four different levels, and I always draw a blank on what they are, but basically I think it's unconscious incompetence, meaning like you don't know what you don't know. And you get to conscious incompetence where you know what you don't know, and then you get to unconscious competence where you don't know what you do know, if that makes sense. And then the last is conscious competence where you know what you know.[00:28:00]

And so you've done a really great job of going on this journey and you've learned all these different steps. So when, the goal of the healing journey is to break the patterns that are no longer serving you. You do that and it's like the old vinyl records, when you scratch those records, they don't play the same anymore.

And so that's the goal in all of this work is to scratch the record so it doesn't play the same anymore. And that takes you around that level of competency. And so therefore then we don't go when we are triggered, we don't go as deep into the trigger. We don't get triggered as often and then we also don't stay in that triggered state as long.

So you just really, Nick, you're like a great example of what it looks like when you've done the work and you've learned the triggers and you've learned how to scratch the record. You like Chef's Kiss on your journey.

Speaker 3: It was not easy. No. I don't want anybody to think that I got that or she said that, or you said that [00:29:00] because I'm great and I've never gone through anything.

I have gone through a lot that nobody will, not everybody will ever know about. There's a lot of stuff I've shared on this podcast. There's a lot of stuff I have not shared on this podcast and I guarantee you. This is one of those topics that I did not share. And so it's not easy. It's not easy to do the days of crying and wondering why it happened to you.

It's not easy when you figure out, okay, maybe I'm not like this perfect person. I thought it was, and some of it could have been my fault, but there's still others who were to blame because you didn't do whatever it is, right? There are the days when even though you know that you have taken on as much responsibility as you can, you start trying to take on more responsibility because you think, oh, it's all my fault now 'cause I did it all.

When you didn't do any of it, it was somebody else and you just got lumped in [00:30:00] because you were standing in the right place. So there are days when you feel it all. There are days, and that's as an adult, half of the stuff that happened to me before I turned 18.

And I can guarantee you I still, especially the old man thing, there are still days when if an old guy comes to me, if he touches me, I'm about to lose my stuff. Because yes, I know he is not the one that did it, but I also know I didn't give him permission to touch me.

And that's a big thing for me.

You don't touch me without my permission. I have been touched way too much without my permission. And now you have to ask, I ask my friend for hugs if I want one. I don't just walk up to people and grab at them. Why do other people do that? I don't know. I'm not a hugger. Yeah. I've seen people have problems with the whole hugging thing because in their brain they have to, that's how they show you their love.[00:31:00]

Yes. And I get that. I get it. I really do. Except if no matter how much love you have in your heart, if you grab me and pin my arms, I'm not gonna have any love for you. You can have all the love you want, but you've disappeared it in me because you have gone against what I've asked. You have pinned my arms, which is a hundred percent the wrong thing to do.

And you may get a reaction out of me if I'm in the right state of mind or maybe the wrong state of mind. Yeah. If I'm already having a bad day and you pin my arms, this just might be a bad day for everybody.

Speaker 4: Yeah.

Speaker 3: So it's. It's not easy there. I still, even with what I know about myself now, I still have days where I'm looking at the ceiling going, why am I still here?

Like it should be over with by now, type thing, [00:32:00] but it's not, and I'll be here until it is.

Speaker 2: Yeah. And I think that's, a lot of people go into healing journeys. Let's be real. People go into entrepreneurship. Thinking it's gonna be easy.

because they see people, making tiktoks and reels about, oh, I healed myself in three days, or I made six figures in three months.

And so none of that is true. It's all a journey and it all takes time. And if it were really that easy, everybody would be doing it, but it's not easy at all. And so I think that's one reason people have limiting beliefs is because they go into it thinking it's gonna be easy, and it knocks them on their tush, and they're not prepared for that.

So that they think oh, there must be something wrong with me because so and so is doing it, and they're doing it, and they're doing it, and they're doing it, and I'm the only one who's not doing it. But what they don't see is that people are struggling behind the scenes. I've been on my [00:33:00] healing journey not since 2010.

Really my healing journey started in 2014 when I left my teaching career. 'cause I was burnt out and I thought that I was gonna teach forever. But I had trauma, various traumas all through childhood and into my twenties. And so I went in, I thought I was gonna teach forever and I didn't.

That's when my healing journey started. And I naively thought okay, I'm gonna go to therapy because I also was having suicidal thoughts and didn't want that to be the legacy for my children. 'cause they were very little at that time. And then I thought, oh, maybe I could just run away. But I also didn't want that to be the legacy either.

So I was like, okay, I clearly need to go talk to someone. And I started therapy thinking she was gonna say, don't worry Kim, it's just three easy steps to get over this, identity crisis of leaving your teaching career. And it was so not three easy steps, it was years. And I thought okay, it's three easy steps, it's gonna be done.

No problem. And then off I go. But [00:34:00] what I didn't realize is that she was going to bring up stuff from childhood and not really give me deep tools and strategies. It was very surface level tools like carry invisible cooking spray in your pocket so you can spray the spray yourself and let the codependency slide away.

Or a carry of visible scissors in your pocket, so the strings of codependency, you can just cut them away and you feel them attached.

Speaker 3: You do realize I arrived in that therapist's face and told her she can take her invisible cookie spray right to her eyeballs. I don't do no invisible stuff for me.

Speaker 2: What? Yeah. So and that was the thing. It was like, first of all, I didn't even know I was being codependent. So that's why it's never the what, it's always about the why. Like, why was I being codependent? How was I being triggered? What was the pattern that I was running when I was being codependent?

So that was really what needed to happen, not just carry invisible cooking, spray and invisible scissors. And, I tried, I really tried it. And when it didn't work, I went back to her and was like, this is not [00:35:00] working. And she then was like basically like you can take a pill.

That's your only choice. And for myself, couldn't do that because I had already, saw myself as a failure for leaving my teaching career after six years. And so then she would get frustrated with me. I'm giving you the tools. I'm giving you the tools. And at that point there were times where I was like, I think I'm all done and I think I'll just feel, messed up for the rest of my life, but knew I needed to keep pushing forward.

Speaker 3: I can tell you there's such a thing as a bad therapist and it seems like you got a doozy of one. Yeah, I've had some in my past. I've had one Tell me. But you've just been through so much trauma no matter what I said to her, which is honestly infuriating.

Speaker 2: Yeah. You're like, tell something.

Speaker 3: Exactly.

Speaker 2: Like I'm paying you to tell me what I know.

This isn't it.

Speaker 3: I would've looked for a different therapist. I have on a couple of [00:36:00] occasions gone, to the people and been like, yeah, I can't be with this one. Yeah. Just because you personality sometimes don't match and her telling you to, I don't know anybody telling me to carry a can of invisible anything is going to get a smart alec reply in abundance because I'm excuse me.

No, I don't do invisible try doing actual things to help me. I had people do the journaling thing. I had one when I was a kid. Tell me to punch a teddy bear. The only punch I've ever felt sorry for was the one that I did to that poor teddy bear that did not need that. So I wanna right back to the walls.

It was fine. So there sometimes people say things and they're stupid, you have a lot of book learning when it comes with therapy and stuff like that, right?

Speaker 2: Yep.

Speaker 3: It takes a couple years for of a person being a therapist to realize what being a therapist actually [00:37:00] needs. Some of them can get it sooner if they wanted it their entire life and have actually done the research and have actually, maybe done things during college to actually connect with the people behind what they're talking about.

But I like the people who are a little bit older who maybe aren't, I'm not saying the ancient ones, let's not go 80 years old or nothing. You want them to be alive long enough to help you through the situation. But the same time I go towards like the middle aged people because they've had time.

If they are a bad therapist. Obviously you can still walk away, but there are great therapists at that level because they've been there, they've talked to a lot of different people, they've helped a lot of different people. I have a therapist, my main therapist is great. Do you know what she doesn't do?

Ask me how I feel about something [00:38:00] because that just would piss me off, so like we have conversations that have nothing to do with anything and then I'll connect it back because my brain does connections apparently to something that's happened and maybe that's why my mood has been off.

And she just sits there going, you should write a book. And I went, yeah, I'm doing a podcast. I thought that would help. Yeah. Obviously I'm an idiot, that's beside the point.

Speaker 2: First one is a book. Is a book in your future.

Speaker 3: Probably not today, but probably.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Tell me. Yeah. And no, honestly, the therapist that I had was not a new therapist, had been in the profession for double digits, like over 10 years but just was not a good fit.

But the gift is that she did tell me to try yoga and meditation, and that was what opened my eyes to like the MINDBODY connection, MINDBODY and Spirit Connection, because for so long I lived in my head. And so it was just all crazy thoughts going around and around.

And I had [00:39:00] stopped really listening to my whole self. And so that was, I'll say that was the gift that she gave me, was saying, oh, you should try yoga and meditation to help release some of the anxiety and the stress and the overwhelm that I was feeling. And the, I, I guess depression would fit.

And so that really was what set me on the path of healing with, holistic things and coaching. But I'm always like relieved or like thankful to know that there are like still good therapists out there. Because I feel like they can be few and far between and like sometimes hard to find.

Speaker 3: Yeah. Sometimes they can be. When I was in Washington State, I think I had 12 different therapist because I would work with them for a couple months and then they'd get that I got an opportunity to work outside of this system and I'm gonna take it. And so they'd leave and I'd have to have another one.

In fact, the last one they gave me, they were like she's not going anywhere. She has no plans to leave at any time. [00:40:00] And yeah, the week before I left town, I think it was, she told me in her office that she would only be there for three more weeks and then I'd have to give me another therapist. But I ended up getting out myself

Speaker 2: yeah. But I think it goes back to that choice, but it also goes to show that, like not everything is gonna work the first time you try it. And so you have to keep going. And you can't let, sometimes it's easy to say oh my God, this feels awful, or this is hard, or, I don't like this.

And so you just wanna throw in the towel and give up. But then if you don't, if you don't keep going, then you're gonna stay stuck in where you were and maybe even backslide. And that's not gonna allow you to, A, reclaim your power from the situation, or B continue to do what you're on this planet to do.

Speaker 3: In my opinion, you should work harder on yourself than your biggest critic works to criticize you. So if they can criticize you every minute of the day. [00:41:00] However many times that they do, you have to work just as hard to think of something else, to do, something else, to work on getting better so that you can finally shut Uncle Harry up.

Speaker 2: Yes. I love that. That's good. That's good. And I think if we don't do that, then, we set ourselves up, and I don't wanna use the word fail because really, like if you break down, fail, it's like really a first attempt in learning. But I'll use the word stifle. We stifle ourselves and then we don't allow ourselves other opportunities to, to test the waters or to have different experiences or, things like that.

So I think it's important to allow pivot points to say, okay, this isn't working the way that I thought it was or would, so I'm gonna try something else and be okay with the uncomfortableness of trying something else.

Speaker 3: Yeah. Because. If you are criticized by whoever you're [00:42:00] criticized by and you crumble one day, they're only gonna get louder.

But if you get bigger and you move away, or you just start your own life and you start ignoring them, then their voice is gonna get smaller in your head because you hear them even when they're not there.

That does not mean you're hearing voices. It means you're hearing that criticism every time you even think to make a mistake along the lines of what he teases about you, he or she.

Speaker 4: Yeah.

Speaker 3: When they make that decision to try to tear you down, you're hearing that the next time something almost happens, or next time you make a mistake at work, you're thinking, oh, uncle Harry's gonna start telling me I'm a failure again. And that can make you feel worse. Instead go, okay, I made this mistake.

How do I not make this mistake again? How did I make this mistake? How can I make it better and how do I not make it again?

[00:43:00] And do that every single time something comes up. Eventually. First of all, eventually you're gonna knock Mr. Harry outta your life because he is not beneficial to you anymore.

And second of all, you're gonna have an armored skin basically, where if somebody does try to come at you, somebody new tries to come at you with that same thing, you're not crumbling and being, why would you say that to me? And crying all over them, right? Because they're just like, so you have that time, you have that armor where you're like, that is not something I'm, I can stand.

I have a boundary against that. So if that's the way you're gonna treat me, I would prefer you not be in my life.

Speaker 2: Yeah. And I think that happens too. It's we, every time we fall down that voice, we hear that voice, and that makes the limiting belief feel more true. And what starts out, out as a habit then becomes our identity. So people will say oh, I'm a people pleaser, [00:44:00] or I'm a procrastinator, I'm an overachiever. And it's like when you say an I am statement like that mean, like that's, you think that is who you are at your core. But oftentimes because we have these voices, metaphorical voices playing in the background, that's actually like not, you're not a procrastinator or a people pleaser or overachiever at your core.

That's who you are to be able to operate in the world and survive. So that's like your survival identity. And when we stop saying I am, and instead say I'm running a pattern of. Then it quiets the voice and it allows us to see that the, all the evidence that we've been gathering for our whole life about being a people or overachiever, perfectionist, or whatever is outdated. It's, expired evidence. And when we can quiet that voice, it allows us to start gathering new evidence that supports that. Were actually the opposite of that. We're not a people pleaser, we're not a perfectionist, we're not a overachiever.

We're, whatever else it is that we choose to be. So when [00:45:00] I was doing an afterschool program, I had a little girl and she had this belief about herself that she was fat and she wasn't. And so all the evidence that she had started gathering, so it's called the table of belief. So like the tabletop is your belief, and then all the table legs are what support that belief.

And so a lot of the table legs that she had actually nothing to do with her physical appearance. It was more of things that she heard other people saying. And then so what we have to do to reframe that limiting belief is you have to actually create a new table by breaking down all the old table legs.

So if she had five table legs on the outdated belief, she needed at least five, if not more, table legs on the new table. So I asked her, what would you rather be instead? And she said she would rather be healthy. And so we came up with all the evidence, new table legs that supported why she was healthy.

And she had way more table legs for being healthy. It was because she liked fruits, she [00:46:00] liked vegetables, she played softball, she did gymnastics, exercised, she had all these things and it was just having that visual image for her to see that she actually had more table legs for healthy than the other way was enough for her to shift.

And she asked, can I have a copy of this? Can I have my table picture so I can hang it up in my room? And she hung it up above her desk so that she had that visual reminder of what she actually believed instead, which was actually more relevant than that old, outdated belief.

Speaker 3: Yeah. We can do amazing things when we understand that we are not what people have said.

Even if they weren't talking about us and we thought they were talking about us, but we can do amazing things when we can finally get rid of the ghosts.

Speaker 4: Yeah.

Speaker 3: We get rid of those, the little voices in our heads that are going again, I do not hear voices. I do not want [00:47:00] to end up in the, on the floor for the mental people with a jacket on.

I don't need an I Love me jacket. The voices I'm talking about are the quieter ones. The ones where if somebody says, you are stupid, you crumble because you've been told that your entire life. I grew up in, so in special ed, you till eighth grade. Do you not believe I wasn't called stupid a hundred billion times a day.

Let somebody now call me stupid. The attitude that comes out of my mouth two seconds later, like without thought, is pretty cool because it used to make me cower. And because I was stupid, I am stupid. Like I'm in special ed, of course I'm stupid. Why wouldn't I be stupid? But then I got out of it and I was doing well, and in fact I was reading better than a lot of people who had never been in special ed.

So it came to a point where I went, ah ha, I can read ha. And you can push the voices away. Physical appearance is harder to do. [00:48:00] I have a larger type nose. I was made fun of when I was in high school, middle school, high school. Does that affect me today? Not unless somebody says something about a picture of mine or something.

So that's usually a, I don't have to deal with that anymore 'cause I don't, I'm not in all that many pictures, but the little things can create big problems. And sometimes we push those big problems down because we don't wanna deal with them today. They're too much to deal with right now.

I have to wait until I'm calmer, saner smarter. There's less going, I'm gonna tell you now, nothing is ever going to be commerce sayers. Nothing's ever going to be the perfect moment for you to get rid of a fear that you have. You just need to do the work anyway.

Speaker 2: Yes. Yes. There's a spectrum of pain relief and pleasure, and I [00:49:00] think people are they so desperately wanna get out of that place of being in pain.

And so we often think oh, if I'm not in pain then I'm in pleasure. But we're not, if you're not in pain, you're in relief. And then if you're like, and you can slide from pain to relief and back to pain again. Or you can go from pain to relief, to pleasure, back to relief, back to pleasure, back to relief, back to pain.

It's like a spectrum that's always moving. It's never static, but I think we will avoid the pain so much to just stay in that period of relief. So when people say oh, I'll do it tomorrow, or I'll do it when I. Have less on my plate, or I'll do it when the sun is shining. It's because right now they're in that period of relief and they'll just stay there because it's easier to deal with relief than it is to actually dealing with the pain.

Because oftentimes we've lived with the pain for so long that we don't know what's on the other side of the pain. Like we know what life is like now, and while it feels bad and not great, we at least know what we're dealing with because this is our norm. And so to get to a place where like [00:50:00] you're on the other side of that pain and you're in pleasure more, that's scary.

'cause we're not used to living in that place. And so it's what's the lesser of two evils? Sometimes the lesser evil is the pain because it's what we know.

Speaker 3: It's very true. But unless we wanna stay where we're at, which I don't think everybody, anybody should want really. No. It doesn't matter the day, what do they say about, weightlifting. Like you have to do it every day, no matter how you feel. Yeah. In order to get those jacked up body you also probably need to do some steroids, but let's not get into controversial topics and they have to lift a certain amount of weights every single day in order for their body to appreciate the fact that they can lift X amount of weights.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 3: Then if they don't, they get weird. I don't, they get weird if they don't exercise on the days that they're supposed to or whatever, they can knock them out of [00:51:00] rhythm. So you're basically doing the same thing, except your weights don't weigh 120 pounds. They weigh whatever the consequences of the action of somebody else towards you was.

If you were. In bad situations, I'm not gonna start listing them because then I have to bleep them out later anyway. If this is where you're at, if you've been in bad situations, you have to deal with all of the trauma and all of the, how did I get into this situation?

When did it get worse? When did I see that it was worse? When did I get out? Why did I get out? Should I have gotten out sooner? Those are all things you're gonna have to answer for yourself before you can come out of that. And that's gonna weigh about as much as one of those weightlifters

Speaker 2: yes. But each time you do the work, the weight gets lighter.

Just like when you are with lifting weights, you start off at maybe eight pounds and you do that long enough, and then the eight pounds feels light, and then you can move up [00:52:00] to the 10 pounds, and then you lift that long enough and then that feels light. And it's the same way. It's just, it's like equating it to, when you are traveling and you pack your bag with all your stuff, and then you go on vacation, you use your shampoo, you use your conditioner do whatever.

And so when you come home, your bag is lighter because you've used the stuff. And so it's the same way with doing the work, the more the work I left

Speaker 3: your shorts behind and Right.

Speaker 2: Although when I travel, my bag comes back heavier because I always end up buying souvenirs. But metaphorically speaking, if you just go to the grocery store and you fill up your bag with groceries and you come home as you're unloading the bag, the bag gets lighter. So it's same thing with doing the work. The more you do the work. The lighter the luggage gets. And then you won't need that rolling luggage anymore.

You'll, be able to carry a suitcase in your hand and then you do more work and you'll be able to get to a backpack and then you'll be able to get to a, a smaller bag and a smaller bag until you're really not weighted down by the past.

Speaker 3: And again, it takes time and it takes effort and you have to [00:53:00] want to be better.

You can't go into it going, okay, somebody else told me I have to do this, so I'm gonna do this because, what happens then? Absolutely nothing. Because you're not actually doing the work. You're pretending you're doing the work and there's a difference and your body knows the difference.

Speaker 2: Yes. But I think we do that sometimes in our businesses too. Which is

Speaker 5: Hey everyone. Thanks for sticking with us. Before we dive into our next topic, I just wanna take a quick moment to remind you two who like this video, subscribe to our channel and hit that notification bell. That way you'll always be the first to know when a new episode drops and we want to hear from you.

What topics are you most excited about? Drop your thoughts in. The comments below. Your feedback helps us create content that you love. We've got some exciting stuff coming your way, so don't miss out. Now let's switch gears and jump into our next discussion. I.

Speaker 3: a good segue 'cause we're calling [00:54:00] to switch to delegation. And effective hiring.

Okay if you are a business owner, small business owner, entrepreneur, big business owner, you have had to hire people. You have had times when you've had to delegate to somebody else.

How easy or how hard that is, is a reflection of you, not the person you're giving the information to. Some people like to be in control. They want to know or do every single step of said job so that they have it perfect and they know if they've messed up, it's their fault. They're also not gonna grow as quickly as anybody else because they're not willing to let people help them.

You have people who don't know what they're doing on the regular [00:55:00] because they're that kind of a boss, and so now they don't know how to delegate. They don't know how to hire the people they need to delegate to, and that's a whole nother kettle of fish that you end up in. And then you have the good bosses, the ones who understand who needs each project because it fits them perfectly.

And so they know when to delegate, they know who to delegate to, and they're doing a great job. If you have that unicorn, keep it as long as you can because they're gonna get hired. They're gonna get promoted above you and into different places where you can't touch. But those are the unicorns, the ones that are really good at doing it.

Now, when we delegate, what do you think the point is that people should delegate [00:56:00] when in the timeline?

Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think it depends honestly, on what it is that they're willing to delegate.

I found in my own journey of delegation with my virtual assistant, I was delegating the things that I didn't wanna deal with because I didn't trust that I could do them.

So like the biggest example of social media, I really don't like social media. I don't like being on it. I don't like the content creation piece. It's just not my jam. So I was like, oh, and I convinced myself, I was like, oh, social media is not my zone of genius. My zone of genius is doing the client work, so I'm going to delegate this social media stuff, so my VA so that I can actually focus on the things that are my zone of genius.

But what I did not realize was that she cannot share my message the same way that I can. I realized that I have to do my own social media as much as I don't like it. So that, because I'm the face of my business, so I'm the one who needs to be present. And so I've realized that I actually can delegate [00:57:00] the things to her that are not my zone of genius, but that are like more behind the scenes things.

So like doing podcast research for podcast appearances or guest blogging or like Facebook groups to be a part of things like that, that are less I don't wanna use the word important 'cause that's not right, but like a lower ticket item that doesn't have as much consequence if it's not done the way that I feel like it should be done or I need it to be done.

Speaker 3: Just for you as a FYI type thing one of the things I do for some of my clients is I do their consistent. Posts to make sure that they have something on their posts once or twice a day that has something to do with their company, right? They, on the other hand, are the ones that speak in their voice and add events that they're going to, networking stuff they've done, just different things happening around [00:58:00] them so that there is their voice still happening.

So you can have your VA help with your social media in a place from like you give four topic type things. So for like my insurance person, I do homeowners car owners, I business owners, and then businesses with cars. Those are the four topics that I use. For twice a day, posting every day so that she has something consistently there for when she has events or something else.

And she wants to add a piece so that she can do the more personalized stuff. There's always that kind of a thing.

Speaker 2: Yes. And so I actually did try that and it still wasn't quite working so sometimes the content, where's your

Speaker 3: VA from?

Speaker 2: She is from Venezuela.

Speaker 3: That might be part of the problem.

Speaker 2: What was happening was that she was doing a good job sometimes with the actual content, or I would give her the content for those consistency [00:59:00] posts, but then it was the images that weren't right.

So like she was doing script and you couldn't read the script, and so it was just a train wreck. I just felt we had tried several different ways to adjust the social media aspect of it and it really just wasn't working. And then I had, someone actually asked me if my account was hacked and I was like, Nope, it wasn't hacked.

But thanks for asking. So no, I think too.

Speaker 3: Oh van. The only thing I've done wrong is I forgot to check one or two of the images for the weird hands or eyes and an AI image.

Speaker 4: Yes. And I,

Speaker 3: that got slipped by, but that's pretty much the extent of that. But so I also work with people in the US when I delegate to other people.

Not that I give them social media stuff to do as of yet. Yeah. But I give, so I do not delegate anything that [01:00:00] I would not want to do. Ah, okay. Or that I could not do. I have to be able to do it before I can turn it over to somebody else, right?

Speaker 4: Yes.

Speaker 3: I have to have my voice solid on social media before I go handing it over to somebody else and trying to explain what I'm doing.

Kind of a thing, right? And if I hand something over to somebody, I know what to do. I know what needs to be done. I'm just not clicking that many things that many times to get it done. That's not piss me off on clicking. So

Speaker 2: yeah, so that was a learning curve I think for me was to realize okay, and the thing is I could do social media, I just didn't wanna do it.

Because I just felt like it wasn't the best use of my time. But I was at a summit like a month or so ago, and there was a gal there who was a turnaround. Coach. So she basically goes in and she helps businesses who are failing and she helps turn them around so that they become profitable again.

And she had a [01:01:00] section in her presentation about delegation, and I was like, Ooh, I'm interested to hear what she has to say about this. And she broke it down into topics like that were, she used money. So is it a thousand dollars task, a hundred dollars task, a $10 task, or a $1 task?

And so to use that kind of as a guide to say okay for if you could, put a money figure on it, how much would this task be worth in your business? And use that as the delegation key to say okay, yes, I can delegate this, or I should not delegate this. And I thought that was a really interesting take to, to look at it as monetizing the task itself.

Because then I was like, oh, I see now why I social media was like more of a thousand dollar task than a $1 task the way that I was treating it.

Speaker 3: Yeah. I know somebody who does work with VAs to do social media tasks and she tells them, [01:02:00] do these ones as word ones, but make sure the words are, capitals or at least a readable text, don't you?

I like using some script. I am not gonna lie, if you can't read cursive, do not come to me because I don't care. I'm going to probably use a cursive word in what I write because I think it makes a point. Yes, I like

Speaker 4: it.

Speaker 3: I love it. And if not everybody can read it, it's not my fault. I did not teach them.

And I like it, but I also don't use the script where you can barely read it because it's just like this. Because yes, nobody can read that. Nobody, I don't use the big curly ones either when it comes to typing because it's not real calligraphy and nobody can read it. I use the more, it's just a cursive word, like with plenty of space in between, the piece or [01:03:00] whatever.

So like it's readable. Yeah. It's just cursive. Yeah. And I have had some people go it's cursive. I don't think everybody would read it. Can you take that off? And I'm like, no. And then I'll change it, obviously. But look, most of the people I do business with, and they are customers, are in the older range, and they can read cursive.

Speaker 2: Yeah. So I think that, goes back to knowing your audience too.

Speaker 3: Yeah. Obviously you're not going to, with a bunch of, 18, 19 year olds start doing cursive and expect them to read it because they took cursive outta schools.

According to this, there are seven steps of delegation. Okay. You're gonna define what success look like. Looks like deadlines, milestones, quality.

Any other type things that you want to happen in that project, right? If it's social media, say you're gonna wanna see more likes and not have people thinking I had a [01:04:00] stroke. You know the easy things to do you're gonna choose the right person for the job. You now I am me. I will tell you straight if I am being stupid or not, but in this case, some VAs from some parts of the world do not understand social media, like somebody who lives in the US would.

And there are VAs in the US you might have to actually pay them a little bit more. So they may be outside of your box for the moment. But there is a difference in the quality of some things. I also think my friend has one from the Philippines who does. Excellent work too. So it all depends again, just like it would in the US it depends on the person you're looking at.

So you wanna make sure that you have a system in place to make sure that they can do what they say they can do. Maybe test them. Say, I want a seven day thing here, your four topics, [01:05:00] go get me some content. And what they come back with, you can go, yeah, I don't think this is gonna work. I'm gonna have to teach you too much.

Maybe I'll have some other stuff for you or that kind of thing. Communicate expectations, clearly time, cost, quality, all of it. Because you may think that you are working on a thousand dollars project, but you've only communicated to your VA or whoever's helping you that they're doing a $100 project and that can cause quality mismatches and mistakes and things like that.

So being upfront about what's happening is very important. I think that if you hire somebody and you're not willing to talk to them, you have a problem. Mostly because I get hired by people and they're like, okay, we're gonna do this together. And then they don't talk to me for two months, and then I'm asking if they're gonna keep paying me and not [01:06:00] actually doing anything.

Communication is key if you're working with somebody else, because I don't know what you want. I can think I know what you want all day long, but unless you have used your words like a grownup and told me what's happening or what you want to happen, I don't know. Not really. And even sometimes if you think you've said what you know and what you want, you're not speaking clearly enough.

So I still don't know what you want. So more questions will be upcoming. Okay, so this says let the staff member plan the project. So if they're the ones going to do the social media, have a way for you to check in and accept a post, or not accept a post before it's due, but give them the time to be creative type deal. That will look different for different projects, for different people, for lots of different things.

A lot of this is [01:07:00] very vague, so I'm not sure I agree with seven steps because they have to be taken differently. Review the plan together. So if you get to 0.1 where you're supposed to be able to see X and you go with, you have your meeting and you talk to them and you're like, okay, we're meeting on planned puppies today.

Are you at the point where you're supposed to be for this? And they go, wait, I'm supposed to be at a point on this today. It's a couple of problems. Either you didn't communicate or they didn't listen. And both of those can be true at the same time. 'cause maybe you communicated and she didn't listen or maybe you thought you communicated something and she didn't listen 'cause you didn't actually do it.

It says set milestones and check in regularly. So obviously you're gonna have deadlines. Like I said. If you're gonna do the check in on [01:08:00] their posts before they go live, then you obviously have to go check on them before they go live. And there's gotta be a deadline. So say Monday the fifth has to be reviewed by the 31st of the month before, right?

To give time for it to be yes. Locked in. That's the post for that day. Then provide access to resources and support, be available for questions, even if it's just by text.

There are those were the seven. So for me, some of that can be considered as micromanaging, being too Inuit. But basically if you communicate what you want, when you want it, all that kind of thing, and you know that they know you can have a great thing. I work with two different people now, the one lady I've worked with for years, and I can literally go to her and go, [01:09:00] dude, I got another clicky thing for you.

And she's great, I love those. And I just tell her what she needs to do and she'll get it back to me as soon as she can. 'cause I don't do cliquey.

The last thing I had them, I had actually, I ended up having to have both of them do because the first one, the one I usually use had a lot going on and she wasn't able to finish, so I had to get a different person to do it, and both of them were like, oh yeah, no, it's fine. But you had to go into my calendar, click on an event, see when they were, and then find out when they were scheduled to go live.

My podcast list of people who, when are you going live type thing. And so she did it in three hours. Do you know how long it would've taken me? Eight months and a shot[01:10:00]

because, yeah, no. I don't wanna click on something 17 times to find out the information that I need. I wanna just be able to export it and have it. There's nothing to export there. It was just in my calendar, my stupid fault not doing that again. But that's the thing, right? So any thoughts on that?

Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think having that clear line of communication is super important. And also the milestones. And so through trial and error, 'cause I've had my VA for almost four and a half years. It's been a work in progress. We communicate through WhatsApp just because obviously her number is not a US number.

And WhatsApp has some glitches. So there are times where I don't get notifications from WhatsApp or the other way around. She doesn't get a notification. So then it will be a couple days and we haven't heard from each other. So then we use messenger on Instagram or something like that.

'cause that, we get more regularly. But we've used different [01:11:00] things to help with streamlined communication and the milestone aspect, and to keep the tasks organized, to do the check to check and be like, Hey, what, what do you think about this? Or Could you make changes to this?

And so we used Trello, and you can use the Trello board for free. And that's been helpful. And so I've used that in the past when I had a lot of podcast guests on in the past. I was using a Trello board to keep her in the loop of who was when and what needed to go where and the schedule and all of that.

But then also we have used metrical to schedule posts. And that's helpful because it's a, you can do a lot on the free plan with it, and it tells you what the best times to post are. But it will also schedule posts to TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, and you can specify Facebook business page, Facebook and, sorry, face Facebook's like stories reels or like a static post.

So you can choose what type of content you want scheduled when. So that's been super helpful. So it's just, and there's [01:12:00] so many of these tools out there, so it's like really finding the one that works best for you.

Speaker 3: I use metrical as well. One thing for communication, especially if you have a little group.

So if it was you and Two VAs, or maybe just you and your va, if you've found that other places aren't working as well, there's the thing called pumble. It looks a lot like Slack.

Speaker 4: Okay.

Speaker 3: You could split up your projects into different channels so that you're only talking about that project in a certain panel.

That might help. I think that one is free even. Okay. Don't get me wrong, I haven't seen I worked with somebody last year in May with it, and I haven't used it since. So like I said, I think some of it is free. Some of it you may have to pay for. I don't remember exactly.

Speaker 2: Yeah. But it's amazing how much you can do on a lot of these platforms for free without paying.

And that's super helpful. So yeah, so it's just a matter of really being open to trial and error and figuring out what works best [01:13:00] and what doesn't for whatever the project is. And we've pivoted, so we've also tried Tailwind because that was, we did that before Metrical because it will post to Pinterest and social media excuse me, but Metrical will as well.

Yeah, so it's just, there are so many different platforms out there and really just finding the one that works, but making sure that it's something that's gonna be convenient to use. Because there was one that we tried to use, I don't even remember at this point, and it was really not convenient. Like it was double the work to go in and put all the content in there to do the approval and all of that stuff.

So that one didn't last long.

Speaker 3: Yeah. I don't like things, making it harder to do what I want to do.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Simple. Simple is best.

Speaker 3: Okay, there is an importance when you're working with others, whether you're the manager or you're the business owner who has a va, there's an importance in doing feedback, having people have accountability and celebrating [01:14:00] wins.

Celebrating wins is a duh. You want people to know that. You recognize them, you see what they're doing, and you appreciate it, and yada. I am very happy for those people. I just, I've worked by myself so I don't get celebrated. Nikki ate yourself have accountability. So if there is a mistake made, the correct person is the one saying, yes, I made that mistake.

I won't make it again. Now that I see where I went wrong, type deal. But never in a You did this wrong. How dare you. Why did you even think that was appropriate? I just triggered somebody guaranteed. You never wanna speak to anybody like that. And then feedback. So if they come to you and they ask, Hey, I felt like I did really good on this project, but I didn't get any feedback from you saying that I did good or bad.

And I would really like that. Being able to be an adult and not [01:15:00] yell at them and be, why would you have to come in here for feedback? Yes, let, I'll do that. Give me until tomorrow and I'll have something in your e email or whatever your deadline is. You may need to wait a couple days, but make sure they get something that recognizes, yes, I did say that you did this.

I do know that there were a couple mistakes, A and b. And I'm glad that we were able to work through them and overcome them. But give them a little note of happiness. They may be coming to you for that celebration or that acknowledgement because they're not getting seen in other places.

And if you keep helping them be seen for you, they'll stay where they're at. A lot of people jump jobs because they're treated like crap. Nobody ever acknowledges them. Nobody gives them feedback on what they're doing, but then says they're doing everything wrong. So making those three things a daily effort, a project wide [01:16:00] effort is very important, at least in my book.

Speaker 2: Yes. And I think too, if you have that open line of communication, then giving the feedback is gonna be easier because. It will be something that happens more regularly rather than having to wait, being sure to give the positive feedback along the way, but then having to give the, the feedback of needing improvement won't sting as badly because there will already be that rapport built and there will already be a system in place for feedback in general.

Speaker 3: And don't let your feedback be needs improvement.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. Make sure it's tangible. Something that they can actually act on and, demonstrate improvement with.

Speaker 3: Yes. Because needs improvement just tells them that you're pissed off at them today that all they're gonna get from that. Not that they need to improve anything, but that they need to make you less mad next time.

Yeah. When you are hiring, everybody [01:17:00] gets nervous when they're hiring somebody. Unless they're a corporate person who's done it a bajillion times. But as a small business owner, when I just had to like onboard that new person to help me, that was terrifying for me. Whoa, what am I doing?

Is this the right thing to do? Should I be doing this? I've never worked this, but this, my friend trusts them, so I'm gonna give them the, trust there. Being able to speak with them because I spoke with her and I was like, look, this is how I am. I don't like doing some things and I'm gonna call on you again if you don't mind.

And it's literally going to be something probably cliquey because I don't like cliquey. But being upfront and honest about when you're going to be hiring them, are you hiring them for everyday work 40 hours a week or are you hiring them part-time or are you just hiring them by the job? So I only needed her to do that project right now.

It might be something bigger later, but right now that's all I needed. [01:18:00] So there's different amounts of times that you hire people for this is a per, semi-permanent hire, or this is temporary. You're only going to be working with us for a month, six months, a year, whatever your temporary is.

And make sure that is, a hundred percent fully acknowledged before anybody attempts to hire anybody else, because who wants to be hired on temporarily when they thought they were being hired on semi permanently?

Speaker 4: Yeah.

Speaker 3: So doing that kind of thing you're gonna make mistakes.

If you're a small business owner and you're doing this for the first time, you're gonna get some bad apples. Eventually you will have a big enough network to help you get better people. You will get people that you think are okay because, hey, they're connected to my church, but they're actually not really good for helping you with your business.

You're gonna have those problems. What you have [01:19:00] to do is recognize as soon as possible that is a problem, and get rid of them before it becomes a But I thought you liked everything I was doing. You never said anything before. Let's not do this a year down the line. If when you recognize this, something is a problem, handle it today and not tomorrow.

Speaker 2: Yeah. And I think that too, it's like, because then it doesn't, it breaks down that trust because if you do need to hire them again for something, they're not going to be willing to work with you because they're not gonna be able to believe you. And then if they do okay, give you the benefit of da doubt, again, they might not be invested and they might not do the best job.

Speaker 3: Okay. Thank you for coming. Your information will be in the descriptions below, along with your links